[Bitshares] bitUSD discussion

[ChuckOne]

Statements such as:

...

do not inspire confidence, I have to say. They rather tell me that people endorsing this system do have intentions I am not willing to share.

They do not want to change the status quo but rather repeat history and pull out money from people.


As usual I am concerned, so the best way out I know is asking.

"they" here is a random pumping zealot, not a member of the team

Alright. But he seems pretty confident about his "idea".

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[FandangledGizmo]

4/5+ of biTshares' volume comes from Chinese exchanges. 

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

Actually it's less than that if we look at top 5 (Poloniex is only $14K versus $2+ million).  Practically all the Bitshare trading is done on Chinese exchanges which are alleged to engage in manipulation.

How Big is the NXT Chinese community on your forums?
Maybe you should look at ours...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=4.0

Btc38 also has an English site, so I've traded on there myself, including BTSX/CNY because of volumes.

You NXT guys are awesome

That wasn't really my point.  I know that most of NXT volume is Chinese too much not to the same extent.  Maybe only $10K - $15K is non-Chinese volume.

When the Chinese are spending like $2+ million volume on Bitshares (while non-Chinese is like $10K-$15K), it makes us wonder if this is all manipulation or a lot of future Chinese bagholders.

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

[ChuckOne]

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

Guys, if you want to talk about prices and volumes, this is off-topic here.

[PilotofBTC]

4/5+ of biTshares' volume comes from Chinese exchanges. 

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

Actually it's less than that if we look at top 5 (Poloniex is only $14K versus $2+ million).  Practically all the Bitshare trading is done on Chinese exchanges which are alleged to engage in manipulation.

How Big is the NXT Chinese community on your forums?
Maybe you should look at ours...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=4.0

Btc38 also has an English site, so I've traded on there myself, including BTSX/CNY because of volumes.

You NXT guys are awesome

Judge individuals, not groups.

[PilotofBTC]

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

That old saw? Can't the same be said about BTC? NXT is much more distributed now than what it was forever ago. Although, BTC isn't.

[TaunSew]

4/5+ of biTshares' volume comes from Chinese exchanges.  

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

Actually it's less than that if we look at top 5 (Poloniex is only $14K versus $2+ million).  Practically all the Bitshare trading is done on Chinese exchanges which are alleged to engage in manipulation.

How Big is the NXT Chinese community on your forums?
Maybe you should look at ours...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=4.0

Btc38 also has an English site, so I've traded on there myself, including BTSX/CNY because of volumes.

You NXT guys are awesome

That wasn't really my point.  I know that most of NXT volume is Chinese too much not to the same extent.  Maybe only $10K - $15K is non-Chinese volume.

When the Chinese are spending like $2+ million volume on Bitshares (while non-Chinese is like $10K-$15K), it makes us wonder if this is all manipulation or a lot of future Chinese bagholders.

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

The distribution was of a different scale but there were whales in both Angelshares and PTS and they were transferred over to BTSx.  Much like there are buy threads where people have bought 3%+ of BTSx.

It's irrelevant if a distribution is 75 or 500 as a coin isn't killed by its' scale of users but whether how many whales there are and how much confidence they have in a coin and if there is enough subsequent buyers to buy them out when they dump.  I don't see that being the case here as the main reason for huge BTSx volume is a combination of Chinese funds (there's posts on BTSx proving it) and possible manipulation by the exchanges.

That means the funds are either going to dump as soon as they realize enough profit or the lack of subsequent volume will drive prices down as there'll be no more premium buyers.


BTW - NXT was $90 million in early June and had similar volume.  

[zorco]

Actually, I do not speculate on things like those but regarding the recent upsurge of the trust in BitShares I am curious about the opinion and insights of others.

I mean how could anybody in the crypto community would want to mirror the FED?

I cannot believe that to be true.

Precisely.  Anyone who has done their homework and spent any time at all on bitsharestalk.org over the past year knows that BitShares is the antidote to the Federal Reserve's 100+ years of economic atrocities.  

But do yourselves a favor and study before you decide if this is the Next Big Thing or not.  

"Knowledge and Understanding is the ultimate Proof of Work."  

I am not sure if it is an antidote or just a replacement that changes nothing.

Not sure if you read http://invictus-innovations.com/bitshares-as-dac-bank/

But fractional reserve lending is about robbing the wealth of others. I am not sure if that is in the best interest of the crypto community.

lol so you read that article and you are saying  that : "how could anybody in the crypto community would want to mirror the FED?" ...  I'm sorry but you completely got it wrong. You probably should read it again.

[PilotofBTC]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

[FandangledGizmo]

4/5+ of biTshares' volume comes from Chinese exchanges.  

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

Actually it's less than that if we look at top 5 (Poloniex is only $14K versus $2+ million).  Practically all the Bitshare trading is done on Chinese exchanges which are alleged to engage in manipulation.

How Big is the NXT Chinese community on your forums?
Maybe you should look at ours...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=4.0

Btc38 also has an English site, so I've traded on there myself, including BTSX/CNY because of volumes.

You NXT guys are awesome

That wasn't really my point.  I know that most of NXT volume is Chinese too much not to the same extent.  Maybe only $10K - $15K is non-Chinese volume.

When the Chinese are spending like $2+ million volume on Bitshares (while non-Chinese is like $10K-$15K), it makes us wonder if this is all manipulation or a lot of future Chinese bagholders.

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

The distribution was of a different scale but there were whales in both Angelshares and PTS and they were transferred over to BTSx.  Much like there are buy threads where people have bought 3%+ of BTSx.

It's irrelevant if a distribution is 75 or 500 as a coin isn't killed by its' scale of users but whether how many whales there are and how much confidence they have in a coin and if there is enough subsequent buyers to buy them out when they dump.  I don't see that being the case here as the main reason for huge BTSx volume is a combination of Chinese funds (there's posts on BTSx proving it) and manipulation by the exchanges.

That means the funds are either going to dump as soon as they realize enough profit or the lack of subsequent volume will drive prices down as there'll be no more premium buyers.


BTW - NXT was $90 million in early June and had similar volume.  

There could certainly be a major correction after such a rapid climb and I don't reccomend anyone invest in something because it's high/made gains. I also suggest people try to learn about BitAssets on the forum & do their due diligence.

The reasons it's high though imo is that BitAssets are starting Monday probably,  if they work well it's a game changer.

I suggest people try look into them over the weekend or believe ChuckOne and TaunSew and stay in NXT etc. next week for the launch...

[zorco]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

[PilotofBTC]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?

[ChuckOne]

@FandangledGizmo

I do not know what I tell what people could believe. I was asking a question.

[TaunSew]

4/5+ of biTshares' volume comes from Chinese exchanges.  

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

Actually it's less than that if we look at top 5 (Poloniex is only $14K versus $2+ million).  Practically all the Bitshare trading is done on Chinese exchanges which are alleged to engage in manipulation.

How Big is the NXT Chinese community on your forums?
Maybe you should look at ours...
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=4.0

Btc38 also has an English site, so I've traded on there myself, including BTSX/CNY because of volumes.

You NXT guys are awesome

That wasn't really my point.  I know that most of NXT volume is Chinese too much not to the same extent.  Maybe only $10K - $15K is non-Chinese volume.

When the Chinese are spending like $2+ million volume on Bitshares (while non-Chinese is like $10K-$15K), it makes us wonder if this is all manipulation or a lot of future Chinese bagholders.

Lol, the reason NXT has consistently low volumes on any exchange when compared to any other crypto is because you had terrible initial distribution. (21 BTC raised & 75 people max or something.) So you have a very low amount circulating compared to other alts.

The distribution was of a different scale but there were whales in both Angelshares and PTS and they were transferred over to BTSx.  Much like there are buy threads where people have bought 3%+ of BTSx.

It's irrelevant if a distribution is 75 or 500 as a coin isn't killed by its' scale of users but whether how many whales there are and how much confidence they have in a coin and if there is enough subsequent buyers to buy them out when they dump.  I don't see that being the case here as the main reason for huge BTSx volume is a combination of Chinese funds (there's posts on BTSx proving it) and manipulation by the exchanges.

That means the funds are either going to dump as soon as they realize enough profit or the lack of subsequent volume will drive prices down as there'll be no more premium buyers.


BTW - NXT was $90 million in early June and had similar volume.  

There could certainly be a major correction after such a rapid climb and I don't reccomend anyone invest in something because it's high/made gains. I also suggest people try to learn about BitAssets on the forum & do their due diligence.

The reasons it's high though imo is that BitAssets are starting Monday probably,  if they work well it's a game changer.

I suggest people try look into them over the weekend or believe ChuckOne and TaunSew and stay in NXT etc. next week for the launch...

Oh sure.  I see the rhetoric here.  Yeah don't listen to ChuckOne or TaunSew, sell your house and put it into BitShares.  Get all yo gold and put it into BitShares, this thing is gonna hit $1 trillion in the next 30 days!  Buy now it just went up another 10% in the last minute!!

 Most people have nothing to gain from buying what is obviously a speculative hype bubble at the top of it.  You don't know $hit anymore then I do as bitAssets isn't released until monday.

This is the same 'tard speculative buy that happens in every alternate each time there's 'good news'.

 Dogecoin went up because they sponsored a bunch of Jamaicans at the Olympics and it was all internal users (existing users) buying into what they felt would be subsequent users racing in to buy Doge at a premium  This BitsharesX stuff is no different.  There's more speculators than users in this current market and when the speculator bubble pops there's often a huge correction.

[ChuckOne]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?

The idea I cannot go away (at least not that easily) like gold.

[TaunSew]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?

The idea I cannot go away (at least not that easily) like gold.

What intrinsic value does a stock give me?  At least decades ago it used to be all paper and you could burn the paper for heat or worse case scenario consume it if there was no food nearby. 

After all do you know what paper money actually is?  It is Federal Reserve exchange notes, not much different in principle from a lot of stocks out there (especially those that don't issue dividend).


That's a rhetorical answer of course.  Most of the things in our society are technically ponzi schemes based on the scarcity principle.  

[FandangledGizmo]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Yeah, I can always be wrong on technical descriptions but I think it goes like this.

Bitcoin doesn't have a system for implementing something like BitAssets.
But it's essentially similar to someone with Bitcoin, saying 'this is too volatile' or 'I'd rather hold some of my Bitcoin in an anothe asset that stores and tracks the value of gold.' Unfortunately there hasn't been a decentralised way to do that till now.

At it's simplest level you find a person who wants to short that asset relative to Bitcoin and they lock up some Bitcoin to provide collateral if the market moves against them. Then their collateral is used to cover the trade if it moves against them and vice versa. By doing it as a market when more collateral is needed whenever a new trade is done it backs the asset at any price.

So there's no fractional reserve as claimed by OP. The reserves for the trade are there and so much in fact that BitUSD can never make up more than 30% of the system because of the reserves required to back it.

So it's just an amazing way to store the value of assets in a decentralised way that's never been possible before. It's pretty game changing in countries where capital controls are in place or there are foreign currency restrictions.

So the anonymity, speed & value of BitAssets is huge in a place like China, hence the excitement and interest.
But Argentina and other places like it will probably go crazy for BitAssets too if the system works well.

It's probably being turned on, on Monday. So investing now, means you'll believe it will work. So you should study it more before you invest imo.

[zorco]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?

lol well for this "nothing" people are paying 500$ a piece.  The  intrinsic value is Block chain technology and what you can do with it.

[TaunSew]

It's not a question of IF something will work (something broken is a problem, though).

It's a question of IF something brings utility to the mass market and if the mass market is utilizing this service.  The NXT asset exchange as far as I can tell works extremely well.  Much like BitSharesX's bitassets may work.  The reality is asset trading just doesn't appeal to the plurality.  It's also reinventing the wheel as if I really wanted to trade $USD then I would use real exchanges and not a crypto.

Main reason people went into cryptos was to escape the inflation of the $Fiat. Why do I need to deal with assets and other gimmicks when they already work pretty well themselves in the real world?


It's also a question of IF something is proprietary.  The first mover advantage is great but what stops NXT from doing their own collateral or pegging system or a near-equivalent thereof?  

[PilotofBTC]

My only problem with the article and the comparison is that a house, real estate, has intrinsic value.

What gives a BitShare intrinsic value that makes it valuable collateral for creating bitUSD from?

What gives bitcoin  intrinsic value ?

Nothing?

lol well for this "nothing" people are paying 500$ a piece.  The  intrinsic value is Block chain technology and what you can do with it.

I didn't say BTC didn't have a "value". Just not an intrinsic value.

If you asked my what intrinsic value the USD has, I would probably say, nothing is well. It only has a value because people accept that value. At least Gold has,

1. Scarcity
2. PoW - it takes real time and production to mine gold
3. Intrinsic value, it can be used for things other than as a Fiat Currency. ie, gold is used in manufacturing, etc.

Fiat has 1.

Crypto Coins have 1 and 2.

Gold, silver, diamonds, etc have 1, 2 and 3.

[merockstar]

The delegates are not the federal reserve of bitUSD.

The federal reserve is.

A bitUSD is going to track the value of a dollar, therefore it depends on how many dollars the fed prints.

It's purpose? USD with all the properties of a currency on the blockchain!

how long will it be useful? that depends on how long you think USD will be useful.

same for other fiat currencies.

after USD has outlived it's usefulness? BitShares and other cryptos will still be there.

until then?

I think it should be obvious. Businesses can now accept and save a cryptocurrency that carries the stability of the dollar they so dearly value, without having to trust a bank. All the good of Bitcoin, none of the risk until the market cap of Bitcoin, BitShares, Peercoin, or whatever is high enough that the price is stable enough to preclude risk without having to use bitFIAT.