Bitcoin Forum
December 09, 2016, 11:47:19 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Moving forward, note your preference?
Stay private (i.e., do NOT re-list)
List on Bitfunder
List on BTC-TC
Just show me the results...

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [BTC-TC] YABMC  (Read 42533 times)
JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 02:37:47 PM
 #341

How do you trade/sell your shares if it remains private?
Anyway with Cognitive it went all well on btct.co

To refresh your memory...

While we announced wanting to not re-list YABMC (the reasons/concerns are probably understood), I am now thinking differently.  Not that it is a way to raise more capital - but it would allow bondholders a market to sell shares (if they so desired).  If it remained private the ability to sell shares is gone and I am trying to make this BAD situation just a little bit better.  My preference is Bitfunder but I am open to your suggestions.

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481284039
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481284039

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481284039
Reply with quote  #2

1481284039
Report to moderator
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
 #342

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

Yes, it stopped without an answer.
Do you mean that YABMC is dead? i.e. we will never be able to sell our shares?
Then you should buy them back /refund us. I think I already said this here with no answer from you. Time you give us one.

JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 05:25:14 PM
 #343

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

Yes, it stopped without an answer.
Do you mean that YABMC is dead? i.e. we will never be able to sell our shares?
Then you should buy them back /refund us. I think I already said this here with no answer from you. Time you give us one.

This was discussed before...

@conspirosphere.tk

Honesty is what was posted above.

 1.  A buyback at ~ .07 BTC/share will not happen
 2.  Listing on a new exchange increases the potential of this (exchange closing) happening all over again - that is not acceptable!
 3.  YABMC grew from 5 to just shy of 55 Ghs with the addition of hashking and Patrick Harnett.  With recent events (Trendon Shavers default) that growth has complicated matters.


GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 06:20:48 PM
 #344

@conspirosphere.tk

Honesty is what was posted above.

 1.  A buyback at ~ .07 BTC/share will not happen
 2.  Listing on a new exchange increases the potential of this (exchange closing) happening all over again - that is not acceptable!
 3.  YABMC grew from 5 to just shy of 55 Ghs with the addition of hashking and Patrick Harnett.  With recent events (Trendon Shavers default) that growth has complicated matters.

If you don't relist, then you have to refund. Refund means paying back what your investors paid for your shares, deducting the dividends already paid. That maybe much more than 0.07 per share (I think I bought most of mine above 0.2 each).
At least one exchange (btct.co I think) has a backup plan based on emailing the asset issuer about all of his investors' properties every 12 hours. So it should be safe.
The fact that your associates got scammed by pirate and lost your investors' coins is not an excuse (just an admission of guilt).
If you don't relist nor refund, then it's time that we continue our discussion on the scam accusations thread.

JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 06:37:36 PM
 #345

How can anyone get accurate data for the purchase price of each bond for each bondholder?

There is absolutely nothing in the contract about an investor being assured the share price would not decline.  It appears you believe anything less than a refund of your purchase price is a scam if it is not relisted?



GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 07:02:31 PM
 #346

It appears you believe you can buyback your shares at whatever price you like? That's why you are not relisting?

JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 07:18:28 PM
 #347

This is getting into a circular discussion (unfortunately)...  Sad

1.  I asked for feedback on re-listing or staying private - I had three people comment (a response rate of <1%).

2.  Your comments about buying a dead asset seemed to kill further discussion in the thread.  Not an accusation, just an observation  Wink

3.  A forced buyback, as noted in the contract, is done at the discretion of the issuer at a premium as the holder has no say in the matter (hence paying them a premium).  The issuer can also buy shares on the market (as we did to varied extents - HK and PH much more so than I).

4.  An asset holder has no right per the contract to a buyback at THEIR discretion.  If that was in the contract, it would have been at a discount to market pricing as it primarily serves the interests of the holder (the inverse case is the issuer initiated buyback).

As I mentioned above, PUREMINING has NOT relisted (i.e., stayed private) with seemingly good success!

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 07:59:58 PM
 #348

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

mining4fun11
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 110


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 08:13:08 PM
 #349

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

How many bonds do you own?  If its less then 500 then stop crying like a little girl.
camolist
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 08:25:34 PM
 #350

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

How many bonds do you own?  If its less then 500 then stop crying like a little girl.

so you're saying someone needs to lose > 100 btc (~$1300) to try and make right for what you feel is a scam?

JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 06, 2013, 08:29:10 PM
 #351

Guys...

Please take the scam discussion to the thread conspirosphere.tk started.  I want to keep this thread pertinent to YABMC and future plans (be it private or re-listing).

Thank you in advance!

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
burnside
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 882



View Profile WWW
January 06, 2013, 09:51:05 PM
 #352

If you're worried about the safety of the exchange for the shareholders, I'll point out that Bakewell was listed on BTC-TC and successfully transitioned to BitFunder without trouble.  BTC-TC gives you all the data you need to move at any time.  Bakewell will not be able to move back though, BitFunder does not provide such data, at least not without the site webmaster granting it via special request, but it does provide a public list of BTC addresses so you could minimally continue to make payouts if it fails and you managed to download the list recently.

If you're wondering why Bakewell left BTC-TC, his motivation has not been made clear.  BitFunder has a pretty good incentive, (10 BTC payout to qualifying GLBSE assets) and the Bakewell moderator score on BTC-TC was pretty bad.  Maybe a combination of the above.

Cheers.

I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
boonies4u
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826



View Profile
January 06, 2013, 11:15:31 PM
 #353

If you're worried about the safety of the exchange for the shareholders, I'll point out that Bakewell was listed on BTC-TC and successfully transitioned to BitFunder without trouble.  BTC-TC gives you all the data you need to move at any time.  Bakewell will not be able to move back though, BitFunder does not provide such data, at least not without the site webmaster granting it via special request, but it does provide a public list of BTC addresses so you could minimally continue to make payouts if it fails and you managed to download the list recently.

If you're wondering why Bakewell left BTC-TC, his motivation has not been made clear.  BitFunder has a pretty good incentive, (10 BTC payout to qualifying GLBSE assets) and the Bakewell moderator score on BTC-TC was pretty bad.  Maybe a combination of the above.

Cheers.


If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile WWW
January 07, 2013, 09:56:05 AM
 #354

If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.

Then even the asset should be legit and it would end in the same awful mess Giga went. No thanks.
The risk of an exchange shutdown should be managed just with a backup plan.

bziubek
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 31


View Profile
January 07, 2013, 11:45:02 AM
 #355

+1 on relisting
boonies4u
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826



View Profile
January 07, 2013, 12:10:37 PM
 #356

If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.

Then even the asset should be legit and it would end in the same awful mess Giga went. No thanks.
The risk of an exchange shutdown should be managed just with a backup plan.

Hidden service exchange w/ backup plan then?
JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 07, 2013, 03:01:24 PM
 #357

Thanks for the comments - I am still leaning very strongly towards NOT re-listing but certainly paying coupons well into the future.

So how does YABMC become wound down?

At some point the value of the coupons become almost worthless (due to the certain difficulty increase ASICs will bring).  We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).  I believe when the USD value of 1 share's monthly coupons is less than 1 penny ($.01) the shares are effectively worthless and at that point YABMC would close the following week (assuming weekly payments each Friday).

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
MPOE-PR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756



View Profile
January 07, 2013, 05:00:34 PM
 #358

We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).

It'd seem that difficulty over 3,750,000 is 21.85:1 and under 4,500,000 is 51.5:1 for end of March. So maybe not as reasonable to believe as all that.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
JWU42
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484


View Profile
January 07, 2013, 05:13:33 PM
 #359

We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).

It'd seem that difficulty over 3,750,000 is 21.85:1 and under 4,500,000 is 51.5:1 for end of March. So maybe not as reasonable to believe as all that.

Thanks for that - I'll check if they have bets for end of June (i.e., closer to the 6 month timeframe I mentioned).

EDIT - It seems MP is somehow involved in bitbet.us...

PS - 7 total bets - perhaps an insufficiently small sample size.  Wink

GPG PubKey | THREEMA | OTC | HeatWare | 1JWU42QLGFESoQCC4iPzUDTRiC9nx5bi95
GeoRW
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 329


Trust No One


View Profile
January 07, 2013, 06:39:44 PM
 #360

Thanks for the comments - I am still leaning very strongly towards NOT re-listing but certainly paying coupons well into the future.

So how does YABMC become wound down?

At some point the value of the coupons become almost worthless (due to the certain difficulty increase ASICs will bring).  We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).  I believe when the USD value of 1 share's monthly coupons is less than 1 penny ($.01) the shares are effectively worthless and at that point YABMC would close the following week (assuming weekly payments each Friday).

0.01 USD is still 500 USD per month (even more because there were more than 50k shares of YABMC) that you will save (scam) monthly. And there is still possibility that the difficulty may drop afterwards and you will utilize your hardware without paying anything to investors. The only proper way to wind this down is to follow the contract payback clause. If you don't want to follow last trading data from GLBSE than you may relist on another exchange, let people trade the bonds and if it comes to the point that the monthly coupon will be less_than 0.01 USD execute the buyback as per contract. Right now you are trying to scam investors and make everything in your favour.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!