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Author Topic: will America ever be free again?  (Read 5626 times)
Robert Paulson
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August 29, 2014, 09:00:42 PM
 #1

before 1913 there was no income tax, no central bank, and gold was money.

in 1913 the constitution was amended to allow the government to directly tax the citizens and the federal reserve was established.
for 58 years the banks printed so much money and stole so much purchasing power that America had to default on its obligation to redeem dollars for gold altogether in 1971.

and now the situation has deteriorated to the point where you have to report to the government how much you make and pay taxes even if you don't live and work in America,
simply for being a holder of an American citizenship.

not only that but the government is forcing foreign banks to spy on Americans with FATCA, so much so that some foreign banks no longer want any American customers,
because spying on them is too much hassle.

America used to stand for freedom, it was the land of opportunities and the land of the free, where government was kept in check and money was honest.
it has become but a shadow of its former self, not much better than China and Russia.

will America ever return to be as it was at the beginning of the 20th century?
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Leina
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August 29, 2014, 10:14:35 PM
 #2

The law can only be enforced when US still have the influence and military might.

As soon as US lose that influence, no one will care what US want.
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August 30, 2014, 02:03:41 AM
 #3

The changes required to return to 1913 scenario would be drastic.
The Government has gotten used to living well. In spite of the high taxes, the fiscal deficit is growing.
So you need to have huge spending cuts before taxes can be reduced.

I see more rich Americans renouncing their citizenship to move to tax havens. You already have companies doing it through 'reverse-mergers'.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-biggest-tax-scam-ever-20140827
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August 30, 2014, 04:43:16 AM
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If you are asking if there will ever be a time when the US will not have any national taxes, then the answer is no. The reason for this is because the US has gotten too powerful internationally and economically and needs to police both the world and it's own economy.

As a result of this economic and military power, there are many more opportunities in the US then what would otherwise be.
Robert Paulson
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August 30, 2014, 10:25:23 AM
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If you are asking if there will ever be a time when the US will not have any national taxes, then the answer is no. The reason for this is because the US has gotten too powerful internationally and economically and needs to police both the world and it's own economy.

As a result of this economic and military power, there are many more opportunities in the US then what would otherwise be.

yes, the oppertunity to witness first hand the reenactment of the fall of the roman empire
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August 30, 2014, 10:59:01 AM
 #6

Seeing America return to what it used to be like at the beginning of the 20th century is something I do not see happening. They have let their power take over which has resulted in them not being a Country they once used to be. Even if they had the chance to go back to the way it was I don't see it happening any time soon.
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August 30, 2014, 11:43:32 AM
 #7

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

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August 30, 2014, 12:09:26 PM
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No free anymore. America is greedy with its global influence and power. It never wont stop fisical and military spending. So the government is always looking for ways of covering its huge deficit, like tax, increasing debt limit etc.

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August 30, 2014, 12:11:59 PM
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America used to stand for freedom, it was the land of opportunities and the land of the free, where government was kept in check and money was honest.

The sad thing is I think most American's still believe the propoganda and are under the illusion that they are 'free'. Will it ever change? Only if they ever elect somone who actually gives a shit and isnt in the pockets of the war machine.
Robert Paulson
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August 30, 2014, 12:28:07 PM
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This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

weird, somehow society functioned just fine up until 1913.
non of your personal income tax goes to pay for any public services anyway, most of it went to bailout failed banks.
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August 30, 2014, 01:06:38 PM
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This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

If all the wealthy people migrate, it isn't going to do the rest any good, right? We should ensure that successful individuals are given incentives to stay in the country and are not driven away.
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August 30, 2014, 02:12:09 PM
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America used to stand for freedom, it was the land of opportunities and the land of the free, where government was kept in check and money was honest.

The sad thing is I think most American's still believe the propoganda and are under the illusion that they are 'free'. Will it ever change? Only if they ever elect somone who actually gives a shit and isnt in the pockets of the war machine.

The world is relative.

To compare to the rest of the world, US is still by far the one of the most free country in the world.
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August 30, 2014, 04:32:12 PM
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America used to stand for freedom, it was the land of opportunities and the land of the free, where government was kept in check and money was honest.

The sad thing is I think most American's still believe the propoganda and are under the illusion that they are 'free'. Will it ever change? Only if they ever elect somone who actually gives a shit and isnt in the pockets of the war machine.

The world is relative.

To compare to the rest of the world, US is still by far the one of the most free country in the world.
It's free for people who have a wealth and has a power and reach to higher levels.No country is ever free for us middle class and struggling people.
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August 30, 2014, 08:12:19 PM
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will America ever return to be as it was at the beginning of the 20th century?

Ah, the good old days -- when women weren't legally allowed to vote, right? When laws were skewed to favor white, male property owners above all others? I wonder if old white men from the early 20th century fantasized about a return to the days when they could legally own slaves as well. Roll Eyes
Robert Paulson
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August 30, 2014, 09:17:01 PM
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will America ever return to be as it was at the beginning of the 20th century?

Ah, the good old days -- when women weren't legally allowed to vote, right? When laws were skewed to favor white, male property owners above all others? I wonder if old white men from the early 20th century fantasized about a return to the days when they could legally own slaves as well. Roll Eyes

great, everyone is allowed to vote today, its just a shame that the only candidates are from the two parties who have the money to run in the elections.
what good is the right to vote when no candidate can ever win if they are not a republican or a democrat.

why only two parties have enough money to win an election? because the banks won't fund anyone else.
the banks use the money they rob from every American every second of every day to prop up their own politicians.

so yes in the good old days when money was honest and the banks couldn't simply print it out of thin air to buy the politicians at least half of the population could vote in a manner that could change something.
today no one's vote matters, but hey good for the women for getting the right to cast a meaningless vote...
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August 30, 2014, 09:43:18 PM
 #16

Yeah, so how in hell are you going to trade everything with Gold? exactly, it's a dumb thing in the 21st century. Gold is just a nice looking asset that you can wear as a chain and spit some gangta rap lines, but in this fast modern worldwide communicated society, it's outdated. Now FIAT is shit and prone to collapse. Whats left? Exactly, BT fucking C.

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August 30, 2014, 09:45:28 PM
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so yes in the good old days when money was honest and the banks couldn't simply print it out of thin air to buy the politicians at least half of the population could vote in a manner that could change something.
today no one's vote matters, but hey good for the women for getting the right to cast a meaningless vote...

You think this all boils down to "honest money"? The banking monopoly is only a small piece of the puzzle. The use of hierarchical power against the oppressed is human's perpetual history.

The point is that the early 1900s in no way represent freedom. It was simply more of a "wild west" of opportunity within a context of drastic political, social and economic inequality. The comment on women being treated as second class citizens is only the tip of the iceberg. And the point is that "government monopolies" are the not the only ones to consider.
Robert Paulson
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August 30, 2014, 10:13:31 PM
 #18

Yeah, so how in hell are you going to trade everything with Gold? exactly, it's a dumb thing in the 21st century. Gold is just a nice looking asset that you can wear as a chain and spit some gangta rap lines, but in this fast modern worldwide communicated society, it's outdated. Now FIAT is shit and prone to collapse. Whats left? Exactly, BT fucking C.

i won't trade in gold, ill trade everything in bitcoin.
precious metals and bitcoin are the only things that can function as money because nothing else has the properties money must have:

1. limited in supply - can't be created arbitrarily out of thin air
2. portable
3. durable
4. divisible
5. fungible - all money units are identical in purchasing power.

fiat fails badly on the first point which allows banks to steal purchasing power from everyone else.
Robert Paulson
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August 30, 2014, 10:20:19 PM
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so yes in the good old days when money was honest and the banks couldn't simply print it out of thin air to buy the politicians at least half of the population could vote in a manner that could change something.
today no one's vote matters, but hey good for the women for getting the right to cast a meaningless vote...

You think this all boils down to "honest money"? The banking monopoly is only a small piece of the puzzle. The use of hierarchical power against the oppressed is human's perpetual history.

The point is that the early 1900s in no way represent freedom. It was simply more of a "wild west" of opportunity within a context of drastic political, social and economic inequality. The comment on women being treated as second class citizens is only the tip of the iceberg. And the point is that "government monopolies" are the not the only ones to consider.

no time period is 100% perfect, but it was much better than today.
and yes it pretty much boils down to honest money .
money is the most important thing to guarantee freedom, simply because money is one of the most important things in life.

whoever holds the money holds the power, free elections mean nothing when a bunch of private banks can create money out of thin air and are holding everyone including the government hostage.
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August 30, 2014, 10:21:52 PM
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Considering it'll take the government committing genocide (starting a hot civil war) to have anyone start prosecuting traitors...

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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