do bitcoin ATMs really suck this much?

[jonald_fyookball]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

[nioc]

15 min video?  I didn't watch it all but scanned thru it which included buying tacos with the purchased btc

The following is a follow up post on the video, no I didn't read it but somebody might be interested.

http://www.tested.com/tech/concepts/460601-where-we-went-wrong-buying-bitcoin-atm/

So how do other btc ATMs work and how should they?

[lomalio]

This video highlights some of the problems that need to be fixed.

[Bizmark13]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

It is very strange. You don't need to do any of those things to buy a soft drink from a vending machine so the same should be true for bitcoins. Are they worried about counterfeit bills or something? I can understand why an ATM might demand ID if payment was done via reversible means or if there was the possibility of card fraud but otherwise, they shouldn't ask for ID, hand scan, photo, phone number, etc.

That being said, once you have the bitcoins in your possession, it should be easy to destroy the link between your ID and your BTC by sending them to a mixing service, right? Or just depositing them in an exchange might do the trick.

[MakeBelieve]

Looks stupid so much hassle to actually buy it from that ATM I'm not sure that all ATM's require all the information from you though.

[ForgottenPassword]

Yes it is ridiculous. Thankfully the bitcoin ATM's I use do NOT require any form of identification, but to fully comply with AML requirements in the US you have to jump through all of these hoops.

It's absolutely ridiculous considering you don't even need to provide your fingerprints when opening a bank account, yet they require them everytime you use a bitcoin ATM.

[counter]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

It is very strange. You don't need to do any of those things to buy a soft drink from a vending machine so the same should be true for bitcoins. Are they worried about counterfeit bills or something? I can understand why an ATM might demand ID if payment was done via reversible means or if there was the possibility of card fraud but otherwise, they shouldn't ask for ID, hand scan, photo, phone number, etc.

That being said, once you have the bitcoins in your possession, it should be easy to destroy the link between your ID and your BTC by sending them to a mixing service, right? Or just depositing them in an exchange might do the trick.

Wow that ATM is a fail of epic proportions.  Why in the world would you ever go threw that process for Bitcoin when you don't have to.  Why would you invest your money into something if you don't have a clue what it is really all about.  

Probably not the best time to get into Bitcoin when you at the bar with your friends and when the price went down 30 dollars I would have canceled the traction and started a brand new one.  That way instead of looking at is as a loss you would see it as a deal, but hey that is just me.

[MakeBelieve]

I've not seen the atm in the video around but its probably made by someone who is stupid and had no idea what Bitcoin is....well judging on how they made it. It defeats all purposes of purchasing from a atm.

[Kluge]

Yes it is ridiculous. Thankfully the bitcoin ATM's I use do NOT require any form of identification, but to fully comply with AML requirements in the US you have to jump through all of these hoops.

It's absolutely ridiculous considering you don't even need to provide your fingerprints when opening a bank account, yet they require them everytime you use a bitcoin ATM.

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

This is a sector I believe will become heavily black market in the US unless the state steps in quickly to issue clear and lenient guidance. Machines are exceptionally cheap (<$1k) and few location owners know jack-shit about what you're doing outside that you're paying them, say, $300/mo to keep a small machine in their store and drive foot traffic. I think sites like Silk Road may also end up having a strong influence on what happens with orders on the back-end. Already, except for "major" traders and margin lenders/lendees, I don't think there's really any legitimate competition to person-to-person BTC<->USD trade in the US. For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go, while for medium-large buyers, I think they'll still want to stick with exchanges. Either way, if ATMs do become a black market sector in the US, the governments have nobody to blame but themselves. Bitcoin's been around for a long time, now, and on governments' radar -- there's no excuse to take this long.

There are a few ATMs which allow you to sell BTC in the US, but these are likely not "legalized," where they operate in undefined gray territory and have not received proper clarification from state bureaucracies nor even made an effort to contact them, probably because they have no legal resources (or are just betting they can skirt by without heavy-handed punishment). I own a small stake in a company looking to put a one-way "kiosk" (you can only buy BTC, where it's really more like a vending machine) in IL, but the state is still reviewing our arguments and their definitions. They drag their feet. However, a few ATMs sprung up in IL in the meantime, obviously without proper clearance and who operate at significant legal risk.

[herebittybittybitty]

If FedGov says that Bitcoin is property, not currency... then why do they create all the f___ing hassle just to buy some? I can go to Walmart and buy a computer for $520 in cash... so why not a Bitcoin?

[toxiclabs45]

everything starts off broken, it will get fixed in the future.

[Kluge]

If FedGov says that Bitcoin is property, not currency... then why do they create all the f___ing hassle just to buy some? I can go to Walmart and buy a computer for $520 in cash... so why not a Bitcoin?

Because fed gov also says bitcoin is currency, and then there're obviously state governments, most which haven't decided how they want to treat it. They can obviously be in conflict with each other, too, just as guidance from federal agencies has been. A state can legalize marijuana dispensers, but the federal government can still prosecute operators. -Or more likely in our case, a state can still prosecute operators of something the federal government explicitly decriminalized.

[ForgottenPassword]

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

Interesting. When I opened up my checking account it wasn't nearly that difficult though I'm not in the US and this was pre-911. All I needed was ID, SSN, and I had to fill out a short form. You could only do it in a branch too and not online, I think thats still the case. I must remember to close that account someday, haven't used it since 2012 - I've been using bitcoin as my bank account since then.

This is a sector I believe will become heavily black market in the US unless the state steps in quickly to issue clear and lenient guidance.

Yep you can bet your ass it will. It's already happening in other parts of the world where the laws/regulations regarding virtual currencies aren't well defined.

For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go

Not a hope if they require fingerprint and ID scans. Take a look at the video above of the two lawful customers and the difficulties they had. On top of that there is no way in hell I'd ever give ANYONE my fingerprints for any reason because that is WAY to personal, more personal than a picture of my dick IMO. In fact I'd way prefer to provide pictures of my dick instead of my fingerprints when using a bitcoin ATM and I'm an extremely boring law-abiding citizen which big brother should have no interest in at all.

[franky1]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

[bornil267645]

the process is way too much painful

[Kluge]

I complained about the horrible idea of these scary palm scanners at announcement, but there's not much alternative in the US if you operate something with more than play money, and in many cases, it is still a superior method of exchanging than through traditional routes. For example, you don't have to scan and transmit your birth certificate, house deed, and ID over the Internet, then answer a bunch of invasive questions.

Interesting. When I opened up my checking account it wasn't nearly that difficult though I'm not in the US and this was pre-911. All I needed was ID, SSN, and I had to fill out a short form. You could only do it in a branch too and not online, I think thats still the case. I must remember to close that account someday, haven't used it since 2012 - I've been using bitcoin as my bank account since then.

I should've been more clear -- I meant opening an exchange account for their KYC/AML crap. They have other documents you can use, but I remember those are what I had on hand.

For small "lawful" buyers, I think ATMs are the way to go

Not a hope if they require fingerprint and ID scans. Take a look at the video above of the two lawful customers and the difficulties they had. On top of that there is no way in hell I'd ever give ANYONE my fingerprints for any reason because that is WAY to personal, more personal than a picture of my dick IMO. In fact I'd way prefer to provide pictures of my dick instead of my fingerprints when using a bitcoin ATM and I'm an extremely boring law-abiding citizen which big brother should have no interest in at all.

I don't think that's the general feeling of people, but I could be wrong. It's definitely "innovative" in pushing the boundary of invasion of privacy, but assuming the scanning works quickly and without error, it should be a quick process which I don't imagine will bother many if it's sold as a way of enhancing their security rather than weakening their privacy, which is how the government tries to sell it. The bigger reason, though, is that it can be difficult to find local buyers in some areas, might end up taking something like an hour to put together and meet someone for maybe $10 in BTC, and some people might just not be comfortable buying bitcoin from someone in the exact same way they'd buy drugs (well, with the exception that they can establish trustworthiness through something like OTC, a forum, or LocalBitcoins). -And with an exchange, the process of opening an account is slow and invasive, requiring scanning in documents and sometimes even a visit to the notary (or Google Images.... *whistles*).

ETA: Actually, Idunno if anyone does BitInstant's model anymore, but going to 7/11 or whatever and filling out a WU-like form might be the better option. I don't remember what all was involved with that, but IIRC, it wasn't very invasive.

[ForgottenPassword]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

The machine has an ID scanner. Why not just ensure one ID doesn't use the machine too often? Providing fingerprints is too much, I'd have no problem handing over my ID though.

[ForgottenPassword]

ETA: Actually, Idunno if anyone does BitInstant's model anymore, but going to 7/11 or whatever and filling out a WU-like form might be the better option. I don't remember what all was involved with that, but IIRC, it wasn't very invasive.

What about those little prepaid visa gift cards in 7/11?



They don't require ID scans or fingerprints to buy. In fact they don't require any personal information at all, they are technically anonymous.

I wonder if regulations allow for someone to make a Bitcoin version, if not, then won't those visa cards be used by "terrorists" to launder money too?

[Malin Keshar]

the purpose of the palm scanning and the ID checks is simple.
even if they set a daily limit of $500-$1000 for AML risk limitation. there would be nothing stopping someone using the machine multiple times to get around the limit. so they as for palm print to ensure no same hand uses the machine too often.

though that being said, i truly find the process not consumer friendly

The machine has an ID scanner. Why not just ensure one ID doesn't use the machine too often? Providing fingerprints is too much, I'd have no problem handing over my ID though.

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

[ForgottenPassword]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.

[jbreher]

This video highlights some of the problems that need to be fixed.

No, this video highlights that a pair of drunk bored idiots, who want to ignore all suggested courses of action, can find a way to screw themselves using any available technology.

[cozk]

Genesis1 i tried did not required anything besides 20$ bills. It gave them and took them. Not issue.

[Skoupi]

Whatever you do just don't read the comments below that video. So much stupidity...

[BitcoinLlama]

Genesis1 i tried did not required anything besides 20$ bills. It gave them and took them. Not issue.

I had a similar experience.

[jjc326]

Genesis1 i tried did not required anything besides 20$ bills. It gave them and took them. Not issue.

I had a similar experience.

It actually gave $20 bills?  I thought bitcoin "atms" only took cash and gave you bitcoins?  You can actually sell your bitcoins for cash at ATMs now?

Is this only the genesis ATM?  I know most ATMs only allow you to buy bitcoin.

[moriartybitcoin]

Bitcoin ATMs are an Orwellian nightmare .. palm scanners, fingerprints, driver license scan. Hell, soon they will be taking DNA swabs .. fuck that.

AVOID ATMs. Buy bitcoins anonymously on LocalBitcoins or an ANONYMOUS EXCHANGE!

[BittBurger]

Forget privacy issues.

The reason Bitcoin ATMs suck is because the  owners are ripping people off with the "spread" price from buy to sell.

Often times $50 to $100 or more.  

Idiots.  People's greed is what will stop Bitcoin from going to the moon quickly.

ATM company operators should make rules about this shit.  Limits.  Like ... spread can't be more than $3.00

Like a typical ATM fee.

I never anticipated that Bitcoin ATMS would be rendered useless by this.  I thought people would be able to buy Bitcoins with them.  But they can't.

-B-

[cbeast]

ETA: Actually, Idunno if anyone does BitInstant's model anymore, but going to 7/11 or whatever and filling out a WU-like form might be the better option. I don't remember what all was involved with that, but IIRC, it wasn't very invasive.

What about those little prepaid visa gift cards in 7/11?



They don't require ID scans or fingerprints to buy. In fact they don't require any personal information at all, they are technically anonymous.

I wonder if regulations allow for someone to make a Bitcoin version, if not, then won't those visa cards be used by "terrorists" to launder money too?

Forget privacy issues.

The reason Bitcoin ATMs suck is because the  owners are ripping people off with the "spread" price from buy to sell.

Often times $50 to $100 or more.   

Idiots.  People's greed is what will stop Bitcoin from going to the moon quickly.

ATM company operators should make rules about this shit.  Limits.  Like ... spread can't be more than $3.00

Like a typical ATM fee.

I never anticipated that Bitcoin ATMS would be rendered useless by this.  I thought people would be able to buy Bitcoins with them.  But they can't.

-B-

There is a $4.95 fee for a $50 card. If you buy $600 worth of cards you will pay $59.40 in fees.

[cozk]

Genesis1 i tried did not required anything besides 20$ bills. It gave them and took them. Not issue.

I had a similar experience.

It actually gave $20 bills?  I thought bitcoin "atms" only took cash and gave you bitcoins?  You can actually sell your bitcoins for cash at ATMs now?

Is this only the genesis ATM?  I know most ATMs only allow you to buy bitcoin.

Ya you can cash out bitcoins for fiat.

[freedomno1]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

Blame the government for making all the KYC AML stuff a giant pain
It should be way simpler and this is a damn overcompliant machine.
Handscans
Photo ID

Da heck why on earth would I do this much, just have a machine that asks for photo ID done.
As for fees rental costs accounting getting compliance mumble.

[ForgottenPassword]

There is a $4.95 fee for a $50 card. If you buy $600 worth of cards you will pay $59.40 in fees.

Actually you can buy higher value cards for a lesser percentage fee than that. The largest one I've seen at a gas sation is $1,000 value though I don't remember the fee offhand. I'm sure the fee varies depending on the retailer, but they're not that expensive.

But thats beside the point. The point is you can buy these gift cards at any gas station anonymously (no personal information required), but you can't buy bitcoin from an ATM without fingerprint and ID scans due to AML. Why is that? The risks of misuse are almost exactly the same.

[cbeast]

There is a $4.95 fee for a $50 card. If you buy $600 worth of cards you will pay $59.40 in fees.

Actually you can buy higher value cards for a lesser percentage fee than that. The largest one I've seen is $1,000 though I don't remember the fee offhand.

But thats beside the point. The point is you can buy these gift cards at any gas station anonymously (no personal information required), but you can't buy bitcoin from an ATM without fingerprint and ID scans due to AML. Why is that? The risks of misuse are almost exactly the same.

In Texas $50 is the largest.

[ForgottenPassword]

In Texas $50 is the largest.

Quick Google search says you can buy a $1,000 one from Acutx Credit Union in Austin, Tx:

https://www.acutx.org/account-services/convenience/visa-gift-card

It doesn't specifically say but I don't think you need to provide ID. You can order a $500 value card from them online too. I'm sure you can get them in other places in Texas too. You can definitely buy $1,000 value visa gift cards from gas stations in other places in the US.

[cbeast]

In Texas $50 is the largest.

Quick Google search says you can buy a $1,000 one from Acutx Credit Union in Austin, Tx:

https://www.acutx.org/account-services/convenience/visa-gift-card

It doesn't specifically say but I don't think you need to provide ID. I'm sure you can get them in other places in Texas too.

Yes you can buy them online for larger amounts, but ID is required.

[ForgottenPassword]

Yes you can buy them online for larger amounts, but ID is required.

How to Purchase
Order a Gift Card online in any amount from $25 to $500. Or, visit any ACUTX location to purchase gift cards in any amount from $25 to $ 1,000.

I've bought these from plenty of gas stations and never been ID'ed (though not ones so large). I doubt they will ID you, it doesn't say they do on the website.

[cbeast]

Yes you can buy them online for larger amounts, but ID is required.

How to Purchase
Order a Gift Card online in any amount from $25 to $500. Or, visit any ACUTX location to purchase gift cards in any amount from $25 to $ 1,000.

I've bought these from plenty of gas stations and never been ID'ed. I doubt they will ID you, it doesn't say they do on the website.

I was just looking for them not long ago for using Gyft to buy them. The $50 limit and fees made it unfeasible. Even moneypaks require ID. Maybe you can get some at a bank, I never tried that but I doubt a bank would do anything without ID.

[ForgottenPassword]

I was just looking for them not long ago for using Gyft to buy them. The $50 limit and fees made it unfeasible. Even moneypaks require ID. Maybe you can get some at a bank, I never tried that but I doubt a bank would do anything without ID.

Walmart has $200 mastercard ones for a $6 fee too. Might be workable if they don't ID, 3% isn't that bad really. Though it sounds like you want BTC -> Visa which is no good unless Walmart starts accepting BTC

But the point is these seem fairly exploitable, yet we have all these ridiculous rules requiring fingerprint and ID scans to do the same thing with bitcoin.

[Jamie_Boulder]

If FedGov says that Bitcoin is property, not currency... then why do they create all the f___ing hassle just to buy some? I can go to Walmart and buy a computer for $520 in cash... so why not a Bitcoin?

Just because they won't admit it doesn't mean it isn't so, I see this as good news considering the hoops these guys had to jump through are just as bad as when you trade fiat for fiat elsewhere.

[valvalis]

The worst from bitcoin ATM is It needs forever for confirmation.
Bitcoin need faster confirmation time, especialy when using bitcoin ATM

[blumangroup]

You can always try and get away with fake cash, you know that right. It's easier on ATMs than anything else.

[TaunSew]

My local ATM does not scan my hand or ask for any government ID.  I strongly suspect, however, that they do take photos.


There was a riot in my area some years ago and the police used sophisticated software to match people in the riot photographs with accounts on Facebook, in order to identify and arrest people.  If the ATM is storing images of its' users then the Police or the Government can cross compare that information with Facebook to find out who is a crypto currency user and/or has not paid their capital gains' tax.

[BANK RUN]

At least this one seems to suck consistently.

BitAccess ATM have more issues than a 50 years old space shuttle.

[jonald_fyookball]

My local ATM does not scan my hand or ask for any government ID.  I strongly suspect, however, that they do take photos.


There was a riot in my area some years ago and the police used sophisticated software to match people in the riot photographs with accounts on Facebook, in order to identify and arrest people.  If the ATM is storing images of its' users then the Police or the Government can cross compare that information with Facebook to find out who is a crypto currency user and/or has not paid their capital gains' tax.

r u Canadian ?

[cozk]

My local ATM does not scan my hand or ask for any government ID.  I strongly suspect, however, that they do take photos.


There was a riot in my area some years ago and the police used sophisticated software to match people in the riot photographs with accounts on Facebook, in order to identify and arrest people.  If the ATM is storing images of its' users then the Police or the Government can cross compare that information with Facebook to find out who is a crypto currency user and/or has not paid their capital gains' tax.

Some people never put a photo on facebook bro....

[1ZHs]

Looks stupid so much hassle to actually buy it from that ATM I'm not sure that all ATM's require all the information from you though.

it is really not that much of a hassle. The entire process only takes minutes when compared to days/weeks to complete the kyc process at most exchanges and not only that but deposits/withdrawals are instant.

[jonald_fyookball]

Looks stupid so much hassle to actually buy it from that ATM I'm not sure that all ATM's require all the information from you though.

it is really not that much of a hassle. The entire process only takes minutes when compared to days/weeks to complete the kyc process at most exchanges and not only that but deposits/withdrawals are instant.

True, but imo feels like an invasion of privacy and government nanny-ism

[nioc]

My local ATM does not scan my hand or ask for any government ID.  I strongly suspect, however, that they do take photos.


There was a riot in my area some years ago and the police used sophisticated software to match people in the riot photographs with accounts on Facebook, in order to identify and arrest people.  If the ATM is storing images of its' users then the Police or the Government can cross compare that information with Facebook to find out who is a crypto currency user and/or has not paid their capital gains' tax.

Some people never put a photo on facebook bro....

And some people don't have a facebook account or anything like it.  google me and you will find nothing.

For bank KYC they basically ask if you're a terrorist and I don't think they ever received the answer yes   When they asked about my job I said unemployed.  Yes a bank knows your name, address, dl and ss# but it's been that way for a very long time.

Just buy your ATM btc on Halloween

[privateKEY]

My local ATM does not scan my hand or ask for any government ID.  I strongly suspect, however, that they do take photos.


There was a riot in my area some years ago and the police used sophisticated software to match people in the riot photographs with accounts on Facebook, in order to identify and arrest people.  If the ATM is storing images of its' users then the Police or the Government can cross compare that information with Facebook to find out who is a crypto currency user and/or has not paid their capital gains' tax.

I don't think this kind of evidence would really hold up in court. This kind of technology is not accurate enough if this is the only evidence against you.

[mercistheman]

everything starts off broken, it will get fixed in the future.

This simple statement has a lot of merit... anyone old enough to remember the first PC or Cell phone will attest to the fact that there will need to be multiple levels of improvements on each level b4 there is a sense of transparency and security... don't jump off the boat at the first sign of a wave. 

[doof]

I don't know why the manufactures put this crap on.  Where is the legislation that says you must take a hand print?  Sif hand print is valid anyway.

[Kluge]

^They aren't explicitly required to take a vein print, but they have to know, pretty absolutely, who they're dealing with in real-time so they don't break draconian AML law in the US (and any other country so backward).

everything starts off broken, it will get fixed in the future.

This simple statement has a lot of merit... anyone old enough to remember the first PC or Cell phone will attest to the fact that there will need to be multiple levels of improvements on each level b4 there is a sense of transparency and security... don't jump off the boat at the first sign of a wave. 

Vein scanning IS the improvement. The alternative is full KYC, then issuing the customer a card which has to be renewed every so often, which is what the banks do.

[bitkilo]

I used a bitcoin ATM for the 1st time yesterday. It was a Lamassu one and it was so easy to use. 3 steps, push start, scan QR code and insert money, done.
No fingerprint, no eye scan just easy bitcoin purchase they way it should be.

[haploid23]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

Holy shit, talking about raping your identity just to buy. For mainstream adoption, this is actually negative publicity for bitcoin.

[freedomno1]

I used a bitcoin ATM for the 1st time yesterday. It was a Lamassu one and it was so easy to use. 3 steps, push start, scan QR code and insert money, done.
No fingerprint, no eye scan just easy bitcoin purchase they way it should be.

The main problem is that the unit makes it easy as heck
But the question is how do they maintain Know Your Client and Anti-Money Laundering compliance on the machine
Government regulations on money service businesses means that it is a giant pain to get it complying or risk getting in trouble with gov.

[phillipsjk]

I tried the one (also robocoin based) in West Edmonton Mall. I failed the "input confirmation code" step (no cell-phone).

I eventually found a Bitcoin vending machine in a bar that was actually within biking distance. All it wanted was a QR code and money.

I found it amusing that they put in almost exactly $666.
I hope he gets his money back.
~1BTC should be a high-priority transaction within 24 hours (of the taco purchase).

[Varicon]

Bitcoin ATM's are still new tech, hopefully with time they'll become more competitive and easy to use.

[phillipsjk]

Bitcoin ATM's are still new tech, hopefully with time they'll become more competitive and easy to use.

Everybody seem to be saying this, but I suspect they will get worse before they get better.

Here are the instructions for using a machine I was not able to find. I believe it was pulled and similar machines are not available simply over regulatory concerns.

Edit: the vending machine I found is smart enough to scan the QR code before asking for money.

[freedomno1]

Bitcoin ATM's are still new tech, hopefully with time they'll become more competitive and easy to use.

Everybody seem to be saying this, but I suspect they will get worse before they get better.

Here are the instructions for using a machine I was not able to find. I believe it was pulled and similar machines are not available simply over regulatory concerns.

Edit: the vending machine I found is smart enough to scan the QR code before asking for money.

Well in Canada the issue is over Bill C-31 which requires provisions on virtual currencies like Bitcoin, requiring similar reporting and regulatory standards applied by traditional financial markets. The new law regulates Bitcoin as a “money service business” and specifically addresses dealers in virtual currencies. It is expected to cover Bitcoin exchanges and ATMs.

The amendments make Bitcoin and all digital currencies subject to the requirements currently applicable to money services businesses. Bitcoin exchanges will now be required to register with FINTRAC, report suspicious and other transactions, keep certain records, implement compliance plans, and determine if any of their customers are “politically exposed persons.”

It makes it a major PITA to be compliant with them though a service like idology.com can cost up to 2500 for the year to scan ids and verify users.
Some machines now come with  KYC and AML built in but machines like the Lamassu ATM would need to cover the cost on their own.

Major PITA for a machine to be compliant in a customer-not-present environment.
So taking accounting costs, rental costs, and the compliance aspect their are problems with just getting one out that meets these standards and keeping the costs down.

[Leina]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

ATM version for kyc and aml compliance.

For definitive ID purpose, they should have ask for sperm rather than hand print.

[annoyingorange]

This is the fault of government regulation. This is what a bitcoin ATM that ignores regulation looks like.
http://instagram.com/p/oGedybhnQF/

[CokeCoin]

It's not bitcoin, it's the KYC laws

[TheTruth4]

Just 11 simple steps, with one of the steps including a 15 minute wait..
So futuristic. 

[unexecuted]

If you have not watched the Tested video of them buying bitcoin from an ATM it is so worthwhile:
http://www.tested.com/tech/concepts/460600-tested-we-buy-bitcoin/
Watch as the guy goes from enthusiastic confident bitcoin proponent to angry hater in just 15 minutes

[CoolBliss]

I view it as setting up a bank account because after the initial set up I can return to the ATM and simply buy Bitcoin just like I would withdraw cash from a normal ATM. Also, I had a pleasant experience.

[sandykho47]

I think we don't need bitcoin ATm
You just waste money to create Bitcoin ATM

I think we just need 1 smartphone (with bitcoin wallet) & barcode address (or you can show barcode image on your smartphone)
It's much more simpler & faster 

I think Bitcoin ATM will fail  & closed

[romerun]

I just got the Circle invite. Very useful. It can use bitcoin to pay credit card bill directly (visa/master with limitation of $500 a week or so), by passing bank.

[wasserman99]

I used a bitcoin ATM for the 1st time yesterday. It was a Lamassu one and it was so easy to use. 3 steps, push start, scan QR code and insert money, done.
No fingerprint, no eye scan just easy bitcoin purchase they way it should be.

The main problem is that the unit makes it easy as heck
But the question is how do they maintain Know Your Client and Anti-Money Laundering compliance on the machine
Government regulations on money service businesses means that it is a giant pain to get it complying or risk getting in trouble with gov.

They do follow these types of rules. That is why you need to give them a scan of your hand, your ID and let them take your picture. All this is for record keeping compliance purposes.

Also regardless of if the ATM operator follows the AML/KYC rules you would generally not get in trouble if you were to the machine unless you were structuring your transactions (doing several transactions that are under the reporting threshold over several days - and the sole purpose of these smaller transactions is to avoid reporting).

[freedomno1]

I used a bitcoin ATM for the 1st time yesterday. It was a Lamassu one and it was so easy to use. 3 steps, push start, scan QR code and insert money, done.
No fingerprint, no eye scan just easy bitcoin purchase they way it should be.

The main problem is that the unit makes it easy as heck
But the question is how do they maintain Know Your Client and Anti-Money Laundering compliance on the machine
Government regulations on money service businesses means that it is a giant pain to get it complying or risk getting in trouble with gov.

They do follow these types of rules. That is why you need to give them a scan of your hand, your ID and let them take your picture. All this is for record keeping compliance purposes.

Also regardless of if the ATM operator follows the AML/KYC rules you would generally not get in trouble if you were to the machine unless you were structuring your transactions (doing several transactions that are under the reporting threshold over several days - and the sole purpose of these smaller transactions is to avoid reporting).

What I meant is that it gets expensive quickly
But your right the users aren't the ones who get in trouble its the operators that take the risk as annoyingorange pointed out without all that extra stuff this is what a Bitcoin transaction would look like.

This is the fault of government regulation. This is what a bitcoin ATM that ignores regulation looks like.
http://instagram.com/p/oGedybhnQF/

[wordman267645]

The process is too slow..I have not seen such like ATM machine.That is so stupid..

[elasticband]

Bitcoin ATM's are a scam to line the opperator pockets with 6% vommision. More than using a traditional currwncy exchange.

The procedure is hirrible to watch. .... teuat me i watched a man try and buy €10000 from a ATM, the painful process of him inserting all those notes..... atleast €8000 was in €10 notrs. Oh the cringe i got watching thia going on in a public coffee house.

[bornil267645]

They aRE TRYING TO MAKE BITCOIN LOOK BAD...DONT GET INTO IT...BITCOIN RULES...

[Bitbirdhunt]

They are being too much cautious. Normal atm machines requires no hand/thumb impressions..haha.

[elasticband]

They are being too much cautious. Normal atm machines requires no hand/thumb impressions..haha.

Normal fiat bank run ATM's require the use of a card which has KYC regulations following it  around.

[CreamyPie]

Giving id, phone number and hand print, that's a sick level of security.

They might remove it in future..

[MilesJohan]

That sucks really bad, its worse then atm machine just typing password...

[RodeoX]

I view it as setting up a bank account because after the initial set up I can return to the ATM and simply buy Bitcoin just like I would withdraw cash from a normal ATM. Also, I had a pleasant experience.

+1
These laws apply to all money. It's not like there was a chance that bitcoin would be magical tax free money. For example, can you use an ATM machine without a bank account?
I know a lot of people here would be fine taking the legal risk of using a non-compliant machine. However you are not going to find someone willing to risk their capitol and their freedom so you can break the law. 

[onlyu]

This is the fault of government regulation. This is what a bitcoin ATM that ignores regulation looks like.
http://instagram.com/p/oGedybhnQF/

This is a very nice ATM.

Where is it located and is it legal?

[MoonRise]

I fastforwarded the video, got the idea..

They are trying to make btc atms too much secure

[Wealthy]

Where the video is from? Are BTC atms available to public? Are they legal?

[Nagle]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

[Fearless]

Why in the world you even require a BTC atm...unless you have all your assets in form of BTC..

[clovex]

Why in the world you even require a BTC atm...unless you have all your assets in form of BTC..

How else are you supossed to get FIAT out of BTC when banks are clossed? 

[evanito]

That is pretty annoying, bitcoin was meant to be convenient not bothersome to use...

[cbeast]

Bitcoin ATMs are superlative. They are for people that can't use smartphones. Those idiots in that video didn't seem sober or smart enough to use either.

[digitalindustry]

Yes it is ridiculous. Thankfully the bitcoin ATM's I use do NOT require any form of identification, but to fully comply with AML requirements in the US you have to jump through all of these hoops.

It's absolutely ridiculous considering you don't even need to provide your fingerprints when opening a bank account, yet they require them everytime you use a bitcoin ATM.

"The Soviets"

[Emperion]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

so you have to scan your hand four times, and give them your id...and your phone number...and still pay only with cash? da fuq.

That's pretty rough. It shouldn't be that hard to purchase Bitcoin, though KYC and AML regulations are pretty strict

[phillipsjk]

I know a lot of people here would be fine taking the legal risk of using a non-compliant machine. However you are not going to find someone willing to risk their capitol and their freedom so you can break the law. 

It may be possible to set up a machine with low monthly limits treating the entire body public as "one person" Would have to be like less than $1000/day or $10,000/quarter I expect.

That actually gives hints as to how to set fees: if you are getting close to being considered a MSB; charge higher fees.

[foggyb]

Bitcoin ATMs are superlative. They are for people that can't use smartphones. Those idiots in that video didn't seem sober or smart enough to use either.

Superfluous?

EDIT: Right, superlative works. Excessive.

Not the most common meaning.

[ProfMac]

This same ATM was at the Texas Bitcoin Conference the week before SXSW.  I used this very machine.

As the video shows, there are two steps to exchanging Bitcoin and Fiat in any bank or money exchange setting.

1.  Verifying identity and KYC/AML registration.

2.  Exchanging fiat & BTC.


This vending machine lets both processes take place.  The registration is, of course, tedious no matter where you go.

At this vending machine, the one time registration consisted of inserting my (TX) driver's license, my palm print, a scan of my eyes, and giving a phone number.  The machine thanked me, and said it would give a txt message when I was approved.  It took about a minute for that to complete.

I went to the back of the line, and when I got back to the front, I said I wanted to buy bitcoin.  I put my palm in the machine, inserted a $10 bill, and it printed out a QR code with a brand new address and private key.  A very precious piece of paper that presents a security concern until I move the funds elsewhere.  I'm sure the cell phone got involved somehow, but I don't remember that.  I have a blackberry, not an Android, and I wanted a paper receipt.

I assume that I can now go to any ATM in that network, insert my palm, and do a transaction. 

Ahem.  I always include the miner's fee.

[exocytosis]

Where can I find reliable statistics on their use? Bitcoiners always go on and on about how great these ATM's are, with their biometric scanners, their blood sample analysis tools, and their fees ... But for some reason, the number of actual users is never mentioned ...?

[CoinATMRadar]

Where can I find reliable statistics on their use? Bitcoiners always go on and on about how great these ATM's are, with their biometric scanners, their blood sample analysis tools, and their fees ... But for some reason, the number of actual users is never mentioned ...?

I've collected some stats. You can get an understanding of the number of transactions here Bitcoin ATM profit calculator.

According to what I've seen the average number of transaction is about 50-80 per month.
Of course, many things depend on the the country, location, traffic, machine type itself, supported transactions, etc. and also it results in different average tnx size, but those figures still give a good understanding about the volume.

[onlyu]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

[itsAj]

I know a lot of people here would be fine taking the legal risk of using a non-compliant machine. However you are not going to find someone willing to risk their capitol and their freedom so you can break the law.  

It may be possible to set up a machine with low monthly limits treating the entire body public as "one person" Would have to be like less than $1000/day or $10,000/quarter I expect.

That actually gives hints as to how to set fees: if you are getting close to being considered a MSB; charge higher fees.

I think most BTC ATMs do much more business then this. I don't think the compliance costs are that great that the additional revenue from the incremental business above $10k per month would be paid to comply with regulations.

[exocytosis]

Where can I find reliable statistics on their use? Bitcoiners always go on and on about how great these ATM's are, with their biometric scanners, their blood sample analysis tools, and their fees ... But for some reason, the number of actual users is never mentioned ...?

I've collected some stats. You can get an understanding of the number of transactions here Bitcoin ATM profit calculator.

According to what I've seen the average number of transaction is about 50-80 per month.
Of course, many things depend on the the country, location, traffic, machine type itself, supported transactions, etc. and also it results in different average tnx size, but those figures still give a good understanding about the volume.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.

[Kluge]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

Not if your target is dumb and/or lazy and/or busy people looking to "invest" in something making whatever they think's expected that year.... 20000% or whatever. Looking on the speculation forum, you'd think this is most people with coin, but I don't think that's really the case, thank God. However, there may be some areas more prone to that kind of audience.... but I can't think of them.... somewhere dumb and urban... okay, I can think of a few, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

[freedomno1]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

Not if your target is dumb and/or lazy and/or busy people looking to "invest" in something making whatever they think's expected that year.... 20000% or whatever. Looking on the speculation forum, you'd think this is most people with coin, but I don't think that's really the case, thank God. However, there may be some areas more prone to that kind of audience.... but I can't think of them.... somewhere dumb and urban... okay, I can think of a few, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Well those type of places are where some of those ATM's will be located XD
If you ever revealed them that is but true enough if people expect 2000% returns on their investment
An ATM that charges that fee is a deal lol.

[itsAj]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

Not if your target is dumb and/or lazy and/or busy people looking to "invest" in something making whatever they think's expected that year.... 20000% or whatever. Looking on the speculation forum, you'd think this is most people with coin, but I don't think that's really the case, thank God. However, there may be some areas more prone to that kind of audience.... but I can't think of them.... somewhere dumb and urban... okay, I can think of a few, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Some people are willing to pay a higher rate because they want to keep their anonymity. I think that 15% is a bit excessive to pay for this but some people may disagree. I agree that there are many very stupid people out there that will easily get conned into paying well above the market rate for things for no apparent reason.

[Hasher99]

I don't think BTC atms are of much use now, however its bringing  public attention only, bringing BTC to mainstream

[mercistheman]

Not understanding why folks can't figure out that technology has to have a starting point... this is the equivalent of 1981 for the IBM PC model 5150 running DOS 1.0... think it might get better?

[oceans]

With any new technology there is always going to be a time when it will have it's faults and this will be one of them kinds of technology where they will need to release it and have it used to find it's faults and get them fixed. It may suck now but in time the faults will be fixed and things will start to get better.

[CoolBliss]

Please don't judge all bitcoin ATM's by a Robocoin machine.

[bitkilo]

We have 1 Robocoin ATM here in Melbourne, Aus, but this has been down since 20/03/2014 due to no interest they tell me. i wanted to use it as it seems to be the only 2 way ATM here.
I have used the Lamassu type before and will def use it again.

[TaunSew]

I don't think BTC atms are of much use now, however its bringing  public attention only, bringing BTC to mainstream

I looked up Bitcoin dealers online while reading this thread.  I only found one person with any reputation (and four others without rep) that was selling for physical cash.

It's a choice between the ATMs (which mark up) or an unknown cash dealer who marks up and then could just be a crook looking to mug somebody.

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.  They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

 The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

[wasserman99]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

Not if your target is dumb and/or lazy and/or busy people looking to "invest" in something making whatever they think's expected that year.... 20000% or whatever. Looking on the speculation forum, you'd think this is most people with coin, but I don't think that's really the case, thank God. However, there may be some areas more prone to that kind of audience.... but I can't think of them.... somewhere dumb and urban... okay, I can think of a few, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Well those type of places are where some of those ATM's will be located XD
If you ever revealed them that is but true enough if people expect 2000% returns on their investment
An ATM that charges that fee is a deal lol.

People expect those kinds of returns because they are stupid and uneducated. They are also willing to "get in" on the investment at any cost to avoid missing out on their gains. As a result they do not take into consideration the fact that they can purchase the same investment with a little bit more leg work.

[7Priest7]

The guy really should've bought a smaller amount.
I agree with the white guy though, for day to day transactions cash is king.

At this point BTC has a few things it is good for,
a risky store of value,
a market for investors to play(day traders),
purchase of illegal items in a semi-anonymous way.

Can you imagine how long checkout lanes would be if more people paid using QR Codes, you'd be like the old lady with a check.

[elasticband]

You wouod be surprised how many people stand in the que playing with their phone instead of counting thier change,  sorting notes or retrieving their card from their wallet/ hanbag &purse.

a simple push of a few huttons can bring up a qr reader

[jbreher]

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.

I can't help but think that you are misrepresenting the situation here. Can you provide a link to more info?

To my limited knowledge, the IRS cannot levy a retroactive tax. I cannot help but think that you are confusing this with the IRS clarifying that income from bitcoin is taxable. And that such clarification came after a tax year where such income should have been reported, but was not. Here is a clue - according to the IRS, _all_ income is taxable. Just because income comes from bitcoin, does not make it exempt from taxation.

They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

Again, a link to more info on this incident would be helpful. By law, they cannot tax income at a rate any greater than that legislated. I don't know all the details, but I am pretty sure the law does not provide for taxation at a rate greater than 'all of it'.

The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

In the USA, The Constitution bars the legislation of any ex post facto law. Yes, sometimes they get away with it, but I believe such laws, if fought, are typically overturned.

[EndlessStory]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

[Emperion]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.

Yeah, pretty sketchy

[ProfMac]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

This is a one (1) time only thing, to set up the AML/KYC documents.  It is not part of any transaction.

[Wooden Plate]

Looks like they are keeping the security pretty tight to avoid any theft and scams.

Nice initiative though.

[7Priest7]

to avoid any theft and scams.

While charging ludicrous fees.

Avoiding scams by being a scam, Brilliant!

[btckold24]

wow these guys are annoying and wow they need to fix that with using a atm

[itsAj]

I don't think BTC atms are of much use now, however its bringing  public attention only, bringing BTC to mainstream

I looked up Bitcoin dealers online while reading this thread.  I only found one person with any reputation (and four others without rep) that was selling for physical cash.

It's a choice between the ATMs (which mark up) or an unknown cash dealer who marks up and then could just be a crook looking to mug somebody.

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.  They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

 The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

In my experience the traders/liquidity providers on LBC will generally charge a high markup, generally more so then what you will see at an ATM. You need to remember that these traders need to be paid for their time, while the "time' of an ATM is free, and any profits an ATM makes would go towards the owner potentially ROIing.

[bassguitarman]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.

Its an analogy of bitcoin.  Rules won't stop people from using it

[s1lverbox]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

[Kluge]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

[itsAj]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

I think that Robocoin has done a very good job at marketing their ATMs as being somewhat legit and being AML complaint. People with a lot of money to lose do not want to risk breaking AML rules as the consequences for doing so can be great (they often also do not have a huge interest in bitcoin itself but are rather looking for a way to invest their money).

[Kluge]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

I think that Robocoin has done a very good job at marketing their ATMs as being somewhat legit and being AML complaint. People with a lot of money to lose do not want to risk breaking AML rules as the consequences for doing so can be great (they often also do not have a huge interest in bitcoin itself but are rather looking for a way to invest their money).

Yeah -- sorry, I didn't mean to come off as anti-Robocoin. Having a Robocoin machine (at least in the US) seems like a pretty good indication the operators are operating lawfully and likely legit otherwise. Clearly not a fly-by-night.

[wasserman99]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

It doesn't turn people off from wanting to use bitcoin ATMs. People do not seem to think that these requirements are that intrusive. For the most part, most bitcoin ATMs have been very successful.

[BitcoinBadger]

Bitcoin atms are trying to make themselves too much secure because Bitcoin can sometimes cannot combat legal issues after fraud, in many places.

That's why so much cautious.

[fryarminer]

I used one once. I did not like the whole photo and palm scan thing. I really didn't. But then I ended up paying $50 over spot for the purchase too. So honestly, I don't see myself using the ATM again.

Before using it the first time I was really excited about the idea of changing anonymous cash into bitcoin. That does not happen!

[giveBTCpls]

Yeah, this video was pretty depressing and gives out bad press to Bitcoin. This needs to be fixed ASAP:

[itsAj]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

I think that Robocoin has done a very good job at marketing their ATMs as being somewhat legit and being AML complaint. People with a lot of money to lose do not want to risk breaking AML rules as the consequences for doing so can be great (they often also do not have a huge interest in bitcoin itself but are rather looking for a way to invest their money).

Yeah -- sorry, I didn't mean to come off as anti-Robocoin. Having a Robocoin machine (at least in the US) seems like a pretty good indication the operators are operating lawfully and likely legit otherwise. Clearly not a fly-by-night.

This is exactly the selling point of robocoin machines. Investors in the US with a lot to lose do not want to risk their freedom in exchange for potentially for a somewhat larger return on their investment.

[bornil267645]

They make it easy for the bad guys but they make it hard for the good guys...