LTCgear.com, the best scrypt/scrypt n/X11 cloud mining service, Not paying!!!

[Totscha]

GOT paid . I'm thinking of buying some shares and increase them ....

Long live 'Ponzi 2.0'

[1715094483]

1715094483

[1715094483]

1715094483

[verloren]

This is what everyone thought as well but apparently it seems the fee is until the end of each year. With that said, there is no point in paying the fee now since you will only get around 5 months left of weekly payout until the end of 2015 and that is if only this "ponzi" able to sustain itself until the end of the year with so many doubt around

And it isn't on a sliding scale that accounts for how many payouts are left in the "year".

[arallmuus]

This is what everyone thought as well but apparently it seems the fee is until the end of each year. With that said, there is no point in paying the fee now since you will only get around 5 months left of weekly payout until the end of 2015 and that is if only this "ponzi" able to sustain itself until the end of the year with so many doubt around

And it isn't on a sliding scale that accounts for how many payouts are left in the "year".

Assuming that it will last until the end of the year then it will be 20 times weekly payout for that account but then again since it is a timebomb then there is no guarantee that you will get 20 times of weekly payout ( you could be screwed by this ). Also probably there is never an ROI if you got a lot of gen2 in your account

GOT paid . I'm thinking of buying some shares and increase them ....

Even if you got paid by Chris that doesnt mean he is legit . Increasing the shares in your possesion would be taking more timebombs with you. Alas those who paid the fee are the one that keep this ponzi up and running and those who get in first always get profit anyway assuming there will be another person that get in "after" you

[Flep182]

GOT paid . I'm thinking of buying some shares and increase them ....

Last time I checked there were no more shares in the shop. They are visible, but you can't order them since they're out of stock!

[jadefalke]

GOT paid . I'm thinking of buying some shares and increase them ....

Last time I checked there were no more shares in the shop. They are visible, but you can't order them since they're out of stock!

a lot of people still selling accounts, so you might be able to grab some shares that way.

[Flep182]

GOT paid . I'm thinking of buying some shares and increase them ....

Last time I checked there were no more shares in the shop. They are visible, but you can't order them since they're out of stock!

a lot of people still selling accounts, so you might be able to grab some shares that way.

Yup, buying accounts is still an option. I though he was going to shop in Chris' his store

[Deki1904]

43k Account with 110gen2 and 1Dualmod 10 available for sale.

[jadefalke]

43k Account with 110gen2 and 1Dualmod 10 available for sale.

How much Fee attached? and what are you asking for it?

[Parker_]

If anybody wants out, I am interested in buying small LTCgear accounts anywhere between 0 and 1500 shares.

Paying more than fair amount

[yslyung]

up for sales. escrow only buyer pays. scammers can stay away.

[Flep182]

If anybody wants out, I am interested in buying small LTCgear accounts anywhere between 0 and 1500 shares.

Paying more than fair amount

What would you be willing to pay per 1k?

Oh and nothing still on the Q&A

[arallmuus]

Oh and nothing still on the Q&A

There is nothing left to expect here even with the ultimatum from TheMage isnt enough to make him answer the question which has been submitted. This seems to be another indicator that he has no intention to straighten this whole mess up. There is no point for him to keep on stalling with all of this since everyone will either wait for the "magical" hardware or leave it as it is ( it is unlikely that people will pay the fee and even if they did it will be for a small account )

[rtigges]

 the "magical" hardware.  LOL!   

There is nothing left to expect here even with the ultimatum from TheMage isnt enough to make him answer the question which has been submitted. This seems to be another indicator that he has no intention to straighten this whole mess up. There is no point for him to keep on stalling with all of this since everyone will either wait for the "magical" hardware or leave it as it is ( it is unlikely that people will pay the fee and even if they did it will be for a small account )

[Flep182]

the "magical" hardware.  LOL!   

There is nothing left to expect here even with the ultimatum from TheMage isnt enough to make him answer the question which has been submitted. This seems to be another indicator that he has no intention to straighten this whole mess up. There is no point for him to keep on stalling with all of this since everyone will either wait for the "magical" hardware or leave it as it is ( it is unlikely that people will pay the fee and even if they did it will be for a small account )

Yeah, the ultimatum, I almost forgot about that. Let me check, it should be on the litecointalkforum by now don't you think?

[tempus]

There is nothing left to expect here even with the ultimatum from TheMage isnt enough to make him answer the question which has been submitted. This seems to be another indicator that he has no intention to straighten this whole mess up. There is no point for him to keep on stalling with all of this since everyone will either wait for the "magical" hardware or leave it as it is ( it is unlikely that people will pay the fee and even if they did it will be for a small account )

I would think the other way around. In my opinion it's not that much the question what his intention is. The question is what does he fear?

Why do I say that: I'm not affected by this but some guys I know are. That's why I watch it since March. And I always asked myself why that much updates and fixed dates and delays, all the broken promises? Why? I believe that he is stuck between two points:

1. If he would be totally silent, no updates and so on, the risk that some of you would take legal (or illegal) actions increases.
2. If he would be open, honestly saying what has happened and what's the situation now, regarding your money it would most likely be the same. The risk that some of you would take legal (or illegal) actions would increase.

That's why he tried to balance it with promises and updates but never did the Q&A. The first time he announced the Q&A I said to somebody I know that it will be a good sign if he does it and a very bad sign if not. That was in May I believe, maybe End of April (?)


What I want to say with that: In my opinion there won't happen anything without pressure. The hardware-conversion was another very bad sign and nobody should believe that he will act reliable. But it's perfect to divide his victims as a community. Some will get hardware, some will get a "soon" and some won't but wait, because... some other got it. He can do this for a very long time.

It's really not on me to say anybody what to do, but if I would be affected I would do anything to form a group, as many people as possible, and take legal actions. I would announce it and than it should happen... It would be a legal threat to him to take him his business.

Some other little points... not facts, but I believe I'm right:

I don't believe that he has a great plan. I believe he plays on time and day by day. He doesn't seem to be very strategic but chaotic. Also he is most likely scared and uncertain. How he communicates is not straight... Example:

The answers for Q&A are not ready yet, most likely part of answers will be sent for publishing during or right after the weekend.

Those phrases like "most likely"..."part of"...."during or" shows uncertainty. He knows that he loses control and his fight is to get the time on his side and not against him. Also he learned, because he set not a fixed date. If you read it now it could mean this weekend and not the past weekend.

And all the speculating what could have happened doesn't help. He "lives" from that. What he fears is really that some guys say "whatever he announces, whatever could have happened, we take legal actions". That would mean losing control out of his perspective. And maybe that would make enough pressure on him that he would do all he can to prevent it... could be that he would openly say what has happened and if there is hope to get money back and show clear intentions and facts, could be that he would try to hide completely. But he would not be able to run his business and it wouldn't be easy to start another one in Crypto.

[Flep182]

Found the post from TheMage. Here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=26857.0

Any information within this post is my speculation on what has happened since December, and is not to be taken as 100% fact.


So this hit me about two weeks ago, and it was when people were discussing taking the shipped asic units as opposed to paying out the maintenance fees. Interestingly enough, it was one little word that triggered a series of events in my head where I had an epiphany, that word was "dusty".


Back in December, there were 3 weeks where some people got paid completely up until no one got paid. Each week less and less people got paid, then the faucet shut off. There were a few emails back and forth between Beekeeper and myself where he explained he was hacked and was continuing to get hacked. If I remember correctly, it started with addresses being changed in the database, then it escalated to fake shares being injected. I personally do not remember if there was ever proof of this, but we all know there were a substantial amount of new accounts trying to dump 1 million shares (or some ridiculous number).

The funds were drying up, but I dont think this is where the issue started. I believe the issue started on the black Friday/Cyber Monday sales. I think it is widely accepted that shares were over sold, and I believe this was purposely done. No, I don't think it was malicious, I believe there was a plan with the extra money. But the hacks and the fake shares, along with potentially poor business planning, dried up funds much earlier than expected (also the time needing to be spent unscrambling the database to ensure the proper people get paid).

We all also suspect that he has been to China quite a number of times. He needs to go somewhere in order to get the asics built, from chips to possible final assembly. I as well as others know that he has shipped hardware in the past and has a number of months of delays with these as well. Building hardware is no easy task, take it from me as a hardware engineer. If you want it done right, sometimes you need to bite the bullet and play by the schedule that is handed to you.


Enter Gen2's


We all know these were rolling out, shortly before payments stopped he was selling shares of these. Shares were being sold and I assume were being paid out (I didnt get any). Generation two....a new asic that needs to be design, tested, and manufactured.

The money that was collected, the oversold shares that were performed, all of it was used to pre-order asics. From Butterfly labs to FT to Alpha to Fib, we have all seen this time and time again, and we all know that anytime anything is pre-ordered means that there is everything from design to final manufacturing to perform. This doesnt happen overnight, and can take a long time to have asics in hand. I believe something happened that was not according to Beekeeper's business plan (cost and schedule) that caused more issues.

Back to the money situation, how to alleviate the situation so there is less financial pressure and resetting back from an oversell of shares to a net gain as a business. For those wanting to continue to mine an additional tax was levied in the form of "maintenance". And for those that just want out and refuse to pay, the offer of non Gen2's can be shipped to them. Two birds with one stone, can't have all those asics in one place so offer the older ones to customers in lieu of payments. Of course, when people will get them they are going to be a little "dusty" from being used.


So thats it, I believe in theory that all of these non payments are because he has used everyones money in order to perform pre-orders on Gen2's. Mix in all the rest of the stuff mentioned above (hacks, production, schedule, costs) and its caused a long time of non payments.


No I don't believe he is a scammer, but then again, not the entire truth was told.

Next thing will be to go through the next 10 pages of the thread and look for more stuff

[arallmuus]

-snip-

-snip-
I believe that he is stuck between two points:

1. If he would be totally silent, no updates and so on, the risk that some of you would take legal (or illegal) actions increases.
2. If he would be open, honestly saying what has happened and what's the situation now, regarding your money it would most likely be the same. The risk that some of you would take legal (or illegal) actions would increase.

Im afraid this wont be the case. Back then he was quite "popular" and lot of his fanboy will break up an arm or leg just to defend him when he was late with payment.
If he stated the "real" reason of all this delay few months ago , some people will just "forgive" him or whatever ( some people just dont have the right mind) but that thing has long gone anyway ( even I suspected this will still be the case though )

That was in May I believe, maybe End of April (?)

Middle of May IIRC ( I could be wrong on this)

What I want to say with that: In my opinion there won't happen anything without pressure.

A legal pressure is currently under arrangement ( references below)

Some will get hardware, some will get a "soon" and some won't but wait, because... some other got it. He can do this for a very long time.

Part of my speculations as well because by doing this he can keep this stalling tactics to keep on working

-snip-

For me this is much of about entertainment for now because I had got off from this "waiting" stuff by selling on loss ( Im happy with it rather than keep on waiting for uncertainty ). Some people just cant get the fact that this is a "scam" and legal issue needs to be taken . Probably because of his nice attitude before this "cloudmining" fell apart.

Also to pursue things legal, a Real identity is needed (bolded references below) and some people arent ready to go that far thus some tend to wait instead of taking legal action. Basically some thought that they are not losing anything either to keep on waiting more since they have waited for months ( yes 7+ months already ). Most are on the verge of "let it go" as what I've seen, even you can read few previous post that actually wont even care whatever happen even if they dont actually get the "magical hardware" and not even fuss when then Q&A is keep on being delayed

FYI from gethashing thread... https://forum.gethashing.com/t/not-paying-ltcgear-discussions/2031/3772

I'm going to post this here. https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=26244.0

I'm not going to have a discussion about it here though. A legal action is going to be started and anyone that is interested in participating in the action is required to provide their RL information.

If you do not plan to provide RL information (name, address, phone, email) do not fill out the form because it will not be sent to the lawyer.

If you do not plan to provide financial information for the case providing a paper trail of bank funded fiat to crypto currency exchange, fiat equivalent value of crypto in exchange for services rendered and a blockchain trail to purchased products at LTCGear you may not be able to participate in the action.

This form is for filing to participate in the action. It required RL information, and at this time only products that you own in your combined LTCGear accounts. The form can be updated in the future if you make and purchases or sales. This form will be up for approximately 2 weeks.

Request to participate in class action against LTCGear

*Note this this legal action does not necessarily mean that a lawsuit is taking place. The strategy for proceeding will be determined by legal counsel once we gather the initial participants.

Found the post from TheMage. Here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=26857.0

Even TheMage's ultimatum wasnt enough to make him "act" it seems

[Borisz]

Found the post from TheMage. Here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=26857.0

Thanks for the link!

Read it, but there is nothing really that hasn't been discussed previously I believe. (The details of how he got to the point of not paying can be a range of possibilities. If you are the financial officer of a company and you personally don't realize that the company will go bankrupt or face financial difficulties with the current business plan and cash flow, then you can be held responsible. Whoever is/are running things should have seen this coming. All this assuming that they planned on doing legitimate business.)

[Flep182]

Found the post from TheMage. Here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=26857.0

Thanks for the link!

Read it, but there is nothing really that hasn't been discussed previously I believe. (The details of how he got to the point of not paying can be a range of possibilities. If you are the financial officer of a company and you personally don't realize that the company will go bankrupt or face financial difficulties with the current business plan and cash flow, then you can be held responsible. Whoever is/are running things should have seen this coming. All this assuming that they planned on doing legitimate business.)

Well, the legal version is that they "should've known". Even if they really didn't think it would go wrong, they can still he held accountable.

And yes, TheMage his story is a combo of three theories that I've seen as possible options. Not much news in that sense. Though it's a signal that he gives up in a sense.

[Flep182]

UPDATE: opt2 instructions and Q&A will be available via website, Saturday, after balance update and a fast maintenance of the webserver.

Someone got his head out of his ass and devised a new deadline. Hands up for who thinks he's going to stick to it.