BitsharesX is taking Litecoin and Bitcoin down

[ruletheworld]

Ah-ha...Preston Byrne and his BTSX assessment:
http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

And the BTSX community response:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7065.0

yea but the quote isnt even from Byrne and I linked to the thread deemed as the "response".

In non complex terms, when the price crashes, it will bring the whole ecosystem down with it.

I think there are already "fixes" in place, like not being allowed to short below the median price feed published by the delegates.

[krach]

I think there are already "fixes" in place, like not being allowed to short below the median price feed published by the delegates.

Still does not remove the base risk.

Im more interested in this new project bitsharesME that is not so elitist and that defines "legit" with having a lot of money.

[ruletheworld]

I think there are already "fixes" in place, like not being allowed to short below the median price feed published by the delegates.

Still does not remove the base risk.

Im more interested in this new project bitsharesME that is not so elitist and that defines "legit" with having a lot of money.

Yeah, the ME version is more democratic in that it's easier to create user-defined assets but I guess it runs the risk of low liquidity in certain markets and therefore probably subject to manipulation. If you create a bitWine, what price is it supposed to track?

[sumantso]

I think there are already "fixes" in place, like not being allowed to short below the median price feed published by the delegates.

Still does not remove the base risk.

Im more interested in this new project bitsharesME that is not so elitist and that defines "legit" with having a lot of money.

Yeah, the ME version is more democratic in that it's easier to create user-defined assets but I guess it runs the risk of low liquidity in certain markets and therefore probably subject to manipulation. If you create a bitWine, what price is it supposed to track?

I think Bitshares Me will be like NXT. At least that whats I figured out.

Right now NXT and BTSX are not really competitors, both serve different purposes.

[Bansheroom]

Create assets simply from the client. Fees for creating a new asset (while i write this post): 332,717.4144 BTSX
(from bitsharestalk board: The cost to register an asset is proportional to 2 weeks of network transaction fees.  Very expensive and intentionally so.  Because of the way it is calculated, you can expect it to double when a new asset is registered and then slowly fall over 2 weeks.)

The funds are distributed to the delgates as fees (deatils here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5859.0)

Why peg the USD? Why not? Because we can? No obsession, there are also € avail, and many other currencies in the future.

Really ?
Did I read that right? 332,000 BTSX to create an asset ?
Which is then given to the delegates ?
How many delegates are there ?


I'm just gobsmacked by the asset fee....not exactly making it accessible, eh?

The asset fee is high because we only want legit (read:quality or large businesses) assets being created on BitsharesX. BitsharesME will come out later this year that will have a much lower asset fee for smaller mom and pop assets.

I think he is way off on the fee amount to create an asset on BTSX anyways, but I don't know the number off the top of my head.

Im not way off, its simply the fee that is shown by the client.

[delulo]

I think there are already "fixes" in place, like not being allowed to short below the median price feed published by the delegates.

Still does not remove the base risk.

Im more interested in this new project bitsharesME that is not so elitist and that defines "legit" with having a lot of money.

Yeah, the ME version is more democratic in that it's easier to create user-defined assets but I guess it runs the risk of low liquidity in certain markets and therefore probably subject to manipulation. If you create a bitWine, what price is it supposed to track?

Whether BitWine tracks anything depends on whether market participants form a consensus around a focal point (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_(game_theory) ). It is helpful and to some degree necessary for the Asset to be specific for a focal point to form. BitOneBarrelCrudeOil sould be specific enough. 

[delulo]

why because it is the truth?

The reality is just that. What innovative features does Litecoin have that merit the number two spots?

"oh Litecoin is Silver to Bitcoin's gold"

All it has is a marketing gimmick in its favor. Out of the next 8 alt coins after Litecoin
on coinmarketcap virtually all of them have better features, technology, and active development than Litecoin.

Litecoin serves as a feasible additional layer of obfuscation with a market volume that can support such a role. It's a perfect compliment to Bitcoin.

 LTC will always have value being a compliment to BTC.  A third compliment could be BitcoinDark.

I always found that funny. What are the criteria you attribute to a "compliment". Why should NXT, BitShares or any shitcoin not be a compliment? Only market cap? If only market cap mattered Bitcoin would have to continue to rise constantly against all alternatives (didn't) and any alternative to it would have zero value.

[DooMAD]

Thing is, I think a lot of new coins are going to add asset exchange as a feature.  So it's not like NXT and BTSX will have that exclusive selling point for long.  It's rumoured some coins are also working on an integrated dividend payment system, so you don't have to manually pay out dividends like in NXT.  It's still all to play for.

[delulo]

Thing is, I think a lot of new coins are going to add asset exchange as a feature.  So it's not like NXT and BTSX will have that exclusive selling point for long.  It's rumoured some coins are also working on an integrated dividend payment system, so you don't have to manually pay out dividends like in NXT.  It's still all to play for.

Right, since it is a continuous innovation battle. the best team wins. My assessment about the quality of teams in order: BitShares, Counterparty, NXT, Bitcoin (core devs / foundation). Looks weired with Bitcoin at the end but we will see in a few years how things played out. There are only 3 payed Bitcoin core devs. It is not surprising that this doesnt generate a lot of innovation.
And BitAssets are different from Assets on Exchanges like NXT or Counterparty. The latter have a centralized counterparty, the first doesn't.

[devphp]

Thing is, I think a lot of new coins are going to add asset exchange as a feature.  So it's not like NXT and BTSX will have that exclusive selling point for long.  It's rumoured some coins are also working on an integrated dividend payment system, so you don't have to manually pay out dividends like in NXT.  It's still all to play for.

There is a third-party script for NXT in existence since May that pays dividends automatically, and some companies on NXT AE have used it successfully many times.

And the developers are adding automatic dividends into release 1.4 of the client as part of NXT AE v2 with many other improvements & addons, which is scheduled for October-November.

[kingscrown]

im buying out all LTCs i can pre 5USD price.

[SomethingElse]

Ah-ha...Preston Byrne and his BTSX assessment:
http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

And the BTSX community response:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7065.0


I've spent some time talking to PB, and I'd value his opinion on crypto (and legal) matters.
Dude has a big brain, and is taken seriously by most people.

My personal take on BTSX is that it is a genuine effort to create a new crypto, but I think that it's needlessly complex and that could lead to problems.

Great post Dave.  I have watched Bitshares for a long time and watched them waiver back and forth about how they were going to accomplish their goals.  

Now it is up and running and people are seriously pumping so I was brought here.  

I'll summarize the Preston link like this, "Bitshares is a ridicolous scheme because of these facts.  Fact A, Fact B, Fact C, Fact D...... Fact Z."  Lots of great solid points how as a financial system it just doesn't make sense.

The BTSX community response is to ridicule him, joke about him, and blow him off but not ever really address his concerns.  Along comes the Let's Talk Bitcoin host Adam Levine and asks the community to try to explain how Preston is wrong.  Community then trolls Adam and Preston together with no dev explaining how Preston is wrong.  At one point many pages later after repeated poking by Adam one regular Joe gives it a fair try, but you get the feeling if Preston and Joe were in a debate, ole Joe would leave crying.  

Wasn't interested in investing in Bitshares before, not now either.

[delulo]

Ah-ha...Preston Byrne and his BTSX assessment:
http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

And the BTSX community response:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7065.0


I've spent some time talking to PB, and I'd value his opinion on crypto (and legal) matters.
Dude has a big brain, and is taken seriously by most people.

My personal take on BTSX is that it is a genuine effort to create a new crypto, but I think that it's needlessly complex and that could lead to problems.

Great post Dave.  I have watched Bitshares for a long time and watched them waiver back and forth about how they were going to accomplish their goals.  

Now it is up and running and people are seriously pumping so I was brought here.  

I'll summarize the Preston link like this, "Bitshares is a ridicolous scheme because of these facts.  Fact A, Fact B, Fact C, Fact D...... Fact Z."  Lots of great solid points how as a financial system it just doesn't make sense.

The BTSX community response is to ridicule him, joke about him, and blow him off but not ever really address his concerns.  Along comes the Let's Talk Bitcoin host Adam Levine and asks the community to try to explain how Preston is wrong.  Community then trolls Adam and Preston together with no dev explaining how Preston is wrong.  At one point many pages later after repeated taunting by Adam one regular Joe gives it a fair try, but you get the feeling if Preston and Joe were in a debate, ole Joe would leave crying.  

Wasn't interested in investing in Bitshares before, not now either.

Preston's articles can not really be taken seriously. In his first article he just bashed it without any arguments really (that was not a serious discussion that can be taken seriously). The second article was more balanced. He basically agreed that in principle it can work except for one issue he had with it (read yourself): http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/24/what-goes-up/ In the discussion section at the bottom he and Daniel (Larimer from BitShares) have a discussion that ends without a major disagreement.

In his third article again he is totally unbalanced and bashed it only for bashing it. His point is that the market peg was off at the fifth day. Only saying that is completely imbalanced and not a neutral analysis. BitAssets where only running a few days. The market first had to form. Since then the price of BitUSD got more and more stable and more and more close to the USD, see http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/assets/asset?id=USD (price history).

Given the biased nature of Preton's posts (it obviously is not a weighted and in detail discussion) posting those articles serves something else but analyzing how and if the BitUSD market peg works. Blog posts that are very controversial increase his public exposure which he profits from as a lawyer that offers services for the crypto space. I personally found the articles funny because they satirized the system but there was not one sentence that said why it works or why it does not (except for article two).

[krach]

I'll summarize the Preston link like this, "Bitshares is a ridicolous scheme because of these facts.  Fact A, Fact B, Fact C, Fact D...... Fact Z."  Lots of great solid points how as a financial system it just doesn't make sense.

The BTSX community response is to ridicule him, joke about him, and blow him off but not ever really address his concerns.  Along comes the Let's Talk Bitcoin host Adam Levine and asks the community to try to explain how Preston is wrong.  Community then trolls Adam and Preston together with no dev explaining how Preston is wrong.  At one point many pages later after repeated poking by Adam one regular Joe gives it a fair try, but you get the feeling if Preston and Joe were in a debate, ole Joe would leave crying.  

Wasn't interested in investing in Bitshares before, not now either.

I agree.

Preston's articles can not really be taken seriously.

In fact any article not fully embracing bitshares and dpos can not be taken seriously by the bitshare devotee and delagates.

In his first article he just bashed it without any arguments really (that was not a serious discussion that can be taken seriously). The second article was more balanced. He basically agreed that in principle it can work except for one issue he had with it (read yourself): http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/24/what-goes-up/ In the discussion section at the bottom he and Daniel (Larimer from BitShares) have a discussion that ends without a major disagreement.

There are plenty of points in the first article.
The second article which you link two clears these things up: "1) On my motivations 2) The extraordinary claims 3) Prove it"

In his third article again he is totally unbalanced and bashed it only for bashing it. His point is that the market peg was off at the fifth day. Only saying that is completely imbalanced and not a neutral analysis. BitAssets where only running a few days. The market first had to form. Since then the price of BitUSD got more and more stable and more and more close to the USD, see http://www.bitsharesblocks.com/assets/asset?id=USD (price history).

So it wasnt true or it is unfair to even bring it up. Sorry if you make extraordinary claims expect extraordinary scrutiny. Basicly anyone that does not say bitshares is the best thing since X is "biased" , great argument.

Given the biased nature of Preton's posts (it obviously is not a weighted and in detail discussion) posting those articles serves something else but analyzing how and if the BitUSD market peg works. Blog posts that are very controversial increase his public exposure which he profits from as a lawyer that offers services for the crypto space. I personally found the articles funny because they satirized the system but there was not one sentence that said why it works or why it does not (except for article two).

[/quote]
from the blog:

No asset rises in price forever, including BTSX. To think otherwise is folly. The relevance of the issue is that BitSharesX does not benefit from protections available to users of deposit-taking banks or other financial institutions, such as guaranteed deposits or claims in insolvency. If BTSX collapses, unless the laws of economics have somehow been suspended, depositor value may evaporate without any recourse being available.

In the interests of fair play, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the market – including current holders of BTSX – should ask BTSX’s promoters to:

    demonstrate irrefutably why a falling BTSX price as described above will not result in losses as described above; or
    accept that this point is correct.

Another reason why it doesnt make sense or work from the fist blog post:

That’s actually a 200% down payment. But who’s counting?

The scenario described is sort of like buying a mortgage that’s secured on itself instead of a house. Except, when you buy this mortgage (the third mortgage) from the originator, you need to deposit two more mortgages on the same home with the originator that also secure themselves as collateral, which you bought and paid for already at par in dollars. After buying the third mortgage, which is actually lent to you, you have to pay the bank for the privilege of holding and trading it.

Put differently: these transactions make no commercial sense.

And more

Abundance of weird. Absence of pro.

I guess you were reading the article form a nobiased neutral stand point, I guess we can take your posts seriously since you bashed the blog for just bashing without reading it.

More typical tribalistic cryptoX speak, but I thought bitsharesX was so different?


BTW

funding from Chinese venture capital fund BitFund.PE (that operates as a Private Equity Fund

How does BitFund.PE make money on the bitsharesX project? Why isnt this contract somewhere in the bitsharesX blockchain for everyone to see? Or was the funding a donation?

[Denni]

I'll summarize the Preston link like this, "Bitshares is a ridicolous scheme because of these facts.  Fact A, Fact B, Fact C, Fact D...... Fact Z."  Lots of great solid points how as a financial system it just doesn't make sense.

The BTSX community response is to ridicule him, joke about him, and blow him off but not ever really address his concerns.  Along comes the Let's Talk Bitcoin host Adam Levine and asks the community to try to explain how Preston is wrong.  Community then trolls Adam and Preston together with no dev explaining how Preston is wrong.  At one point many pages later after repeated poking by Adam one regular Joe gives it a fair try, but you get the feeling if Preston and Joe were in a debate, ole Joe would leave crying.  

Wasn't interested in investing in Bitshares before, not now either.

+1 . He've just told his own view and that doesn't mean that this is true, he might be wrong as well as anyone.

Thing is, I think a lot of new coins are going to add asset exchange as a feature.  So it's not like NXT and BTSX will have that exclusive selling point for long.  It's rumoured some coins are also working on an integrated dividend payment system, so you don't have to manually pay out dividends like in NXT.  It's still all to play for.

well, IMO, it could happen that if integrated dividend payment system would succeed than other devs will implement it in their coins

[X7]

Meanwhile in related news - Okras are taking down Philly Cheese steaks.

[damiano]

im buying out all LTCs i can pre 5USD price.

Smart move

I am trying to as well. 

[valaub04]

re: very first post in this thread.

Without arguing the merits of any of the currencies, that seems like a bad Amway / insurance pitch. I'm new to this forum but guessing that is not a rare occurrence?

[BestofSR]

How can I mak emoney with Bitshare technology?

What would be advice of someone who has deeper understanding of system and tech to noob like me?

What should I buy and why is it best to invest in?


Thank you. (dont worry I will not blindly invest, I will study it more, just need some direction, because info is kinda overwhelming)

[CoinHoarder]

How can I mak emoney with Bitshare technology?

What would be advice of someone who has deeper understanding of system and tech to noob like me?

What should I buy and why is it best to invest in?


Thank you. (dont worry I will not blindly invest, I will study it more, just need some direction, because info is kinda overwhelming)

This is a good place to start: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7103.0