Cloud mining, profitable or not?

[Theo75]

Cloud mining has been a heated topic recently. Some analysts say although the price of coins is going down, the price of cloud mining is rising in general. And some cloud mining providers have even run of stocks of their products.

To me the market a little weird. I think for the cloud mining industry to better develop, it should invite more competition. And buyers should evaluate the risk and returns in advance.

What is your thought on this?

The Reason we Cloud Mine is To Obtain Coin w/o inflated Platform Prices, and to sell coin once its become profitable.

Want an example of a cloud mining that is profitable, the person that buys Cloud Share right before the price of coin goes up.

Those who wish to buy something like a cloud contract and then sell the coins immediately are well Near sighted and of course 99% time Loose any return on their investment.

Just ask the Guy with 1000 Bitcoins he bought at 20$ uSD a piece and sold at 90$ woot profit huh

20 * 1000 20,000 invested
1000 * 90  90,000   Cashed out
1000 * 1200  1,200,000 Max profit....
                  1,110,000 Profit Missed


There were days when CLoud Mining BTC was not profitable wat so ever yet had those Cloud miners held for 6 months they would have profited 1000%'s of percent.

Simple,

I think you smoked too much weed and "brokjen" your head.  Cloud mining will, in almost 99.999% of the cases return less coins then you could have just purchased.  You're also then at risk of losing out on a price spike to sell because you'll be sitting there with your thumb up your but waiting to earn your coins back hoping the spike doesnt deflate beflre you get your chedder back.

And that is why Cex.io was "smart" and the buyers of their hash were "stupid".

Buy 1000 BTC in Jan 2013 for about $13K on BTCe
Move coins to cold wallet
Sell 1000 BTC in Dec 2013 for $1.2Million on BTCe

Total time invested, about 20 minutes and daily checking of prices.

Mining on cloud mining or selling on cex.io to try to break even - endless nights of work to gain 1BTC.

Comedy of errors.

I think that gambling with cryptocoins and mining cryptocoins is a pretty different task. Mining has its own magic. Also when you decide to become a miner you have to follow all new altcoins and be alert for any new and interesting coins. In case I knew (and anyone of us knew) that BTC would sky-rocket on Jan 13 I would have definitely bought some BTC back then. But this is a retrospective approach and nobody knows what the future of any coin will be. We, as miners keep all coins going. Without mining all minable coins would be dead.

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[DrG]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

[jonnybravo0311]

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

The part I bolded is exactly the case the majority of the time.  People think, "I can just leave my computer running and it will make me lots of money!" Because there is indeed money involved, people will find creative ways to sucker you out of yours.  It truly amazes me the sheer number of people unwilling to do the slightest bit of research, yet willing to toss money at a thing.  It's no wonder scams like Lunamine are so prevalent... people keep lining up to throw away their money.

[Theo75]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

[Theo75]

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

The part I bolded is exactly the case the majority of the time.  People think, "I can just leave my computer running and it will make me lots of money!" Because there is indeed money involved, people will find creative ways to sucker you out of yours.  It truly amazes me the sheer number of people unwilling to do the slightest bit of research, yet willing to toss money at a thing.  It's no wonder scams like Lunamine are so prevalent... people keep lining up to throw away their money.

I think that anybody that thinks that he can be rich by having its computer running is naive to say the least. Nowadays with all the scam coins and also with several non-reliable providers you have to be extra cautious. You have to think very carefully before you decide which coin to mine, you have to make your own research and bear the risk that is involved in your decisions. There is no magic wand that can turn a miner into an endless cash machine. Mining is prediction and luck. We have seen coins starting with the best intentions dying within weeks (market manipulation, whale attacks, etc.). It is a risky region with no standard revenue, but if you play your cards right you may make some hefty profit. But most of all I think that you should enjoy mining, enjoy guessing which will become the next coin of the day.

[DrG]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

[Theo75]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

[DrG]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

But why mine!?!  Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies.  In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block.

How many people know about credit card PCI compliance?  Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card.  Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for.

For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization.  For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up.  My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year.  It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved.

Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization.

[Anna Chan]

Cloud mining has been a heated topic recently. Some analysts say although the price of coins is going down, the price of cloud mining is rising in general. And some cloud mining providers have even run of stocks of their products.

To me the market a little weird. I think for the cloud mining industry to better develop, it should invite more competition. And buyers should evaluate the risk and returns in advance.

What is your thought on this?

Many discussions on this topic.  DrG has a great post about cloud mining here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739510.0.

The short of it is that cloud mining companies are businesses, and the goal of any business is to make a profit.  As such, they have designed their services in such a way as to minimize the risk on themselves and transfer it to you.  You, as the consumer, have little to no chance to ever profit.

transfer all risks to customers? then that is not a business. scale effect of the business can help to lower the risks which couldn't achieve by single customer.
if you have a big mining farm, you would have a more professional technical team to do the maintenance work. Might also lower other different costs. It is a win
win deal if it is a reliable company.

[Theo75]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

But why mine!?!  Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies.  In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block.

How many people know about credit card PCI compliance?  Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card.  Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for.

For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization.  For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up.  My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year.  It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved.

Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization.

As I have already mentioned earlier mining is also fun. And import taxes and high electricity prices make physical mining difficult if some cases (my case too). So unless you live in a country with low electricity price and low import taxes cloud mining is a really convenient solution!

[FLYFLYFLY]

I have learnt something from you guys here. I would definitely be careful if I would like to choose one cloud mining to invest.

[AnnyHan]

Of course,it can be profitable. I don't have to warn my little one of heated miners ,huh huh

Heat is a big problem especially in the subtropical zone such as my hometown, Guangdong, China. Another problem is the noise, my family has argue with me about the problem

[Theo75]

I have learnt something from you guys here. I would definitely be careful if I would like to choose one cloud mining to invest.

Indeed you must not trust any new company which does not have a good track record. Go for companies with proven history of success and companies that care for their customers. I am sure you can find a couple companies fitting that description in this thread and do your own due diligence before you decide!

[DrG]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

But why mine!?!  Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies.  In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block.

How many people know about credit card PCI compliance?  Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card.  Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for.

For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization.  For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up.  My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year.  It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved.

Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization.

As I have already mentioned earlier mining is also fun. And import taxes and high electricity prices make physical mining difficult if some cases (my case too). So unless you live in a country with low electricity price and low import taxes cloud mining is a really convenient solution!

Having built my own farm I know mining can be fun.  But for the very noobie people you were talking about mining would not be fun. Those kind of people can barely operate a PC - why would they want to stare at graphs all day long.  They would want to go to Bloomindales and spend their BTC.

For those where it makes no sense to own the miner in their house there's always colocation centers.  These would allow the miner to chose his pool or p2pool and help decentralize rather than have all the power herded into one place.  Colocating miners is cheaper than cloud hashing and you get the pride of owning your own hardware.

[MightyBTC]

I guess people won't rent their miners unless they get a little higher rate than what they would get mining themselves.But if the price of coin goes up then for sure cloud mining is profitable

[DrG]

I guess people won't rent their miners unless they get a little higher rate than what they would get mining themselves.But if the price of coin goes up then for sure cloud mining is profitable

Not really.  Well it is profitable in fiat return potentially but not the way most miners think of profit.  If you spend 1BTC to buy hashing power but only get back 0.8BTC it doesn't matter if the BTC is worth $5 or $5000 - you still lost 0.2BTC.  If all you want to do is make fiat - buy the BTC on an exchange and hope it goes up - no contract to deal with whatsoever.  Just make sure to move the coins off an exchange if you're not actively trading.

[Theo75]

The decision to use cloudmining services depends on your needs.

There are some people who want to get involved personally (hands-on). Cloud-mining is not for them.

There are numerous other people (many of them almost without any basic knowledge or experience in altcoins) who would be willing to learn but think that this is a difficult task for them (e.g. setting the miners themselves etc.) and/or people lacking the space to have their own miner.

As far as profitability is concerned it all comes to lucky guesses as it always is the case in the crypto world. Can you find a good coin to mine before it becomes a main-stream hit, then you will have profits. Did you put all your money to mine a scam coin you will lose.

Nothing in cryptoworld is straight forward!

Just my 5 cents!

These kind of people should not be involved with mining.  If you don't have the time or the energy to get involved with physical mining then you don't need to contribute to the demise of a currency by helping to centralize it.  If you promote cloud mining are you promoting centralization, particularly if you are supporting large mining entities like cex.io.  That would be like people wanting to get involved in helping put out a fire by standing with a garden hose while blocking the path of a firefighter with a 3" line.

There are many ways to get involved with crypto and make money.  Mining is but one aspect.  People are looking for easy money and they think they can throw some cash at a website and have more cash come back.

I do not think that we should leave mining only to the hands of "experts". If we want cryptocurrencies to be really decentralized we should try and get more people involved. How on earth are we promoting cryptocurrencies if we tell people who want to learn more and get involved but do not have the required skills (at the moment), e.g. older people lacking even the basic computer skills to  stay away. This elitist approach will not help spread the word and promote decentralization. The lesser people involved the higher the centralization. I think this is the equation.

Please also note that there are other issues which make physical mining more difficult. To name but a few, high electricity costs in some countries, import taxes, lack of space in an apartment, etc. All these issues are resolved with cloud mining. But the most important thing is to find a respectable vendor and as it is always the case in crypto world only spend what you can handle to lose.

Either you did not read my post in entirety or you did not understand it.  Trust me when I say my stake in BTC is far larger than yours and I hope it succeeds.  I have seen all kinds of scams and problems arise and these have been overcome.

I'm not saying only experts should mine.  if that were the case only Satoshi and the devs would be mining right now as nobody would have started.  I don't even have a job related to computers - I'm a physician.  What I am saying is people should not be getting into mining without knowing the slightest bit about mining.  Throwing money at cloud mining promotes the very centralization that you say would be the demise.  You think the cloud mining companies have their hash spread over 46 pools?

Mining is just one aspect of BTC.  There is no trust needed unlike banks and the current fiat system.  The due diligence remains on the community.  If we the community can't ask a minimal level of reading before jumping on mining then this effort is doomed.  If you're mining you have internet access.  Every bit of knowledge on this board is offered for free.  All it costs is people's time.  People who can't spend 1 hour to do some basic reading and understand that even a 10 year would understand should not be mining IMO.

Maybe you have misunderstood me too! My point is that cloud mining is a nice entry level for people to get into mining and during this process to start adopting and learning more about mining and cryptocurrencies in general. You cannot attract e.g. older people who have only basic computer skills in crypto world if you ask them to learn how to set a miner themselves. I am not a computer expert but I can say that my computer skills are average or above average but it has been a pain when I have started to setup my miners at the beginning. So my point is that with cloud mining you can convince more people to get involved and when more people get involved we can achieve decentralization. When more people hold BTC, LTC etc. then it is less likely for whales to manipulate the crypto world. When more people start to get interested about cryptocurrencies they will start to research more about this. This is the way that I got involved in this, and I think that nobody was an expert before entering the mining world. Mining is fun and research and as you say due diligence is a must! See what happened to Cyprus and the bank deposits confiscation for example. Who could imaging this 2 years ago? So, I also do think that you should due your own due diligence before choosing the right provider. Using a trusted and respectable company is a must or else you may very well see your money lost forever!

But why mine!?!  Mining is keeping the network up and the only reason people are concerned (the masses anyway) is because of the block subsidies.  In 2 years it gets cut to 12.5 per block.

How many people know about credit card PCI compliance?  Probably less than 1% of people out there and yet everybody in the US has a card.  Everybody uses GPS but less than 10% even know what the initials stand for.

For Bitcoin to thrive we need decentralization.  For that we need people running small rigs in their house that are easy to set up.  My Antminer S3 is worlds ahead of the BFL single I bought last year.  It has not come to the point that it "plug and play" - maybe when Google, MSFT or AAPL get involved.

Having a mining company that is 20% of the network sell you small amounts of TH/S that is fractionally truncated via software is not my idea of decentralization.

As I have already mentioned earlier mining is also fun. And import taxes and high electricity prices make physical mining difficult if some cases (my case too). So unless you live in a country with low electricity price and low import taxes cloud mining is a really convenient solution!

Having built my own farm I know mining can be fun.  But for the very noobie people you were talking about mining would not be fun. Those kind of people can barely operate a PC - why would they want to stare at graphs all day long.  They would want to go to Bloomindales and spend their BTC.

For those where it makes no sense to own the miner in their house there's always colocation centers.  These would allow the miner to chose his pool or p2pool and help decentralize rather than have all the power herded into one place.  Colocating miners is cheaper than cloud hashing and you get the pride of owning your own hardware.

Unfortunately there are no cheap collocation centers where I live. Moreover, the electricity price is high and there are also very high import charges. I think that in my case and in similar cases cloud mining may be the only solution.

[ajw7989]

Cloud Mining can be profitable depending when you get in. Many people who started cloudmining with pbming (like me) in the beginning already reached ROI and now it is all profit. You have to do your own calculations including a little luck based on how you think the difficulty will go (based on new miners coming out etc)

[BitcoinHeroes]

Cloud Mining can be profitable depending when you get in. Many people who started cloudmining with pbming (like me) in the beginning already reached ROI and now it is all profit. You have to do your own calculations including a little luck based on how you think the difficulty will go (based on new miners coming out etc)

Nice, was to afraid to enter into pbmining. Too many scam in bitcoin world..

[DrG]

Cloud Mining can be profitable depending when you get in. Many people who started cloudmining with pbming (like me) in the beginning already reached ROI and now it is all profit. You have to do your own calculations including a little luck based on how you think the difficulty will go (based on new miners coming out etc)

Until PBMining is able to show me their block generation or information regarding their incorporation I'm going to assume they are a ponzi. Gavin labeled cloud mining as such and PBMining's response was to show some pics of a mining center.  That doesn't really prove anything.