[BTC-TC] YABMC

[JWU42]

How do you trade/sell your shares if it remains private?
Anyway with Cognitive it went all well on btct.co

To refresh your memory...

While we announced wanting to not re-list YABMC (the reasons/concerns are probably understood), I am now thinking differently.  Not that it is a way to raise more capital - but it would allow bondholders a market to sell shares (if they so desired).  If it remained private the ability to sell shares is gone and I am trying to make this BAD situation just a little bit better.  My preference is Bitfunder but I am open to your suggestions.

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

Yes, it stopped without an answer.
Do you mean that YABMC is dead? i.e. we will never be able to sell our shares?
Then you should buy them back /refund us. I think I already said this here with no answer from you. Time you give us one.

[JWU42]

Wonder who would buy bonds of dead/dying asset and why?

At that point discussion of re-listing all but stopped in the thread.

Yes, it stopped without an answer.
Do you mean that YABMC is dead? i.e. we will never be able to sell our shares?
Then you should buy them back /refund us. I think I already said this here with no answer from you. Time you give us one.

This was discussed before...

@conspirosphere.tk

Honesty is what was posted above.

 1.  A buyback at ~ .07 BTC/share will not happen
 2.  Listing on a new exchange increases the potential of this (exchange closing) happening all over again - that is not acceptable!
 3.  YABMC grew from 5 to just shy of 55 Ghs with the addition of hashking and Patrick Harnett.  With recent events (Trendon Shavers default) that growth has complicated matters.

[conspirosphere.tk]

@conspirosphere.tk

Honesty is what was posted above.

 1.  A buyback at ~ .07 BTC/share will not happen
 2.  Listing on a new exchange increases the potential of this (exchange closing) happening all over again - that is not acceptable!
 3.  YABMC grew from 5 to just shy of 55 Ghs with the addition of hashking and Patrick Harnett.  With recent events (Trendon Shavers default) that growth has complicated matters.

If you don't relist, then you have to refund. Refund means paying back what your investors paid for your shares, deducting the dividends already paid. That maybe much more than 0.07 per share (I think I bought most of mine above 0.2 each).
At least one exchange (btct.co I think) has a backup plan based on emailing the asset issuer about all of his investors' properties every 12 hours. So it should be safe.
The fact that your associates got scammed by pirate and lost your investors' coins is not an excuse (just an admission of guilt).
If you don't relist nor refund, then it's time that we continue our discussion on the scam accusations thread.

[JWU42]

How can anyone get accurate data for the purchase price of each bond for each bondholder?

There is absolutely nothing in the contract about an investor being assured the share price would not decline.  It appears you believe anything less than a refund of your purchase price is a scam if it is not relisted?

[conspirosphere.tk]

It appears you believe you can buyback your shares at whatever price you like? That's why you are not relisting?

[JWU42]

This is getting into a circular discussion (unfortunately)...  

1.  I asked for feedback on re-listing or staying private - I had three people comment (a response rate of <1%).

2.  Your comments about buying a dead asset seemed to kill further discussion in the thread.  Not an accusation, just an observation  

3.  A forced buyback, as noted in the contract, is done at the discretion of the issuer at a premium as the holder has no say in the matter (hence paying them a premium).  The issuer can also buy shares on the market (as we did to varied extents - HK and PH much more so than I).

4.  An asset holder has no right per the contract to a buyback at THEIR discretion.  If that was in the contract, it would have been at a discount to market pricing as it primarily serves the interests of the holder (the inverse case is the issuer initiated buyback).

As I mentioned above, PUREMINING has NOT relisted (i.e., stayed private) with seemingly good success!

[conspirosphere.tk]

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

[mining4fun11]

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

How many bonds do you own?  If its less then 500 then stop crying like a little girl.

[camolist]

Everybody are invited to vote here:
[Poll] Should YABMC issuers be tagged as scammers?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135071.msg1438315#msg1438315

How many bonds do you own?  If its less then 500 then stop crying like a little girl.

so you're saying someone needs to lose > 100 btc (~$1300) to try and make right for what you feel is a scam?

[JWU42]

Guys...

Please take the scam discussion to the thread conspirosphere.tk started.  I want to keep this thread pertinent to YABMC and future plans (be it private or re-listing).

Thank you in advance!

[burnside]

If you're worried about the safety of the exchange for the shareholders, I'll point out that Bakewell was listed on BTC-TC and successfully transitioned to BitFunder without trouble.  BTC-TC gives you all the data you need to move at any time.  Bakewell will not be able to move back though, BitFunder does not provide such data, at least not without the site webmaster granting it via special request, but it does provide a public list of BTC addresses so you could minimally continue to make payouts if it fails and you managed to download the list recently.

If you're wondering why Bakewell left BTC-TC, his motivation has not been made clear.  BitFunder has a pretty good incentive, (10 BTC payout to qualifying GLBSE assets) and the Bakewell moderator score on BTC-TC was pretty bad.  Maybe a combination of the above.

Cheers.

[boonies4u]

If you're worried about the safety of the exchange for the shareholders, I'll point out that Bakewell was listed on BTC-TC and successfully transitioned to BitFunder without trouble.  BTC-TC gives you all the data you need to move at any time.  Bakewell will not be able to move back though, BitFunder does not provide such data, at least not without the site webmaster granting it via special request, but it does provide a public list of BTC addresses so you could minimally continue to make payouts if it fails and you managed to download the list recently.

If you're wondering why Bakewell left BTC-TC, his motivation has not been made clear.  BitFunder has a pretty good incentive, (10 BTC payout to qualifying GLBSE assets) and the Bakewell moderator score on BTC-TC was pretty bad.  Maybe a combination of the above.

Cheers.

If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.

[conspirosphere.tk]

If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.

Then even the asset should be legit and it would end in the same awful mess Giga went. No thanks.
The risk of an exchange shutdown should be managed just with a backup plan.

[bziubek]

+1 on relisting

[boonies4u]

If YABMC is going to be relisting on an exchange, I would like it to be on a hidden service or on an stock/bond/asset exchange that is fully licensed to do so. If not, we would not ONLY be putting faith in a 3rd party exchange, but we would also have the fear of the government (US or otherwise) cracking down on the exchange.

Then even the asset should be legit and it would end in the same awful mess Giga went. No thanks.
The risk of an exchange shutdown should be managed just with a backup plan.

Hidden service exchange w/ backup plan then?

[JWU42]

Thanks for the comments - I am still leaning very strongly towards NOT re-listing but certainly paying coupons well into the future.

So how does YABMC become wound down?

At some point the value of the coupons become almost worthless (due to the certain difficulty increase ASICs will bring).  We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).  I believe when the USD value of 1 share's monthly coupons is less than 1 penny ($.01) the shares are effectively worthless and at that point YABMC would close the following week (assuming weekly payments each Friday).

[MPOE-PR]

We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).

It'd seem that difficulty over 3,750,000 is 21.85:1 and under 4,500,000 is 51.5:1 for end of March. So maybe not as reasonable to believe as all that.

[JWU42]

We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).

It'd seem that difficulty over 3,750,000 is 21.85:1 and under 4,500,000 is 51.5:1 for end of March. So maybe not as reasonable to believe as all that.

Thanks for that - I'll check if they have bets for end of June (i.e., closer to the 6 month timeframe I mentioned).

EDIT - It seems MP is somehow involved in bitbet.us...

PS - 7 total bets - perhaps an insufficiently small sample size. 

[GeoRW]

Thanks for the comments - I am still leaning very strongly towards NOT re-listing but certainly paying coupons well into the future.

So how does YABMC become wound down?

At some point the value of the coupons become almost worthless (due to the certain difficulty increase ASICs will bring).  We do not know WHEN this will happen but it is reasonable to believe difficulty can increase 10x in the next six months (and perhaps 100x soon after).  I believe when the USD value of 1 share's monthly coupons is less than 1 penny ($.01) the shares are effectively worthless and at that point YABMC would close the following week (assuming weekly payments each Friday).

0.01 USD is still 500 USD per month (even more because there were more than 50k shares of YABMC) that you will save (scam) monthly. And there is still possibility that the difficulty may drop afterwards and you will utilize your hardware without paying anything to investors. The only proper way to wind this down is to follow the contract payback clause. If you don't want to follow last trading data from GLBSE than you may relist on another exchange, let people trade the bonds and if it comes to the point that the monthly coupon will be less_than 0.01 USD execute the buyback as per contract. Right now you are trying to scam investors and make everything in your favour.