[UNMODERATED] CLUSTERCOIN Topic [OPEN DISCUSSION]

[Chris001]

The ICO terms are irrelevant in these accusations.

The fact that it is the same "DEV" as the USE "DEV" is where the root of the imminent scam lies. Nevermind the terms, the fact that this person makes his living out of scamming people out of their BTC and Bittrex having the power to kill one of cryptos deadliest cancers is what we should be looking at, do not deviate with "ICO terms arguments".

You want irrefutable proof to act? there is none and there will never be one for the Carsens, the ASIACOINS, the list goes on and on, unless they themselves say they did it, it is impossible, this is the internet, the evidence is right there, served to you on a silver plattter WORK WITH WHAT YOU GOT! BITTREX: DO THE RIGHT THING!

Here is a US CFPB advisory on crypto companies: http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201408_cfpb_consumer-advisory_virtual-currencies.pdf

Here is where you can file complaints against crypto companies that commit or assist in scams against the public: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

Bittrex "doing the right thing" is following their terms of the contract.

Sending the info on this situation to www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint would be a good thing, they can explain to you that they are FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!

Hey, I lost over a grand on this deal, but you are aiming your anger at the wrong party, out of emotion, but you are wrong.

Bittrex would BE BREAKING THE LAW if they break the terms of the contract.

I know you are angry, but try to think rational here.

I wish to god you were correct, but you are not.

Please use this energy from you anger to try to find some proof that the asshole clustercoin dev broke the contract.

That would be useful and save us all a lot of money. But asking Bittrex to break the law is not going to get us anywhere.

Sorry you lost so much money, as did I, but please direct you energy in the correct way!! This is the only thing that will help the situation!!

[hashtag101]

The ICO terms are irrelevant in these accusations.

The fact that it is the same "DEV" as the USE "DEV" is where the root of the imminent scam lies. Nevermind the terms, the fact that this person makes his living out of scamming people out of their BTC and Bittrex having the power to kill one of cryptos deadliest cancers is what we should be looking at, do not deviate with "ICO terms arguments".

You want irrefutable proof to act? there is none and there will never be one for the Carsens, the ASIACOINS, the list goes on and on, unless they themselves say they did it, it is impossible, this is the internet, the evidence is right there, served to you on a silver plattter WORK WITH WHAT YOU GOT! BITTREX: DO THE RIGHT THING!

Here is a US CFPB advisory on crypto companies: http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201408_cfpb_consumer-advisory_virtual-currencies.pdf

Here is where you can file complaints against crypto companies that commit or assist in scams against the public: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

Bittrex "doing the right thing" is following their terms of the contract.

Sending the info on this situation to www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint would be a good thing, they can explain to you that they are FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!

Hey, I lost over a grand on this deal, but you are aiming your anger at the wrong party, out of emotion, but you are wrong.

Bittrex would BE BREAKING THE LAW if they break the terms of the contract.

I know you are angry, but try to think rational here.

I wish to god you were correct, but you are not.

Please use this energy from you anger to try to find some proof that the asshole clustercoin dev broke the contract.

That would be useful and save us all a lot of money. But asking Bittrex to break the law is not going to get us anywhere.

Sorry you lost so much money, as did I, but please direct you energy in the correct way!! This is the only thing that will help the situation!!

Guys, get ahold of yourselfs

IF you had any proof at all this would all be over and Bittrex wouldn't have to worry about the contract.

You are all blinded by dollarsigns in you eye. Can't see the clustercoin guy covered his tracks and we fell for it, don't be mad a Bittrex for following the law. Be mad at yourselves for not reading the terms before throwing your BTC at something without doing the proper research.

An exchange is not about to commit a felony to make up for your inability to read a contract.

[hashtag101]

The ICO terms are irrelevant in these accusations.

The fact that it is the same "DEV" as the USE "DEV" is where the root of the imminent scam lies. Nevermind the terms, the fact that this person makes his living out of scamming people out of their BTC and Bittrex having the power to kill one of cryptos deadliest cancers is what we should be looking at, do not deviate with "ICO terms arguments".

You want irrefutable proof to act? there is none and there will never be one for the Carsens, the ASIACOINS, the list goes on and on, unless they themselves say they did it, it is impossible, this is the internet, the evidence is right there, served to you on a silver plattter WORK WITH WHAT YOU GOT! BITTREX: DO THE RIGHT THING!

Here is a US CFPB advisory on crypto companies: http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201408_cfpb_consumer-advisory_virtual-currencies.pdf

Here is where you can file complaints against crypto companies that commit or assist in scams against the public: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

Bittrex "doing the right thing" is following their terms of the contract.

Sending the info on this situation to www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint would be a good thing, they can explain to you that they are FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!

Hey, I lost over a grand on this deal, but you are aiming your anger at the wrong party, out of emotion, but you are wrong.

Bittrex would BE BREAKING THE LAW if they break the terms of the contract.

I know you are angry, but try to think rational here.

I wish to god you were correct, but you are not.

Please use this energy from you anger to try to find some proof that the asshole clustercoin dev broke the contract.

That would be useful and save us all a lot of money. But asking Bittrex to break the law is not going to get us anywhere.

Sorry you lost so much money, as did I, but please direct you energy in the correct way!! This is the only thing that will help the situation!!

Guys, get ahold of yourselfs

IF you had any proof at all this would all be over and Bittrex wouldn't have to worry about the contract.

You are all blinded by dollarsigns in you eye. Can't see the clustercoin guy covered his tracks and we fell for it, don't be mad a Bittrex for following the law. Be mad at yourselves for not reading the terms before throwing your BTC at something without doing the proper research.

An exchange is not about to commit a felony to make up for your inability to read a contract.

These guys just want their money back is all. It's understandable, but if Bittrex could do something they would. The dev is going to win this one. Hes going to get his BTC and we all just have to be more careful from now on is all. Lesson learned.

[Bitcycle]

Frankly, ICOs are just too risky for anyone but the devs.  They put exchanges at legal risk, and they're financial black holes for most investors. The community as a whole would be better off without them.  The benefits are just too limited.

[wadili89]

there is no logical explanation to sell your ipo coin lower price. no sense, no logic.

i think that bittrex is behind of ipo scene. i bought icebergcoin and clustercoin. so i know very well these periods. and i am sure that something in market is not normal, such as sell low after ipo.

so typical ipo process is like that:
1) launch or host an ipo coin
2) let people buy them
3) if not enough people buy them, bittrex will buy. bittrex has nothing to lose as  i ll explain in step 4.
4) when ipo period ends, bittrex dumps their coins to people that willing to buy lower. so bittrex makes 2 times profit. 1 from % fees, 2 from early coin buys with ghost btcs to dump coins for real btc
5) bittrex profits, dev profits, investors lose.
6) bittrex host an another ico.

[kingscrown]

If Bittrex allow this to go through it will be the last straw for me. Will pull all funds out for good.

Luckily I did not buy, I was just checking this coin for considering a pool to be set up and stumbled over SO many things that I needed to open this topic...

And I STILL believe that Bittrex is not "bad" - They are just "being raped and used" as a tool - but they will have to do "something" in the future to prevent such a fiasco like with Usecoin...

sadly bittrex deleted SIS that had no ipo/premine yet scams still go on there ;x
i still believe bittrex guys are decent but some of this moves i dont understand

[owlcatz]

If Bittrex allow this to go through it will be the last straw for me. Will pull all funds out for good.

Luckily I did not buy, I was just checking this coin for considering a pool to be set up and stumbled over SO many things that I needed to open this topic...

And I STILL believe that Bittrex is not "bad" - They are just "being raped and used" as a tool - but they will have to do "something" in the future to prevent such a fiasco like with Usecoin...

sadly bittrex deleted SIS that had no ipo/premine yet scams still go on there ;x
i still believe bittrex guys are decent but some of this moves i dont understand

its a scam. the dev keeps deleing all evidence that's all. bittrex should figure it out if not, i'm done there!!

[fox19891989]

check here, 3 accounts has same IP https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=754271.msg8516436#msg8516436

IT IS A FUCKING SCAM

[kingscrown]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

[Gladimor]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

Be careful with your words 
There is no "dev" for HYPER- it is a huge team of developers. And I am one of them. So don't start FUD please. And also, all of the premines are intact and held in escrow indefinitely.

[kingscrown]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

Be careful with your words 
There is no "dev" for HYPER- it is a huge team of developers. And I am one of them. So don't start FUD please. And also, all of the premines are intact and held in escrow indefinitely.

dev did login to account and dev did not reply/pay.
where is FUD here?

[tobeaj2mer01]

Bittrex hold the coins until the first beta release, it's the best solution!!! Time will tell if Cluster is a scam or there are too many FUDDERS in the thread

[Gladimor]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

Be careful with your words 
There is no "dev" for HYPER- it is a huge team of developers. And I am one of them. So don't start FUD please. And also, all of the premines are intact and held in escrow indefinitely.

dev did login to account and dev did not reply/pay.
where is FUD here?

Our project manager responsible for issuing common bounties is currently away. You not receiving a 10 HYPER bounty for a sig campaign/tweet job does not justify the fact that HYPER is a scam.

[kingscrown]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

Be careful with your words 
There is no "dev" for HYPER- it is a huge team of developers. And I am one of them. So don't start FUD please. And also, all of the premines are intact and held in escrow indefinitely.

dev did login to account and dev did not reply/pay.
where is FUD here?

Our project manager responsible for issuing common bounties is currently away. You not receiving a 10 HYPER bounty for a sig campaign/tweet job does not justify the fact that HYPER is a scam.

my bounty is 0,1BTC worth of HYPER + i see the account logging in - how many people have access there then? explain me why somebody logs in and doesnt reply.

[Gladimor]

HYPER als oseems ot be scam in the end - dev droped whole premine. added it as 3rd coin to not use in last post on http://fuk.io

Be careful with your words 
There is no "dev" for HYPER- it is a huge team of developers. And I am one of them. So don't start FUD please. And also, all of the premines are intact and held in escrow indefinitely.

dev did login to account and dev did not reply/pay.
where is FUD here?

Our project manager responsible for issuing common bounties is currently away. You not receiving a 10 HYPER bounty for a sig campaign/tweet job does not justify the fact that HYPER is a scam.

my bounty is 0,1BTC worth of HYPER + i see the account logging in - how many people have access there then? explain me why somebody logs in and doesnt reply.

He has been extremely busy lately. I would kindly ask you to stop, and wait for a reply from HYPERfuture.

[crimealone]

shit just got real

https://twitter.com/scammerdie/status/503736924758999040

scammer confirmed

Someone asked him to prove himself on twitter. Dev just kept deleting his posts.

[fox19891989]

If the dev is real, worst case is he doesn't get funded and a shaky idea that likely wouldn't work anyway doesn't get developed immediately.  If the idea has actual merit, it will get developed anyway, eventually.

If the dev is a scammer, worst case is a scammer gets 350 btc.

The downside to giving him the money is much, much worse than the downside to not giving him the money.

Very simple decision.  Do not give him the money.

yes, if you and me are bittrex admins, we will sure refund.

[discodancer]

Chris/OCminer, you two are always thoughtful in your responses so I welcome a discussion with you on why you think its a scam. You guys know where you can find me. I will not engage in this discussion on this forum after this post.  

Here's what I do know as a fact, please find me and discuss if you have more facts.

* Our ICO terms stated in the original ANN said the dev must deliver a working wallet, blockchain and blockchain explorer.  This is more than requested by some other ICO terms.
* the ICO is based on the premise that the funds were to be used for future developments of the project. Not what was available today.  This was clearly stated in the ANN.
* the whitepaper was laid out along with the source code of the available wallet for everyone to decide before investing in the ICO.

None of these things have changed since people decided to invest based on their research.  In fact, the dev has already agreed add additional requirements by doing PoD (not going to get into the validity of it, but it is another way to raise the bar).  Bittrex makes no guarantees beyond ensuring that the coins you have purchased arrive in your wallet.

The other anecdotal things I've seen is:

* 3 accounts created in a one month period (how many accounts were created during the bitcoin hype period?)
* said accounts were part of giveaway threads (how many accounts were part of the giveaways?)
* dev isn't responsive enough (do you know how much time WE have spent engaged with the community with people that insist on FUD).

This is the data I have.  In the world where FUD allows for market manipulation, we have to operate on facts.  And, as I have stated many times, everyone has agreed to hold funds until PoD is completed.

thanks,
Richie

Here's the problem:
"* Our ICO terms stated in the original ANN said the dev must deliver a working wallet, blockchain and blockchain explorer.  This is more than requested by some other ICO terms." ---> And why is that? The obvious issue is if you set a bar so low that anyone without a wallet/blockchain/blockchain explorer can open an ICO on your site, there is obviously something wrong with your site. How much time do you think will pass before you get branded as the cryptostocks of alt ICOs?

I had a discussion with Richie over this post via PM. Here's what he has to say:

1) The bar is low yes, but that is what it is.  If you think it is too low, then do not be a part of the ICO.  The alternative is people do ICOs on BCT and things like $STACK happen where users have no chance at all.  We DO NOT want to police things.  We are an escrow service.  I don't know how to say that to make it any clearer.

My interpretation from this is bittrex is going to allow anyone with a whitepaper and idea (but zero coding skills) to sell their ICOs while using the bittrex logo (read allow exploiting the brand name). All in the name of getting volume to the exchange.

[jdh015232]

imagine if bittrex releases the funds and the dev dissapears, they would be ruined, aswell as they would get sued. i hope they are thinking of all this aswell.
their is quite a good bit of evidence that this could be a big scam, and if bittrex doesnt responsibly listen to the community and ends up releasing the funds and it turns out to be a scam, they are just as in on the scam as the scammers, them being enablers of the scam and will have much legal trouble because it could have been prevented

[standards]

Dev is obviously not a coder. All his posts are crap from the very beginning to the very end.