dice.ninja - Now with Plinko!

[imp0ster]

My twitter was one of the first accounts they followed.  So what?

If I was the mastermind behind these sites do you really think that I would:

- Play on them actively
- Promote them actively
- Freely withdraw large sums of bitcoins to other gambling sites to play
- Shut the site down like 3 days after having all of my personal information posted to bitcointalk

How stupid do you think I am?

You only sound less credible by denying to acknowledge the evidence that does point towards you, you are an actual idiot if you can not answer the questions you pose, I'm sure you're just pretending to be one. If you are DMF, ofcourse this identity and the DMF identity were never supposed to be linked.. Otherwise you wouldn't be in this situation. Every point you bring up is moot, we have gone over all of your excuses and suggestions and they've all turned out to be bullshit, acting like you don't understand it makes you even more shady.

[omahapoker]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now



a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.


I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him



I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

[lolled]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now

a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.

I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him

I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

Actually, its the opposite. Since his identity is out in the open, and if he is accused of something, then running away isn't a solution. He or dmf, are well aware, that bitcoin gambling is a grey area, and no one has any solid evidence against anyone so he has nothing to be scared about. Just staying away will actually make it more likely that he scammed, but posting here doesn't mean he is not dmf.

You being on JPCDice doesn't mean that AK could not be involved with the site. Even if it is AK and another guy, then most of the time you could be talking to the other guy. And AK and that other guy could be using those funds.

Guess what, I did a trick question about something with AK too, and he actually answered making him more likely to be related to dice.ninja.

[omahapoker]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now

a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.

I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him

I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

Actually, its the opposite. Since his identity is out in the open, and if he is accused of something, then running away isn't a solution. He or dmf, are well aware, that bitcoin gambling is a grey area, and no one has any solid evidence against anyone so he has nothing to be scared about. Just staying away will actually make it more likely that he scammed, but posting here doesn't mean he is not dmf.

You being on JPCDice doesn't mean that AK could not be involved with the site. Even if it is AK and another guy, then most of the time you could be talking to the other guy. And AK and that other guy could be using those funds.

Guess what, I did a trick question about something with AK too, and he actually answered making him more likely to be related to dice.ninja.

if im wrong about AK then i'm sorry and i will bring the rope for the public hanging...



but i havnt seen anything yet that made me go...it's him ...hes dmf

[wayshegoes]

I think somewhere along the line JoeMattie slipped up but it's hard to see where. There is a serious smell of bullshit in this thread, and some happy degenerate up $1m

[lolled]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now

a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.

I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him

I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

Actually, its the opposite. Since his identity is out in the open, and if he is accused of something, then running away isn't a solution. He or dmf, are well aware, that bitcoin gambling is a grey area, and no one has any solid evidence against anyone so he has nothing to be scared about. Just staying away will actually make it more likely that he scammed, but posting here doesn't mean he is not dmf.

You being on JPCDice doesn't mean that AK could not be involved with the site. Even if it is AK and another guy, then most of the time you could be talking to the other guy. And AK and that other guy could be using those funds.

Guess what, I did a trick question about something with AK too, and he actually answered making him more likely to be related to dice.ninja.

if im wrong about AK then i'm sorry and i will bring the rope for the public hanging...



but i havnt seen anything yet that made me go...it's him ...hes dmf

Honestly, there isn't enough mud to throw at Jeremy either. Except for the fact that some instagram dicemaster.. had a photo of him, which could have been put up by AK to distract you guys.

[imp0ster]

The evidence against AK is about 10 times as damning as that against J. Hise, especially since AK was the first one to link to the instagram.

[jaysabi]

I think the SEC would see a difference. By investing you are only bankrolling. If investment was offered as shares then maybe. There are no real regulations for this sort of stuff at the moment.

This is not true. It doesn't matter if it's "shares" or "interests" (which is what the percentage of the bankroll is) or any other name you're calling your stake. The regulations are the same.

[dooglus]

Even though there is sufficient proof. [...] There is no solid evidence against AK [...]

Aren't you contradicting yourself there?

If there's no solid evidence, how is there sufficient proof?

[cryptasm]

wait that site scammed? was just a matter of time, it did not look too inviting for me from the beginning on.
How many coins have been stolen? The owner just disappeared?

[jaysabi]

I think the SEC would see a difference. By investing you are only bankrolling. If investment was offered as shares then maybe. There are no real regulations for this sort of stuff at the moment.

Agreed.

In retrospect, "invest" was a bad word for to pick for what people do at crowd-bankrolled dice sites. It suggests to the uninformed that you're buying a share in the site when of course you aren't. I don't know what a better pair of verbs than invest/divest would be though. "bankroll/unbankroll" is clumsy, and has the disadvantage that "bankroll" is a noun as well as a verb, and so is confusing. I guess crowd-funded bankrolls are new enough that we don't yet have a good vocabulary for describing them and so "borrow" words from a related but different activity.

The SEC seems mainly concerned with unregistered share offerings, such as in the SatoshiDice case (Edit: this quote is from the SEC):

An SEC investigation found that Erik T. Voorhees published prospectuses on the Internet and actively solicited investors to buy shares in SatoshiDICE and FeedZeBirds.  But he failed to register the offerings with the SEC as required under the federal securities laws.

What sites like dice.ninja were offering wasn't anything like a share offering (it's more like a long-standing bet against the regular dice players) and so I doubt the SEC would be interested.

My first response was too quick, and I didn't see this response until I continued reading, so I'll go into more detail.

It seems what is throwing people off is the term "share offering." Shares are just one type of security, and the SEC's purview is all securities. For example, corporations have "shares." Limited liability companies have "interests." It's just how the businesses are structured, but both shares and interests entitle stakeholders to a portion of profits. Both are securities, and both are under the jurisdiction of the SEC because it regulates all securities.

Also, there are ways to structure businesses so that what you own is not a portion of the business itself (that is your shares/interests don't entitle you to vote on business decisions) but only entitle you to a share of the profits or losses of the business. This is certainly how the dice sites are structured. You don't own any part of the site, just the profit/loss. But that ownership you bought into is still a security.

The way JD, DD, DN, DB, ED and every other site that takes investments and allocates a share of profits based on that investment is structured is as a security. You can call the "unit" whatever you want: shares, interests, percentage... that doesn't matter. The SEC calls it a security.

If you're interested, here is the exact definition of "security" from the 1933 Securities Act, Section 2(a)(1):

The term “security” means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.

"Participation in any profit-sharing agreement." You can call it whatever you want, but it's definitely this. That means it's definitely an unregistered security.

[sherbyspark]

Even though there is sufficient proof. [...] There is no solid evidence against AK [...]

Aren't you contradicting yourself there?

If there's no solid evidence, how is there sufficient proof?

Sorry, I meant sufficient evidence to convince, but not enough to take legal action against someone.

[Dabs]

wait that site scammed? was just a matter of time, it did not look too inviting for me from the beginning on.
How many coins have been stolen? The owner just disappeared?

The ninjas took about 2000 coins and disappeared. Like ninjas. I'm going to be samurai. We hunt down ninjas.

The way JD, DD, DN, DB, ED and every other site that takes investments and allocates a share of profits based on that investment is structured is as a security. You can call the "unit" whatever you want: shares, interests, percentage... that doesn't matter. The SEC calls it a security.

"Participation in any profit-sharing agreement." You can call it whatever you want, but it's definitely this. That means it's definitely an unregistered security.

How about if we call it, like Baccarat Punto Banco, and it's actually a bet? You bet against other players. That's essentially what you're doing when you contribute to the bankroll of these dice sites.

[dooglus]

there are ways to structure businesses so that what you own is not a portion of the business itself [...] but only entitle you to a share of the profits or losses of the business. This is certainly how the dice sites are structured. You don't own any part of the site, just the profit/loss.

Your return as a dice site "investor" isn't based on the site's profit. It completely ignores all the site's expenses. The "investor" is just a counterparty to the "players". You can see them as another type of gambler.

Any profit the site makes can only be calculated after taking off expenses (hosting costs, advertising, staff, etc.) and isn't at all what the "investors" get a share of.

[jaysabi]

wait that site scammed? was just a matter of time, it did not look too inviting for me from the beginning on.
How many coins have been stolen? The owner just disappeared?

The ninjas took about 2000 coins and disappeared. Like ninjas. I'm going to be samurai. We hunt down ninjas.

The way JD, DD, DN, DB, ED and every other site that takes investments and allocates a share of profits based on that investment is structured is as a security. You can call the "unit" whatever you want: shares, interests, percentage... that doesn't matter. The SEC calls it a security.

"Participation in any profit-sharing agreement." You can call it whatever you want, but it's definitely this. That means it's definitely an unregistered security.

How about if we call it, like Baccarat Punto Banco, and it's actually a bet? You bet against other players. That's essentially what you're doing when you contribute to the bankroll of these dice sites.

Again, it doesn't matter what you call it. The SEC's definition is in black and white. It only matters what they call it. There have been a lot richer and smarter people (with A LOT more money at stake) trying to massage the definition of "security" since it was written in 1933. Alas, a security is a security.

[jaysabi]

there are ways to structure businesses so that what you own is not a portion of the business itself [...] but only entitle you to a share of the profits or losses of the business. This is certainly how the dice sites are structured. You don't own any part of the site, just the profit/loss.

Your return as a dice site "investor" isn't based on the site's profit. It completely ignores all the site's expenses. The "investor" is just a counterparty to the "players". You can see them as another type of gambler.

Any profit the site makes can only be calculated after taking off expenses (hosting costs, advertising, staff, etc.) and isn't at all what the "investors" get a share of.

This is true, but this is analogous (but not identical) to a dual-class structure. The "owners" of the site have expenses related to their ownership of the business itself, while the non-voting class interests aren't tied to that portion of the business, just the gambling side where the profits or losses are on betting. In reality, I can't think of a situation where a business would structure things in such a way, as it's disadvantageous for the owners of the business. However, that doesn't change the facts the most important facts of the situation, which revolve around profit-sharing. It's just that you calculate the profits you're paying out differently.

In practice, you're paying for part of the business's expenses out of your own pocket (how kind!) and not considering "business profit" and "site profit" to be the same, but it doesn't change the fact that you're offering a portion of profits (a "profit-sharing agreement" as the SEC would call it). It's just you've structured your book-keeping in a way so as to be more advantageous to investors than it needed to be. Although, I might offer that your 10% claim on investor profits pretty-much makes this line of thinking moot. In any event, non-traditional bookkeeping doesn't excuse you from the definition of security (this would be an easy out, wouldn't it?).

[BBmmBB]

The speed at which this has descended into bullshit is remarkable.

Maybe that's his intention. I hope for his sake that he's a paid troll doing this to disrupt the community rather than just some asshole with mental health issues.

After all most a year of watching this fucktard I'm honestly going to have to lean towards actual mental health issues... but it is a good thing that Bitcoin doesn't discriminate against retards, so I guess that is a plus.

dooglus just pretends to be retarded .. it's an act !!!     Lets let the courts decide!!!

[BBmmBB]

Ok, so I have more to sort through after I sleep that proves the point, but to me it's pretty obvious who is was behind this:


https://i.imgur.com/mvnWx3n.png


AKcoinminer/JoeMattie/sixthtry/DMF/MCsnugs/??? was always the first one to bring these sites to people attention while usually pretending to stumble across them nonchalantly:

https://i.imgur.com/jzy9o04.png

He has a seemingly endless supply of usernames that are also closely tied to them:

https://i.imgur.com/QyNXBZ3.png
https://i.imgur.com/Ik6j0OW.png

And he shared the same ip with DMF, etc.

Under the AKcoinminer name he was known to lose lots of money and gamble a ton of money on those sites....which would end up back in his pocket anyways if he lost, so win-win for him and the site's appearance.

For some reason he also deleted the bitcoin group he was a member of off of his LinkedIn shortly after he was accused here.


I might have more, but the amount of tabs open in my browser since this happened is ridiculous there are files everywhere that I need to sort.  I believe there is another incriminating chat log somewhere but I couldn't find the one I was looking for tonight.

yes he "lost" ridiculous amounts on just-dice doge-dice primedice.com and the list goes on !!! ...i'm glad i'm not the only one who can recognize this !!!  I also caught him using my name on tothemoon.is ... Chris "dooglus" Moore is the common thread here !!! :\

[BBmmBB]

i think someone should talk to jeremy hise.....

if it isnt this guy then he has no problem telling us its not him.





can someone do this? it will help the thread go in the right direction.. whatever that direction may be

i called his office yesterday ... http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/92229.html  <---- anyone else want to call too?  tia


*honestly it may of been a cheap attempt of throwing people off the trail of Joe Mattie ?  lets find out!!!

[BBmmBB]

i think someone should talk to jeremy hise.....

if it isnt this guy then he has no problem telling us its not him.

Someone did post that they contacted the lady in the photo, but seems no one has been able to contact the guy directly. Contacting him would definitely simplify things.

been calling both !!! ... we well find out soon !!! >>>> all together now !!!