Financial Risk Analytics-Subscription Service

[User705]

Bitcoin

 

 

Shouldn't this topic be moved to an offtopic section?
It's been "write a random red word" for more than a year now. It'd fit nicely alongside topics like:
Let's Count to 21 Million with Images
What Song are you Listening To?

And so let me continue the game: Tiruppur

I think you have to be a hero member to understand.   

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[cypherdoc]

Bitcoin

 

What? I was right,  wasn't I?

[cypherdoc]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

1BTC/mo

[cypherdoc]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

Why don't you make your outdated predictions public? That way every potential customer can validate your historical performance before subscribing.
If they're outdated, you shouldn't have any business in keeping it secret.

No, because there is a system or logic in place that can last long periods of time.  For instance, I don't recommend people trading normally at any time period shorter than intermediate.

[S3052]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

Why don't you make your outdated predictions public? That way every potential customer can validate your historical performance before subscribing.
If they're outdated, you shouldn't have any business in keeping it secret.

You can try out bitcoinbullbear.com by digitalcurrencyresearch.com
With historical performances and 50% more attractive prices instead: 0.55 BTC per month

[cypherdoc]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

Why don't you make your outdated predictions public? That way every potential customer can validate your historical performance before subscribing.
If they're outdated, you shouldn't have any business in keeping it secret.

You can try out bitcoinbullbear.com by digitalcurrencyresearch.com
With historical performances and 50% more attractive prices instead: 0.55 BTC per month

thx for advertising directly in my thread.  that's ballsy.  i guess you want to take this to a whole new level.

[S3052]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

Why don't you make your outdated predictions public? That way every potential customer can validate your historical performance before subscribing.
If they're outdated, you shouldn't have any business in keeping it secret.

You can try out bitcoinbullbear.com by digitalcurrencyresearch.com
With historical performances and 50% more attractive prices instead: 0.55 BTC per month

thx for advertising directly in my thread.  that's ballsy.  i guess you want to take this to a whole new level.

Let's just make sure customers get the facts :
1) they have a right to understand that there is a great bitcoin and other financial market analysis service out there that costs almost 50% less than yours. This is a public thread and this is why it is possible to mention it here
2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

I am happy to continue this conversation privately if you wish.

Anyway, I wish you all the best for the future as we are both bitcoin lovers and competition is always good.

[cypherdoc]

Whats your price for subscriptions now?

You really should throw up atleast a static webpage with this information so possible customers like I dont have to keep asking. (I could do it for you cheaply in an hour).

Why don't you make your outdated predictions public? That way every potential customer can validate your historical performance before subscribing.
If they're outdated, you shouldn't have any business in keeping it secret.

You can try out bitcoinbullbear.com by digitalcurrencyresearch.com
With historical performances and 50% more attractive prices instead: 0.55 BTC per month

thx for advertising directly in my thread.  that's ballsy.  i guess you want to take this to a whole new level.

Let's just make sure customers get the facts :
1) they have a right to understand that there is a great bitcoin and other financial market analysis service out there that costs almost 50% less than yours. This is a public thread and this is why it is possible to mention it here
2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

I am happy to continue this conversation privately if you wish.

Anyway, I wish you all the best for the future as we are both bitcoin lovers and competition is always good.

that's incorrect.  i never said i wouldn't cover Bitcoin.  how ridiculous is that in a Bitcoin forum?  and how am i actually beholden to you in any way?

yes, you shared with me an Excel spreadsheet about how you keep track of customer payments.  but how complicated was it?  just a simple listing of customers across the top in columns with date of monthly payment down the side in rows.  no macros, nothing special.  anything a 4th grader would set up.

so if you feel i somehow owe you something for that, i think you are delusional.

and why is this all such a big problem now?  a year and a half later from my starting.  

what's really disappointing is that you started this whole thing by complaining to BadBear behind my back about how i was running the thread w/o bothering to approach me first.

and this part about coming into my thread to advertise b/c it is somehow a public forum?  that's just indecent and provocative.  something i would never have done to you.  except maybe now as payback.  even then, i doubt it.

[cypherdoc]

2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

there happen to be a boatload of ppl who currently or in the past have subbed to both our letters.  

there is not one of them who could possibly step forward and substantiate your claim that they are similar in any way or that i stole something proprietary from you.

stop being ridiculous and delusional.

[vokain]

2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

there happen to be a boatload of ppl who currently or in the past have subbed to both our letters.  

there is not one of them who could possibly step forward and substantiate your claim that they are similar in any way or that i stole something proprietary from you.

stop being ridiculous and delusional.

I subscribed this month to S3052's just to see what the newsletter had to say, and though I do like it, I don't think you can say that you can say that cypher stole such a generic template. Yeah, you guys cover stocks and PMs, and yeah, you guys cover Bitcoin. They're all interconnected, how can you blame cypher for covering bitcoin too? Why not get mad at Waveaddict then? Honestly, we'd all be better off if we worked together, no need to be unconstructively competitive by bickering at each other. It's not like any one of you guys is stealing the other guy's material and insights. In the end, what the hell are we all here for if not to help each other? All in all, I think you'd benefit from subscribing to each others newsletters every so often and trying to improve your own newsletter because you each have certain strengths and certain weaknesses, you all have something to learn from each other.  I know I've learned something from each of you.

Here are my impressions:
cypher, you're usually not very ambiguous, which I like. You stick to your decisions and back them up with solid reasoning, and you tend to be right, though timing is usually a bit iffy. Also, for some reason, maybe because you get tired of tooting the same horn over and over, to not keep up with the same quality you had when I first subscribed. I politely request that you cover non-bitcoin markets more than you do now. I know you sort of dropped off on that because you felt that your readers only really cared about BTC, but I do like watching the stock, bond, and PM markets and would appreciate more coverage of that like you did every so often throughout the day.  I also get really confused when you say your all-in leveraged shorts were up for the day, yet I have no idea what those were. I think what I like best about you though is that you're conversational and I know you're another human being on the other side of those emails, and you do talk in a simple manner sorta like a doctor to his patient who has his patient's best interests at heart. It's a a nice feeling.

s3052, i like your analyses, but you do play both sides so you can't ever be "wrong". Is this wrong? Nah, I don't blame you. You keep your readers aware of both sides of the card, and it helps you have your personal probability for each scenario. Even so, your analyses have been more detailed then cypher's to date and you assuredly emphasize technical analysis more than he does.  Like WA's newsletter, you keep up a sort of summary newsletter you update as needed, which is really cool and easy to keep track of. Very professional. On average, quality wise, I'd say that you definitely best cypher at this point, especially for your price. I don't think cypher really cares about the number of subscribers he has though, as his sub service is something done out of amateurism (in the literal sense of the word). He does not need that as a source of income, though it's an appreciable amount I'm sure. That is not to say cypherdoc's newsletter isn't worth the premium over your price however. Like I said, you all have different strengths and you all have at least something to learn from each other.

waveaddict, I'm not very partial to your newsletter but there are other things that have been immensely valuable to me, things that have already paid itself over multiple times my sub cost of $210 over six months. You have a fantastic handle on wave analysis and I appreciate that you have indirectly provided me the means to learn how to myself. Perhaps coverage of good opportunities in imminent wave 3 movements would provide more value to your newsletter. Otherwise, to be honest, I don't even read your newsletter every time you update it.

[smoothie]

Bitcoin

 

What? I was right,  wasn't I?

  Cypher, yes you were absolutely right. Don't misinterpret my emoticon. It was perhaps a free bump for your thread.  

[smoothie]

2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

there happen to be a boatload of ppl who currently or in the past have subbed to both our letters.  

there is not one of them who could possibly step forward and substantiate your claim that they are similar in any way or that i stole something proprietary from you.

stop being ridiculous and delusional.

I can vouch for Cypher on this one as I have subscribed to both subscriptions simultaneously and there is nothing "stolen" or "taken" from one newsletter to another in anyway other than the use of the term "Bitcoin" and Bitcoin coverage in their own respective approaches.

 

[S3052]

2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

there happen to be a boatload of ppl who currently or in the past have subbed to both our letters.  

there is not one of them who could possibly step forward and substantiate your claim that they are similar in any way or that i stole something proprietary from you.

stop being ridiculous and delusional.

I can vouch for Cypher on this one as I have subscribed to both subscriptions simultaneously and there is nothing "stolen" or "taken" from one newsletter to another in anyway other than the use of the term "Bitcoin" and Bitcoin coverage in their own respective approaches.

 

To clarify as there is a misunderstanding :

1) he did not copy any of the content of the analysis
2) what happened is that he asked me to explain in depth how to set up a subscription model and process. We had  a 60-90 minutes Skype call where he asked all questions about it and i answered them in good faith since I (wrongly ) assumed that he won't start to cover bitcoin
My mistake.

[smoothie]

2) I shared all the insights and even my template with you when you were about to start your service. At that time, you said that you will only cover other markets excluding bitcoin. Then you started it and added bitcoin , competing with us against your initial plan. If I knew you would cover bitcoin upfront, I would have never helped you getting your business off the ground. Now you may say that you wouldn't have needed it, but I am disappointed about the lack of honesty.

there happen to be a boatload of ppl who currently or in the past have subbed to both our letters.  

there is not one of them who could possibly step forward and substantiate your claim that they are similar in any way or that i stole something proprietary from you.

stop being ridiculous and delusional.

I can vouch for Cypher on this one as I have subscribed to both subscriptions simultaneously and there is nothing "stolen" or "taken" from one newsletter to another in anyway other than the use of the term "Bitcoin" and Bitcoin coverage in their own respective approaches.

 

To clarify as there is a misunderstanding :

1) he did not copy any of the content of the analysis
2) what happened is that he asked me to explain in depth how to set up a subscription model and process. We had  a 60-90 minutes Skype call where he asked all questions about it and i answered them in good faith since I (wrongly ) assumed that he won't start to cover bitcoin
My mistake.

Perhaps the exact same thing that happened in this thread (the misunderstanding) was the same in your 60-90 minute Skype call. Even if there was a verbal agreement I still don't see how that is in anyway binding nor outside of the free-market system where businesses/competition thrive based on their merits. The weak/incompetent get eaten and put out of business and the smart/intelligent thrive.

If what you claim did happen concerning Cypher saying he would not cover bitcoin in his newletter, why did you wait about a year and a half to mention it publicly? This question begs to be answered if you so choose to. No pressure.

In the end talk is cheap. Actions speak louder. Simple truth in the world we live in.

In no way am I taking sides, just merely giving my view on the "truth" and "facts".

[S3052]

Thanks for those questions. They are absolutely valid :



1) on the timing of talking about this: i have seen cypherdoc changing his position multiple times: first he tells me 1.5 years ago he wants to cover other markets ex bitcoin . Second he starts covering bitcoins some months later . Third he says about 3-6 months ago that he will never change his 2.5 BTC per month pricing even if he loses all subscribers as it is only his hobby . Fourth some weeks ago he drops his price which shows that he changed his mind and gets into the competitive position again. It is because of that recent development that I am also stepping up competitiveness.

2) on the phone conversation: no one can prove what was said and like you said it is a great learning for me. I was too naive believing into what he said holds true. Believe me I am not that stupid. If I had the perception that he would start doing a paid bitcoin analysis service like me I would never have agreed to talk with h on the phone.
Anyway I am not fearing competition as we at DCR continue to serve our clients in the best way we can and we want to keep extending our clear market leadership as most followed service.

Anyway, as I said it is my fault but I am still disappointed about cypherdocs practices . The world is dishonest and money / capitalism rules everything - very unfortunately.
On the positive side, bitcoin P2P system is honest and that is why I continue to support it. I love bitcoin.

[vokain]

honestly the 1BTC/mo thing might've been because of me. I asked him to lower his prices a bit if I would be subscribed for the rest of 2013, at least for me, as a starving student :p he lowered it across the board for everyone to be fair I imagine. He also extended his sub until at least early 2014 perhaps because 1+ of his subbers value him for various reasons and requested him to keep going via prepayment. I think that's a serious testament to his value.

i don't think you can say doing things that make decent business sense such as covering bitcoin and changing a price is selfish and capitalistic (in the derogatory sense at least). The Doc's a good guy, he's not out to poach your customers clearly. Why can't you see helping out cypher with the skype conversation as helping out another guy that is actively helping the Bitcoin community in his own way? Because clearly, that's what has happened thus far.

On the positive side, bitcoin P2P system is honest and that is why I continue to support it. I love bitcoin.

And S3052, you got me and smoothie as customers (at one point or another at least), I'd say business has been fair, no?

[cypherdoc]

arghhh.  what a waste of time this is turning out to be.  

folks, right up until July 10, i was minding my own business not having interacted with S3052 at all in any negative way.  then, i get a pm from BadBear saying my thread bumps were going to be limited to once per day.  naturally, i asked why.  he said "someone" had complained.  i asked who.  he said he wouldn't tell me.  well, it was S3052.  ok fine.  i complied even though i know of at least one of my subs complained about the new restriction to BadBear.  

then on July 19, S3052 enters my thread and says this:

"I must say that I find it unfair practice to bump that thread so frequently. If intended or not, it provides an advantage to others, including me. I have refrained from doing that regularly, but we only have two choices:

Get a moderator to intervene with cypher docs practice or if not, we will likely see all analysts bumping their threads more and more.

I don't want that and I also don't think we should ask people to delete all their posts just to avoid this issue. This is just my honest pov."

my question to S3052 is why didn't he admit he'd already complained to a moderator, at least 9d or more prior?  if he'd had taken the time to notice, i had already been limiting my bumps to once a day since July 10 so at that point his perception of the problem was moot.  i actually understand how the bumping might irritate him, which is why i immediately complied and did not make a stink of it.

Thanks for those questions. They are absolutely valid :



1) on the timing of talking about this: i have seen cypherdoc changing his position multiple times: first he tells me 1.5 years ago he wants to cover other markets ex bitcoin . Second he starts covering bitcoins some months later . Third he says about 3-6 months ago that he will never change his 2.5 BTC per month pricing even if he loses all subscribers as it is only his hobby . Fourth some weeks ago he drops his price which shows that he changed his mind and gets into the competitive position again. It is because of that recent development that I am also stepping up competitiveness.

S3052, ppl want me to cover Bitcoin.  they've specifically asked me to cover Bitcoin.  i'm sorry you got the impression that i would never, ever cover Bitcoin.  this really shouldn't be that big a problem for you to carry out such "highly competitive" actions against me.  the marketplace is plenty big enough and we both aren't suffering from the competition.  at least i know i'm not.

2) on the phone conversation: no one can prove what was said and like you said it is a great learning for me. I was too naive believing into what he said holds true. Believe me I am not that stupid. If I had the perception that he would start doing a paid bitcoin analysis service like me I would never have agreed to talk with h on the phone.
Anyway I am not fearing competition as we at DCR continue to serve our clients in the best way we can and we want to keep extending our clear market leadership as most followed service.

pray tell, what is it specifically in that Skype conversation is it that you think you revealed to me that was critical to getting my letter get off the ground?  i specifically want an answer to this.  you make it sound like you revealed some sort of proprietary info to me that i stole.  everything about my letter, from the OP, to the structure of the updates, to this thread, and it's price is totally different from how you do yours.  my recollection of that conversation is that i wanted your perspective on what it was like to deal in a BTC only business and the risks involved in that.  certainly i valued your opinion and it was helpful.  in fact, i thought we had hit it off from a friendly standpoint and never thought you'd take my subsequent inclusion of Bitcoin services in my letter so negatively.  and mind you, i never made any promises or made an agreement with you that i wouldn't include Bitcoin.  in fact, during that Skype conversation you offered to bring me into the umbrella of your newsletter as a stock and bond analyst.  i thought that was very generous and nice.  most of the conversation revolved around how we might accomplish that.

Anyway, as I said it is my fault but I am still disappointed about cypherdocs practices . The world is dishonest and money / capitalism rules everything - very unfortunately.
On the positive side, bitcoin P2P system is honest and that is why I continue to support it. I love bitcoin.

since our original Skype conversation, at least twice and maybe 3x, you have offered to join forces with me again in a combined newsletter.  the most recent one being around Dec 2012 iirc.  those overtures are totally inconsistent with what i'm getting here which confuses me.  the reason i haven't accepted is that, and here is where it pains me to say this, i perceive an insecurity in you.  by that i mean that everytime i've mentioned some significant event that happened in the marketplace during our three Skype conversations, you've had to jump in and say "i called that".  and this is in front of Eric, too.  i see it in your thread as well.  statements like "as predicted" or "as called".  you never mention any of the misses.  you do miss calls don't you?  it's unnecessary and imo gives the impression of insecurity or a desire to one up others.  i see it in the title of your thread "#1 Most Popular".  waveaddict complained to you about this as have i yet you continue to use it.  how can you prove this and what objective measures do you use?  even in the post here that i'm responding to, you end it by making this declaration of "we want to keep extending our clear market leadership as most followed service".  what proof do you have?  is this misleading and shameless advertising?

in this thread, i don't do that even when i'm right back when i was bumping.  i'll be the first to admit that i am probably the most sensitive to how you are acting and perhaps biased in my observations, so take this with a grain of salt and others can make their own judgments.  but it does bother me.

as for the 2.5 to 1.0 BTC thing.  everyone should note that i never told S3052 this directly.  i did tell Eric, his partner/biller, at the conference that the plan back in May was to wind the letter down by the end of year.  i find it to be a tremendous amount of work and i do it more out of passion than a need.  sure enough, maintaining the cost @ 2.5 was too high and subscribership was dwindling.  the mistake i made was accepting certain subs that wanted to pay out for an entire year into 2014 or until the end of this year which they actually did.  so i was faced with putting all this work into a letter that would be subscribed to by a tiny number of dedicated subs who didn't care about the price of 2.5 BTC/mo.  instead of putting all that work in for just a few, i decided just last month to lower the price to attract more subs to make it worth my time and allow me to spread my insight.  it's worked and i'm back to a nice stable of subs that value my work and make it worth the time i put into it.  and yes, i immediately refunded the guy who paid 2.5/mo to the end of this year.  i've compensated by lowering the pressure on myself to publish every day, hence Vokain's comment on decreased quality.  @Vokain: if you'll notice if you look carefully, i'm trying to publish when there is something significant to say, not just multiple times daily b/c that was what i was doing in the past.  this takes the pressure off and makes it more pleasurable.  you of all ppl, know just how busy i am.  also as a result of the new pricing @ 1BTC/mo, i now have someone who prepaid a year out to July 2014 so it looks like i'm not going anywhere.

S3052, i think you are being way too harsh with this.  up until one month, i still considered you my friend and a fully competent and ethical competitor.  i still think we have a chance to re-establish that connection we once had.  but it is totally up to you to stop these underhanded techniques to compete.

[S3052]

I'd live to have a call with you to talk this 1on1 with you
I'd also like to maintain a friendly relationship with you.
I am available every evening from Fri-Sun this weekend. Just let me know when you have 30 minutes.

[vokain]

@Vokain: if you'll notice if you look carefully, i'm trying to publish when there is something significant to say, not just multiple times daily b/c that was what i was doing in the past.  this takes the pressure off and makes it more pleasurable.  you of all ppl, know just how busy i am.  also as a result of the new pricing @ 1BTC/mo, i now have someone who prepaid a year out to July 2014 so it looks like i'm not going anywhere.

Yes! Nothing should be more important than the utmost priority for your job, you have a primary career that demands that. What I mean to say, I've been subscribed for long enough to follow everything you publish, but I suppose if someone new wanted to join they'd likely be turned off without the same foundational understanding you were more likely to pass off when I was first subscribed in October..I just talked to a person that thought so is all.

[S3052]

hi.

I reported you to a moderator using the "Report to Moderator" link some time ago. Probably late June/ early July.
Didn't like coming to speculation to see a thread with nothing inherently useful for speculation.
Just so you know its not only your competitor that dislikes your practices - its your potential customers.

Back to minding my own business. Thanks.

I will try to find a solution with cypherdoc and asked him to have a call with me. Because you are right, this daily bumping creates awareness for new potential customers (even if some people including me hate it as it woes not add value). Hence, it would be good to find an agreement to ideally limit posts that have no real content.