do bitcoin ATMs really suck this much?

[jonald_fyookball]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

[nioc]

15 min video?  I didn't watch it all but scanned thru it which included buying tacos with the purchased btc

The following is a follow up post on the video, no I didn't read it but somebody might be interested.

http://www.tested.com/tech/concepts/460601-where-we-went-wrong-buying-bitcoin-atm/

So how do other btc ATMs work and how should they?

[lomalio]

This video highlights some of the problems that need to be fixed.

[Bizmark13]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

It is very strange. You don't need to do any of those things to buy a soft drink from a vending machine so the same should be true for bitcoins. Are they worried about counterfeit bills or something? I can understand why an ATM might demand ID if payment was done via reversible means or if there was the possibility of card fraud but otherwise, they shouldn't ask for ID, hand scan, photo, phone number, etc.

That being said, once you have the bitcoins in your possession, it should be easy to destroy the link between your ID and your BTC by sending them to a mixing service, right? Or just depositing them in an exchange might do the trick.

[MakeBelieve]

Looks stupid so much hassle to actually buy it from that ATM I'm not sure that all ATM's require all the information from you though.

[ForgottenPassword]

Yes it is ridiculous. Thankfully the bitcoin ATM's I use do NOT require any form of identification, but to fully comply with AML requirements in the US you have to jump through all of these hoops.

It's absolutely ridiculous considering you don't even need to provide your fingerprints when opening a bank account, yet they require them everytime you use a bitcoin ATM.

[counter]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

It is very strange. You don't need to do any of those things to buy a soft drink from a vending machine so the same should be true for bitcoins. Are they worried about counterfeit bills or something? I can understand why an ATM might demand ID if payment was done via reversible means or if there was the possibility of card fraud but otherwise, they shouldn't ask for ID, hand scan, photo, phone number, etc.

That being said, once you have the bitcoins in your possession, it should be easy to destroy the link between your ID and your BTC by sending them to a mixing service, right? Or just depositing them in an exchange might do the trick.

Wow that ATM is a fail of epic proportions.  Why in the world would you ever go threw that process for Bitcoin when you don't have to.  Why would you invest your money into something if you don't have a clue what it is really all about.  

Probably not the best time to get into Bitcoin when you at the bar with your friends and when the price went down 30 dollars I would have canceled the traction and started a brand new one.  That way instead of looking at is as a loss you would see it as a deal, but hey that is just me.

[MakeBelieve]

I've not seen the atm in the video around but its probably made by someone who is stupid and had no idea what Bitcoin is....well judging on how they made it. It defeats all purposes of purchasing from a atm.

[Kluge]

Yes it is ridiculous. Thankfully the bitcoin ATM's I use do NOT require any form of identification, but to fully comply with AML requirements in the US you have to jump through all of these hoops.

It's absolutely ridiculous considering you don't even need to provide your fingerprints when opening a bank account, yet they require them everytime you use a bitcoin ATM.

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

This is a sector I believe will become heavily black market in the US unless the state steps in quickly to issue clear and lenient guidance. Machines are exceptionally cheap (<$1k) and few location owners know jack-shit about what you're doing outside that you're paying them, say, $300/mo to keep a small machine in their store and drive foot traffic. I think sites like Silk Road may also end up having a strong influence on what happens with orders on the back-end. Already, except for "major" traders and margin lenders/lendees, I don't think there's really any legitimate competition to person-to-person BTC<->USD trade in the US. For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go, while for medium-large buyers, I think they'll still want to stick with exchanges. Either way, if ATMs do become a black market sector in the US, the governments have nobody to blame but themselves. Bitcoin's been around for a long time, now, and on governments' radar -- there's no excuse to take this long.

There are a few ATMs which allow you to sell BTC in the US, but these are likely not "legalized," where they operate in undefined gray territory and have not received proper clarification from state bureaucracies nor even made an effort to contact them, probably because they have no legal resources (or are just betting they can skirt by without heavy-handed punishment). I own a small stake in a company looking to put a one-way "kiosk" (you can only buy BTC, where it's really more like a vending machine) in IL, but the state is still reviewing our arguments and their definitions. They drag their feet. However, a few ATMs sprung up in IL in the meantime, obviously without proper clearance and who operate at significant legal risk.

[herebittybittybitty]

If FedGov says that Bitcoin is property, not currency... then why do they create all the f___ing hassle just to buy some? I can go to Walmart and buy a computer for $520 in cash... so why not a Bitcoin?

[toxiclabs45]

everything starts off broken, it will get fixed in the future.

[Kluge]

If FedGov says that Bitcoin is property, not currency... then why do they create all the f___ing hassle just to buy some? I can go to Walmart and buy a computer for $520 in cash... so why not a Bitcoin?

Because fed gov also says bitcoin is currency, and then there're obviously state governments, most which haven't decided how they want to treat it. They can obviously be in conflict with each other, too, just as guidance from federal agencies has been. A state can legalize marijuana dispensers, but the federal government can still prosecute operators. -Or more likely in our case, a state can still prosecute operators of something the federal government explicitly decriminalized.

[ForgottenPassword]

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

Interesting. When I opened up my checking account it wasn't nearly that difficult though I'm not in the US and this was pre-911. All I needed was ID, SSN, and I had to fill out a short form. You could only do it in a branch too and not online, I think thats still the case. I must remember to close that account someday, haven't used it since 2012 - I've been using bitcoin as my bank account since then.

This is a sector I believe will become heavily black market in the US unless the state steps in quickly to issue clear and lenient guidance.

Yep you can bet your ass it will. It's already happening in other parts of the world where the laws/regulations regarding virtual currencies aren't well defined.

For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go

Not a hope if they require fingerprint and ID scans. Take a look at the video above of the two lawful customers and the difficulties they had. On top of that there is no way in hell I'd ever give ANYONE my fingerprints for any reason because that is WAY to personal, more personal than a picture of my dick IMO. In fact I'd way prefer to provide pictures of my dick instead of my fingerprints when using a bitcoin ATM and I'm an extremely boring law-abiding citizen which big brother should have no interest in at all.

[franky1]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

[bornil267645]

the process is way too much painful

[Kluge]

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

Interesting. When I opened up my checking account it wasn't nearly that difficult though I'm not in the US and this was pre-911. All I needed was ID, SSN, and I had to fill out a short form. You could only do it in a branch too and not online, I think thats still the case. I must remember to close that account someday, haven't used it since 2012 - I've been using bitcoin as my bank account since then.

I should've been more clear -- I meant opening an exchange account for their KYC/AML crap. They have other documents you can use, but I remember those are what I had on hand.

For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go

Not a hope if they require fingerprint and ID scans. Take a look at the video above of the two lawful customers and the difficulties they had. On top of that there is no way in hell I'd ever give ANYONE my fingerprints for any reason because that is WAY to personal, more personal than a picture of my dick IMO. In fact I'd way prefer to provide pictures of my dick instead of my fingerprints when using a bitcoin ATM and I'm an extremely boring law-abiding citizen which big brother should have no interest in at all.

I don't think that's the general feeling of people, but I could be wrong. It's definitely "innovative" in pushing the boundary of invasion of privacy, but assuming the scanning works quickly and without error, it should be a quick process which I don't imagine will bother many if it's sold as a way of enhancing their security rather than weakening their privacy, which is how the government tries to sell it. The bigger reason, though, is that it can be difficult to find local buyers in some areas, might end up taking something like an hour to put together and meet someone for maybe $10 in BTC, and some people might just not be comfortable buying bitcoin from someone in the exact same way they'd buy drugs (well, with the exception that they can establish trustworthiness through something like OTC, a forum, or LocalBitcoins). -And with an exchange, the process of opening an account is slow and invasive, requiring scanning in documents and sometimes even a visit to the notary (or Google Images.... *whistles*).

ETA: Actually, Idunno if anyone does BitInstant's model anymore, but going to 7/11 or whatever and filling out a WU-like form might be the better option. I don't remember what all was involved with that, but IIRC, it wasn't very invasive.

[ForgottenPassword]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

The machine has an ID scanner. Why not just ensure one ID doesn't use the machine too often? Providing fingerprints is too much, I'd have no problem handing over my ID though.

[ForgottenPassword]

ETA: Actually, Idunno if anyone does BitInstant's model anymore, but going to 7/11 or whatever and filling out a WU-like form might be the better option. I don't remember what all was involved with that, but IIRC, it wasn't very invasive.

What about those little prepaid visa gift cards in 7/11?



They don't require ID scans or fingerprints to buy. In fact they don't require any personal information at all, they are technically anonymous.

I wonder if regulations allow for someone to make a Bitcoin version, if not, then won't those visa cards be used by "terrorists" to launder money too?

[Malin Keshar]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

The machine has an ID scanner. Why not just ensure one ID doesn't use the machine too often? Providing fingerprints is too much, I'd have no problem handing over my ID though.

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

[ForgottenPassword]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.