Could someone provide evidence that the majority of Russians aren't insane?

[Balthazar]

The racism...

This term is not quite suitable here because russian people belongs to the indo-european race. Unless author of this question is a member of other race.

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[RoadTrain]

In their own words, those attending the Atlantic Council gathering describe the battle for Ukraine being fought to “complete” their socioeconomic consolidation in Europe – this includes “integrating Russia.” Secretary John Kerry at the gathering would literally state:

    Our European Allies have spent more than 20 years with us working to integrate Russia into the Euro-Atlantic community.

By “integrating” Russia, of course, Kerry means overthrowing any independent national political order that exists in Moscow and replacing it with one that answers to Wall Street, London, and now Brussels. This can be seen clearly in attempts by the West to replicate its model of “color revolution” within Russian territory itself.

This is a good example of Russian insanity. When "The West" talks about integrating countries into its community, they are talking about opening up trade restrictions and expanding economic relations, mainly between private companies. When the Russia hears about integration, they immediately think "imperialistic expansion and installing puppet governments." Because that's what the Russia's policy itself is, or was, most of the time. (Sure, USA is guilty of that too at times, but USA is not the entirety of "the west")

Riiiiiiiiiight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

Almost none of those list anything other than what I described, trying to open up countries to foreign trade and such, even if by deposing communist dictators. Where is the list of countries USA decided to invade and control as part of USA?

I tried to refrain from commenting this, but I couldn't.
To "open up countries to foreign trade and such" is the most hilarious excuse for USA interventions into sovereign states that I've ever read. Ever.

[bryant.coleman]

Where is the list of countries USA decided to invade and control as part of USA?

This list is only partial, as I have not included countries such as (Western) Germany, Italy and Japan, which are under American military occupation ever since the World War 2.

1949 Greece
1952 Cuba
1953 Iran
1953 British Guyana
1954 Guatemala
1955 South Vietnam
1957 Haiti
1958 Laos
1960 South Korea
1960 Laos
1960 Ecuador.
1963 Dominican Republic
1963 South Vietnam
1963 Honduras
1963 Guatemala
1963 Ecuador.
1964 Brazil
1964 Bolivia
1965 Zaire.
1966 Ghana
1967 Greece
1970 Cambodia
1970 Bolivia
1972 El Salvador
1973 Chile
1979 South Korea (Pro-USA government wanted)
1980 Liberia
1982 Chad
1983 Grenada
1987 Fiji
1989 Panama
2001 Afghanistan
2002 Venezuela
2003 Iraq
2004 Haiti
2009 Honduras
2011 Libya
2011 Tunisia
2013 Egypt
2014 Ukraine

[Rassah]

Where is the list of countries USA decided to invade and control as part of USA?

This list is only partial, as I have not included countries such as (Western) Germany, Italy and Japan, which are under American military occupation ever since the World War 2.

While I don't support USA taking my tax money to set up military bases around the world...

You have a funny definition of "occupation." USA is paying Italy to keep their bases there. Germany started WW2, so kind of deserved being under watch for a while. Note that Germany is not actually occupied or owned by USA, USA just has a military base there, and Germany actually partners with USA to combine its military forces. Japan actually pays USA to keep their military base there, since it's easier for Japan to rent out US military for their defense, rather than build up their own (plus they were banned from having anything but defensive forces after WW2). Plus having a military base on your soil is not the same as "occupation." At least not the same as the way Russia typically occupies. Do you consider that every country that has McDonald's owning some land in it as "occupied" too?

1949 Greece - Still independent country.
1952 Cuba - Invasion failed, still communist socialist country, economy still sucks. Still independent country.
1953 Iran - Still communist socialist country, economy still sucks. Still independent country.
1953 British Guyana  - Still independent country.
1954 Guatemala  - Still independent country.
1955 South Vietnam  - Still independent country.
1957 Haiti  - Still independent country.
1958 Laos  - Still independent country.
1960 South Korea  - Still independent country.
1960 Laos  - Still independent country.
1960 Ecuador - Still independent country.
1963 Dominican Republic  - Still independent country.
1963 South Vietnam  - Still independent country.
1963 Honduras  - Still independent country.
1963 Guatemala  - Still independent country.
1963 Ecuador. - Still independent country.
1964 Brazil  - Still independent country.
1964 Bolivia  - Still independent country.
1965 Zaire. - Still independent country.
1966 Ghana  - Still independent country.
1967 Greece  - Still independent country.
1970 Cambodia  - Still independent country.
1970 Bolivia  - Still independent country.
1972 El Salvador  - Still independent country.
1973 Chile  - Still independent country.
1979 South Korea (Pro-USA government wanted) - Still independent country.
1980 Liberia  - Still independent country.
1982 Chad  - Still independent country.
1983 Grenada  - Still independent country.
1987 Fiji - Still independent country.
1989 Panama - Still independent country.
2001 Afghanistan - Invasion was supported by Afghanis under Taliban oppression. Still independent country.
2002 Venezuela - Still independent country.
2003 Iraq - Many of USA citizens protested the invasion as based on lies. In the end it was proven that USA government lied to citizens to start the war, and almost everyone agrees this was a bad thing. Still independent country.
2004 Haiti  - Previous presidential election was considered fraudulent by Haitians. Still independent country.
2009 Honduras  - Still independent country.
2011 Libya - Was asked for help by Lybians themselves. Still independent country.
2011 Tunisia - Still independent country.
2013 Egypt - Anti-government protests against dictator supported by US were started by Egyptians. US didn't intervene to keep their "puppet" in power. Still independent country.
2014 Ukraine - Anti-government protests were started by Ukrainians due to concerns of their president being a Russian puppet, not USA. Still independent country.

USA invades to disrupt what's happening in those countries, but doesn't actually try to take control of them and make them be a part of USA. Even then, I agree, what it is doing isn't necessarily a good thing. On the other hand, when Russia invades countries, it's usually to make them actually be a part of Russia. Also, the biggest difference between the intents is that USA invades to try to make the countries democratic and capitalist, while Russia invades to try to make the countries totalitarian and socialist/communist. Note that in that list, every country that USA invaded where USA lost, and the country remained socialist with either a dictator or a corrupt government, the economy REALLY sucks. While in every country where the invasion successfully repelled communists and/or opened the country to international trade, the economy has been improving considerably.

[Balthazar]

USA invades to disrupt what's happening in those countries,

And who asked them to do so? Using their logic, it's not their business what happens outside of their borders, am I right?

but doesn't actually try to take control of them and make them be a part of USA.

Yeah, they just turn them into colonies, raping their economy, buying all agricultural lands and stealing natural resources. That's much better than make them be a part of USA of course. Better for the USA.

On the other hand, when Russia invades countries, it's usually to make them actually be a part of Russia.

Let's try to use your own logic.

Finland - still independent country;
Poland - still independent country;
Germany - still independent country;
Iran - still independent country;
Mongolia - still independent country;
China - still independent country;
Hungaria - still independent country;
Vietnam - still independent country;
Afghanistan  - still independent country;
Abkhazia - still independent country;
South Ossetia - still independent country;

invades to try to make the countries democratic and capitalist

Oh yeah, I saw it in several countries with my own eyes.

Also, the biggest difference between the intents is that USA invades to try to make the countries democratic and capitalist, while Russia invades to try to make the countries totalitarian and socialist/communist.

What planet are you from? I won't ask whether you are a troll or you really believe in what you write, but USA can't make anyone democratic and capitalist because they're themselves neither democratic nor capitalist. It's a crony capitalist totalitarian regime which is supported by incredibly powerful brainwashing machine. And they're trying to establish the same crony capitalist regime everywhere, under guise of spreading the "democratic values". In the same way as the Soviet Union did it.

[RoadTrain]

@Balthazar, I couldn't agree more. And Rassah is a living proof of how powerful this brainwashing machine is.
Because it looks like he really believes that these interventions into sovereign states were actually for some idealistic democracy values. What a naivety.

[Balthazar]

@Balthazar, I couldn't agree more. And Rassah is a living proof of how powerful this brainwashing machine is.
Because it looks like he really believes that these interventions into sovereign states were actually for some idealistic democracy values. What a naivety.

We have to be lenient with our younger brothers. Because before the beginning of 1980s many of us employed a very similar pattern of behavior, you know what I mean... The blind belief into the democratic values... A persistent usage of the democracy as an excuse for military interventions and economical sanctions, combined with incredibly strong belief into the need of bringing the order to chaotic environment. It's all the same, but unlike them we've seen this before.  

[Rassah]

USA invades to disrupt what's happening in those countries,

And who asked them to do so? Using their logic, it's not their business what happens outside of their borders, am I right?

You are right, and I agree (unless they ARE asked by the country they go into). So, why don't you apply the same standard to Russia?

but doesn't actually try to take control of them and make them be a part of USA.

Yeah, they just turn them into colonies, raping their economy, buying all agricultural lands and stealing natural resources. That's much better than make them be a part of USA of course. Better for the USA.

None of those countries you listed are American colonies. I think USA has maybe two or three colonies that are island, at most. And, again, why don't you apply the same standard to Russia? Russia is the one "raping" the economy and oil fields in Iraq right now. No issues with that? And will you complain just as much when Russia starts raping the economy in Eastern Ukraine and taking their natural gas, too?

I won't ask whether you are a troll or you really believe in what you write, but USA can't make anyone democratic and capitalist because they're themselves neither democratic nor capitalist.

Huh. So, how are things going in Korea? Vietnam? Chile to name a few? Are they communist dictatorships like China or North Korea? Yes, they can't make anyone be democratic and capitalist, but they can help keep invading communist dictators at bay. And, again, I don't support either side invading, but at least the outcome of these guys is better than anything USSR and communists invaded.

We have to be lenient with our younger brothers. Because before the beginning of 1980s many of us employed a very similar pattern of behavior, you know what I mean... The blind belief into the democratic values... A persistent usage of the democracy as an excuse for military interventions and economical sanctions, combined with incredibly strong belief into the need of bringing the order to chaotic environment. It's all the same, but unlike them we've seen this before.  

And then you went right back to believing it, with your moronic defense of Russian military intervention to "spread democracy and bring order to the chaotic environment" in Eastern Ukraine. Pathetic.

[Honeypot]

Russian mentality is perfectly rational for anyone with even a drop of knowledge about their history.

As an American, I congratulate the russians on being steadfast, strong, and resilient, all the qualities Americans appreciate. They may be our adversaries, but that's why they are our equals more or less.

They may be irritating, but their hearts are in the right place - they are the other half of the equation for world stability.

[Honeypot]

USA invades to disrupt what's happening in those countries,

And who asked them to do so? Using their logic, it's not their business what happens outside of their borders, am I right?

You are right, and I agree (unless they ARE asked by the country they go into). So, why don't you apply the same standard to Russia?

but doesn't actually try to take control of them and make them be a part of USA.

Yeah, they just turn them into colonies, raping their economy, buying all agricultural lands and stealing natural resources. That's much better than make them be a part of USA of course. Better for the USA.

None of those countries you listed are American colonies. I think USA has maybe two or three colonies that are island, at most. And, again, why don't you apply the same standard to Russia? Russia is the one "raping" the economy and oil fields in Iraq right now. No issues with that? And will you complain just as much when Russia starts raping the economy in Eastern Ukraine and taking their natural gas, too?

I won't ask whether you are a troll or you really believe in what you write, but USA can't make anyone democratic and capitalist because they're themselves neither democratic nor capitalist.

Huh. So, how are things going in Korea? Vietnam? Chile to name a few? Are they communist dictatorships like China or North Korea? Yes, they can't make anyone be democratic and capitalist, but they can help keep invading communist dictators at bay. And, again, I don't support either side invading, but at least the outcome of these guys is better than anything USSR and communists invaded.

We have to be lenient with our younger brothers. Because before the beginning of 1980s many of us employed a very similar pattern of behavior, you know what I mean... The blind belief into the democratic values... A persistent usage of the democracy as an excuse for military interventions and economical sanctions, combined with incredibly strong belief into the need of bringing the order to chaotic environment. It's all the same, but unlike them we've seen this before. 

And then you went right back to believing it, with your moronic defense of Russian military intervention to "spread democracy and bring order to the chaotic environment" in Eastern Ukraine. Pathetic.

The fact of the matter is, vast majority of those nations who allied themselves with US got the better end of the deal, and unprecedented degree of phenomenal success, whether through direct US aid or indirect US influence.

Just like how every anti american fool ignores the sargat chemical research and manufacturing facility when bitching and 'NO WMD', these fuckers tend to try and not talk about obvious facts staring them in the face.

[RoadTrain]

The Rassah's idea is simple. The end justifies the means. Whether it's right is debatable.

[bryant.coleman]

Also, the biggest difference between the intents is that USA invades to try to make the countries democratic and capitalist, while Russia invades to try to make the countries totalitarian and socialist/communist.

Oh god...

In every nook and corner of the world, people are begging Barack Obama to invade their land and take their natural resources away, to make them more "Democratic and Capitalist". Just like what he did in countries such as Iraq (transferring power to ISIS from Saddam). People in Germany still thank the Americans for taking away their gold reserves... as that made them more "Democratic".

[Balthazar]

People in Germany still thank the Americans for taking away their gold reserves... as that made them more "Democratic".

It's OK for the colony. German people even isn't allowed to have a genuine constitution... Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany was established by the occupation administration in 1949 and it's still in force.

There is even a special genocide clause for germans, if one german kills a non german he potentially can be prosecuted for genocide and crimes against humanity.

[Rassah]

Russian mentality is perfectly rational for anyone with even a drop of knowledge about their history.

You mean them mostly being of Mongolian descent or culture,  with the Golden Horde khanate taking them over shortly after Moscovie was established, and either directly ruling or having a strong influence on it for centuries, breeding a culture of ruthlessness and need for conquer and expansion, until they finally receded and the Moscovie monarchy, being embarrassed about their Mongolian origins, imported top historians from Europe to rewrite Moscovie's history to be as if it came out of Ukraine, instead of the Khans, renamed Moscovie to the same name as what Ukraine was called at the time (pronounced "Kievskaya Rosiya") and just calling themselves THE Rosiya, stole Ukraine's history - which had nothing to do with Moscovie other than fighting off their (Mongolian) invasions throughout the centuries, convinced everyone that Ukraine is just a part of them, and thus should be "taken back," and established its country based on lies?

Yes, their mentality of a ruthless need to conquer, not have empathy for those they are taking over, and tendency to lie and change history without really caring about what is true or not, IS perfectly rational based on their history. It doesn't excuse them or make them rational people though (at least not the ones in power, or those too apathetic to care what is being done by those who rule them).

[Rassah]

Also, the biggest difference between the intents is that USA invades to try to make the countries democratic and capitalist, while Russia invades to try to make the countries totalitarian and socialist/communist.

Oh god...

In every nook and corner of the world, people are begging Barack Obama to invade their land and take their natural resources away, to make them more "Democratic and Capitalist". Just like what he did in countries such as Iraq (transferring power to ISIS from Saddam). People in Germany still thank the Americans for taking away their gold reserves... as that made them more "Democratic".

I did say that Americans regret the Iraq thing, and majority really disapprove of their government for making such a mistake, didn't I? But tell me, how many countries in the world are begging for Russia to take them over? Ukraine? Georgia? Is Afghanistan grateful for USSR coming in and destroying their country, which before they came was about as civilized and peaceful as Paris? Maybe East Germany wants to go back to being Russian again?

[bryant.coleman]

You mean them mostly being of Mongolian descent or culture

The amount of Mongolian blood present among the ethnic Russian population is minuscule, especially when compared to the Crimean Tatar - Nogay blood which is prevalent among the Ukrainians as a result of the slave raids and subsequent enslavement. That said, we were not talking about the racial origins of Russians and Ukrainians. If you want to do that, then go to Stormfront.

[Rassah]

You mean them mostly being of Mongolian descent or culture

The amount of Mongolian blood present among the ethnic Russian population is minuscule, especially when compared to the Crimean Tatar - Nogay blood which is prevalent among the Ukrainians as a result of the slave raids and subsequent enslavement. That said, we were not talking about the racial origins of Russians and Ukrainians. If you want to do that, then go to Stormfront.

That's why I said "culture." Is very comparable to the culture of Atila the Hun mongols, wanting to continuously expand its borders, pilage other countries and even their own people (Putin's gang stole $150 billion from Russians), the crazy dangerous amounts of nationalism (Putin's 87% approval rating and Russia having more neo-Nazis than any other county), general lack of empathy for those they take over and opress, and apathy for the ones doing atrocities in their name, and the seemingly constant search for enemies to hate and be against (did you know the rest of the world, and even America, didn't think much of Russia for the last few decades, and even considered them an ally, even while Russia considered "the west" as its imperialistic enemy?)

[bryant.coleman]

That's why I said "culture." Is very comparable to the culture of Atila the Hun mongols, wanting to continuously expand its borders

OK... take a close look.. a very close look at this map.



Now tell me who is stationing troops all over the world and continuously expanding the borders. Or should I give a lecture for you, about the countries which are currently under American occupation (Germany, Japan.etc) ?

[Rassah]

That's why I said "culture." Is very comparable to the culture of Atila the Hun mongols, wanting to continuously expand its borders

OK... take a close look.. a very close look at this map.



Now tell me who is stationing troops all over the world and continuously expanding the borders. Or should I give a lecture for you, about the countries which are currently under American occupation (Germany, Japan.etc) ?

Do you have a bigger version of that map with clearly visible country names? I can't tell if the countries with the dots in them are named USA. Just having a military base in a country doesn't mean the country is expanding its borders, since to set up a base you can buy the land and get permission from the government, you can pay the government to lease the land and use it for a base, or, like in some countries, you can even have the country pay you to have your base there and use your army for defense. In none of those cases are you actually required to charge your name to the name of the country with the base, learn their language, or vote for and submit to their presidents or rulers. Note that isn't the case if a country sends an army into your territory without your permission, kicks out your government, annexes you, and starts calling you by their own name. Like what USSR did, and like Russia is trying to with its old republics, most recently with Crimea.

Or is Crimea still part of Ukraine, but just has a Russian military base on it, like America has in Germany?

[bryant.coleman]

Or is Crimea still part of Ukraine, but just has a Russian military base on it, like America has in Germany?

After Germany was defeated in the WW2, they were forced to sign a number of humiliating treaties with the Unites States. There are limits to the strength of the German army and the weapons they could use. Also, they were forced to allow American military bases on the German soil. This can't be compared to the situation in Crimea, where Ukraine allowed the Russian base in order to receive gas discounts from Kremlin.