will America ever be free again?

[boraf]

There is zero chance America the Nation will be free again, now I could see a civil war and a new nation formed on the idea that was America.  It would have to be written in stone all over the country WHY a civil war was needed or we'll land right back at where we are now.

IMO a civil war won't happen either almost all western  people are super super super lazy and scared of everything.  Here we are thinking we'll win a war with Russia LMAO... we wouldn't be able to handle the loss of luxuary.

The massacre on the street suggested America is too free to do whatever the people want.

There is a need to strike a balance between security and freedom.

[1714139934]

1714139934

[counter]

I tend to lean towards yes.    
I know, I know what your thinking.  How could that happen?  Well the average person knows right from wrong when they are given a chance to fully understand the situations they face.  People will be forced to fight back for what is theirs or live as debt slaves.  Facts are the people are the majority and the is coming when the majority of people will demand real significant change that takes the control out of the small few who currently pull the strings behind the scenes.  Not saying this will be a easy process but from what I can tell it is already taking place in the hearts and minds of people all over the world.

[thresher]

No.

Yeah, so how in hell are you going to trade everything with Gold? exactly, it's a dumb thing in the 21st century. Gold is just a nice looking asset that you can wear as a chain and spit some gangta rap lines, but in this fast modern worldwide communicated society, it's outdated. Now FIAT is shit and prone to collapse. Whats left? Exactly, BT fucking C.

Imagine going into a strip club, and tipping girls with btc.  Not much variety, not too exciting. 

Imagine going into a strip club, giving an ugly girl a dollar, a pretty one a five, tipping one of the girls that comes up to you an 100, guess what, noone knows what you did.

Now imagine going to a strip club and giving the ugly girls a copper coin, giving the pretty girls a silver coin, and then taking a handful of gold coins slamming it on the bar.......shortly after two girls approach you, and you venture into the alley outside..... where unfortunately you get mugged.    

Seriously though i'd love to see the government print a trillion dollars in gold when they fuck up..........oh wait you mean you can't just make gold.

[botany]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

[wasserman99]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

No the FED has a mandate to use interest rates to try to both keep inflation low while also trying to have the economy reach maximum employment.

Congress is the check on the executive branch's spending as they must pass a budget/spending bill that allows for money to be spent in the executive branch. 

[pungopete468]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

Negative, the Federal Reserve is a non-government organization...

[cbeast]

Negative, the Federal Reserve is an anti-government organization...

FTFY

[Timetwister]

Negative, the Federal Reserve is a non-government organization...

Which has the enormous privilege, given by the government, of being able to print legal tender money. It would be inoffensive if it wasn't for that.

[wasserman99]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

Negative, the Federal Reserve is a non-government organization...

The federal reserve is part of the government. It does not have the same oversight as other agencies due to politics could easily get in the way of it doing a good job, however every single one of it's employees are government employees, and it's budget is part of the overall government budget.

[Robert Paulson]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

Negative, the Federal Reserve is a non-government organization...

The federal reserve is part of the government. It does not have the same oversight as other agencies due to politics could easily get in the way of it doing a good job, however every single one of it's employees are government employees, and it's budget is part of the overall government budget.

if the federal reserve is part of the government that means the government has stocks that by law pay 6% dividend to the commercial banks.
not only that but you'll never be able to get any of these stocks because they cannot be sold or traded by law, you will be a slave forever.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

they say its not run for profit but for some reason it pays 6% dividends to the commercial banks who hold its stocks 

i think this is also the place to quote the former director of the bank of England Josiah Stamp

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.

[botany]

i think this is also the place to quote the former director of the bank of England Josiah Stamp

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.

Bankers would shudder to have somebody with these views at the helm of a regulatory body. 

[flyingcatt]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

[jjacob]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

Freedom doesn't mean financial freedom alone. 

[wasserman99]

This is starting to sound a bit like one of those threads for people who think tax shouldn't exist at all, so I'm hoping I've got the wrong impression there.  There needs to be a balance, sure.  And at the moment, the balance is probably a little off.  But regressing back to a time where there was much less public infrastructure to support isn't going to solve any problems.  Society wouldn't function unless there's money available to pay for public services.  Go and buy a tiny island somewhere if you can't accept that.

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

On top of that, spending in healthcare, education and many other necessities are cut.

Every year, taxes become higher and higher, while spending becomes less and less.

The whole tax system is flawed, and the main reason is that the federal reserve prints money and loans it with interest to the government and to us. If anything, governments should print their own money or have loans without interest. Interest is what is causing all the financial problems in the world.

Isn't the federal reserve a part of the government? It is just a double check mechanism to ensure that the executive doesn't overspend, resulting in high inflation in the economy.

Negative, the Federal Reserve is a non-government organization...

The federal reserve is part of the government. It does not have the same oversight as other agencies due to politics could easily get in the way of it doing a good job, however every single one of it's employees are government employees, and it's budget is part of the overall government budget.

if the federal reserve is part of the government that means the government has stocks that by law pay 6% dividend to the commercial banks.
not only that but you'll never be able to get any of these stocks because they cannot be sold or traded by law, you will be a slave forever.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

they say its not run for profit but for some reason it pays 6% dividends to the commercial banks who hold its stocks 

i think this is also the place to quote the former director of the bank of England Josiah Stamp

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.

Are you talking about the preferred dividends that were issued by big banks as part of the TARP bailout? If so then most of these have been sold by the government (usually back to the issuing banks). I believe that the treasury actually owned these shares not the federal reserve (at the end of the day whoever owned them it was still the government).

[giveBTCpls]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

Freedom doesn't mean financial freedom alone. 

But its a big part of being free by definition. No one likes to get told what to do, henceforth you unfortunately need to be rich to avoid being told what the fuck to do with your daily life and how you manage your time. So yes, we need 1 BTC to go really fucking high to save us all from the boredom of the daily life struggle, otherwise i'll just jump on a train in the next decade.

[dadugan]

not a single country had income tax prior to the 1900s

why do we need income tax as high as 58% in some countries now, and over 40% in most western countries?

Of course we don't "need" that. Only parasites that work for the government, or get subsidies, need to steal money from productive people.

Problem is all companies in the west take subsidies in one form or another. And most people benefit directly or indirectly from the welfare system.

[snappa4ever]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

Freedom doesn't mean financial freedom alone. 

Freedom usually has nothing to do with money. It usually has to do more with people being able to think and speak their own opinion without the fear of being coerced by the government. 

[jjacob]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

Freedom doesn't mean financial freedom alone. 

Freedom usually has nothing to do with money. It usually has to do more with people being able to think and speak their own opinion without the fear of being coerced by the government. 

Correct. The Arabs are rich with oil money. They aren't looked upon as a free society.

[gts476]

America used to stand for freedom, it was the land of opportunities and the land of the free, where government was kept in check and money was honest.

The sad thing is I think most American's still believe the propoganda and are under the illusion that they are 'free'. Will it ever change? Only if they ever elect somone who actually gives a shit and isnt in the pockets of the war machine.

The world is relative.

To compare to the rest of the world, US is still by far the one of the most free country in the world.

Compared to Iran maybe, USSA is slipping! New Zealand is #1 free English speaking country.

[gts476]

Yes, when fucking stupid FIAT from hell gets buried, BTC is 5 million a piece, then at least i'll be free, I dont know about dumb anti BTC haters tho, they will probably cry with their dollars at night.

Freedom doesn't mean financial freedom alone. 

Freedom usually has nothing to do with money. It usually has to do more with people being able to think and speak their own opinion without the fear of being coerced by the government. 

Correct. The Arabs are rich with oil money. They aren't looked upon as a free society.

Freedom has a lot to do with money.

If freedom has a lot to do with private property and money is private property, so money must have a lot to do with freedom.