What happens to the wicked upon death?

[noviapriani]

Zolace,
Jude 1:7 ...'Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.'

2 Peter 2:6 ...'And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly.'

Yes eternal fire is mentioned in your Matt 25 and also in Jude talking about the same fate for the wicked, yes they ALL end up in the lake of fire, but as in Sodom and Gomorrah the fire is no longer burning. The eternal fire is speaking of God, an eternal, consuming fire. We have discussed the forever translation

On the first section of my thread, I am asking what happens to the Lake of Fire itself (after all have been consumed).   Is that what you are responding to?  If so, I am missing it.

Well what do you think happens to it? God destroys the old things and creates a new heavens and earth, and i never said no one spends any time in the lake of fire
I compared the lake of fire via the bible to Sodom and Gommorha which burned out long ago, which is also called an "eternal fire" refering to God as an Eternal fire not the fire itself.

[BADecker]

Of course, then there is the true meaning of the thousand years. The thousand years is a figurative term. It started about the time that Jesus died and arose. This is when Satan was thrown into the abyss and it was locked and sealed over him.

Jesus is the angel spoken about in the Revelation that does this. He did it by His death and resurrection.

My guess is that we are near the end of the "thousand years." We are getting to the point "As in the days of Noah ... ." Babylon in the Revelation is the banking system and the governments that work with it - read the description. Satan will destroy Babylon and burn her with fire. The people of the world will help him.

Satan can do the destruction of Babylon because he is back up from the abyss. The reason he is allowed back up is because the people are asking for him (indirectly through their denial of God). Also, he is back up to be taken to the lake of fire, similar to the way a condemned criminal is walked from his cell to the execution chamber.

[zolace]

Rigon,You have three people in this thread alone who agree that the Lake of Fire exists.  Who agree that there are folks who will find there way there.

Who are discussing what exactly happens then at that point when they get there.

You disagreeing with us is fine - we are not in agreement about what happens at that point.  This thread was open to any views on the subect, not just what the bible say.

There is the view that regardless of how wicked one is in this life, they do not always reap what they sow.  That when Hitler dies, the end result is no different than when Mother Teresa dies.

[Rigon]

Rigon,You have three people in this thread alone who agree that the Lake of Fire exists.  Who agree that there are folks who will find there way there.

Who are discussing what exactly happens then at that point when they get there.

You disagreeing with us is fine - we are not in agreement about what happens at that point.  This thread was open to any views on the subect, not just what the bible say.

There is the view that regardless of how wicked one is in this life, they do not always reap what they sow.  That when Hitler dies, the end result is no different than when Mother Teresa dies.

......all of which is as relevent as the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

How can you people have a disagreement over your irrational superstitious beliefs? It's not like any of you are going to best the other with anything material. Is one of you going to die, visit this imaginary lake of fire, and then return and tell us all about it?

[zolace]

Need to still review some of the material here, but, here are a couple of other passages to put on the table:

Matthew 8:12

10 And when Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And the servant was healed in that hour.

Clearly there is a time of torment for those who choose it over their Creator.  Does not give a length of time, which seems to be the only thing in question.

And, expanded from the OP, Matthew 25:41.  Final destination of the wicked is with the devil and his angels as discussed (and I believed agreed to) earlier.  Was reading 2 Peter, and got directed to these verses.  Regarding eternal fire and eternal punishment and eternal life in these passages - all eternal, as far as the English word used.  If same Greek word, one would expect them to mean the same thing in this passage.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

[sana8410]

When you see the word Eternal in the Bible it refers to God, or all things related to God. So we did go over this, the Eternal fire is a synonym for God, its not a fire that burns forever. If you review the thread you will see what death is, you will see the wicked are destroyed, devoured, not left root or branch. Eternal Punishment is death for eternity, no hope of life again

Psalm 68:2 ...'As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.'

Why do the wicked perish at the presence of God? because God is the eternal fire, all consuming

[zolace]

When you see the word Eternal in the Bible it refers to God, or all things related to God. So we did go over this, the Eternal fire is a synonym for God, its not a fire that burns forever. If you review the thread you will see what death is, you will see the wicked are destroyed, devoured, not left root or branch. Eternal Punishment is death for eternity, no hope of life again

Psalm 68:2 ...'As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.'

Why do the wicked perish at the presence of God? because God is the eternal fire, all consuming

But this reference to the eternal fire obviously does not refer to God.  God does not need to be prepared.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels

[sana8410]

When you see the word Eternal in the Bible it refers to God, or all things related to God. So we did go over this, the Eternal fire is a synonym for God, its not a fire that burns forever. If you review the thread you will see what death is, you will see the wicked are destroyed, devoured, not left root or branch. Eternal Punishment is death for eternity, no hope of life again

Psalm 68:2 ...'As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.'

Why do the wicked perish at the presence of God? because God is the eternal fire, all consuming

But this reference to the eternal fire obviously does not refer to God.  God does not need to be prepared.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels

I don't see the point . God prepares for them their destiny, just as he prepares many things for judgment and salvation

John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

[Rigon]

Do you not see that you are each demonstrating the contradictions of the Bible? Actually neither if you are wrong in your individual assessments of the topic, but your disagreement is based upon interpretations of contradicting scriptures.

[zolace]

When you see the word Eternal in the Bible it refers to God, or all things related to God. So we did go over this, the Eternal fire is a synonym for God, its not a fire that burns forever. If you review the thread you will see what death is, you will see the wicked are destroyed, devoured, not left root or branch. Eternal Punishment is death for eternity, no hope of life again

Psalm 68:2 ...'As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.'

Why do the wicked perish at the presence of God? because God is the eternal fire, all consuming

But this reference to the eternal fire obviously does not refer to God.  God does not need to be prepared.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels

I don't see the point . God prepares for them their destiny, just as he prepares many things for judgment and salvation

John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

So, when Jesus goes to prepare a place, is he preparing God himself?  No.  God is not a place.In the same way, the eternal fire being prepared is no more God himself.

[Rigon]

...and most of your disagreement is between Old and New Testament; teachings of Jesus versus the teaching of Paul.Those are always going to conflict.

[zolace]

Do you not see that you are each demonstrating the contradictions of the Bible? Actually neither if you are wrong in your individual assessments of the topic, but your disagreement is based upon interpretations of contradicting scriptures.

they could indeed be actual conflicts, or, context, etc is not being considered.

There have been other supposed conflicts with various (even technical documents at work here) that are later shown not to be.  But, sometimes there are conflicts.

[BADecker]

Do you not see that you are each demonstrating the contradictions of the Bible? Actually neither if you are wrong in your individual assessments of the topic, but your disagreement is based upon interpretations of contradicting scriptures.

It only shows the contradictions in people. People simply don't have the ability to hold in their minds, all the points of the Bible. When people are able to do this, holding ALL the points in ALL their proper context, then will we finally come to understand the clear truth of God. St. Paul says that now we see in a mirror - mirrors back then were polished metal that didn't reflect very well - but then we will see God face to Face.

[Rigon]

Do you not see that you are each demonstrating the contradictions of the Bible? Actually neither if you are wrong in your individual assessments of the topic, but your disagreement is based upon interpretations of contradicting scriptures.

they could indeed be actual conflicts, or, context, etc is not being considered.

There have been other supposed conflicts with various (even technical documents at work here) that are later shown not to be.  But, sometimes there are conflicts.

I was honest when I said you both are debating superstitious bullshit, which is what you both are doing.I was simply pointing out your disagreements among the scriptures.

[zolace]

...and most of your disagreement is between Old and New Testament; teachings of Jesus versus the teaching of Paul.Those are always going to conflict.

So, it is yet to be determined if that is the case here.  If you are honest, you will admit for rooting for them to be actual true conflicts.

[Rigon]

...and most of your disagreement is between Old and New Testament; teachings of Jesus versus the teaching of Paul.Those are always going to conflict.

So, it is yet to be determined if that is the case here.  If you are honest, you will admit for rooting for them to be actual true conflicts.

Don't even think about debating honesty, zolace.  You have already proved yourself to be a lying , who will tell any lie to further your particular agenda... whatever that might be.

[zolace]

Sana8410,We are getting off track, so some examples that come mind may help or maybe not. Mount Sinai where Moses was instructed to not allow the people to come to close lest they die, and Moses face glows from the heat. Aaron's 2 sons consumed by fire for the wrong offering to God. The burning bush being not consumed because it was on Holy ground (an idea how this fire will not harm the saved in the final day).

[BADecker]

...and most of your disagreement is between Old and New Testament; teachings of Jesus versus the teaching of Paul.Those are always going to conflict.

So, it is yet to be determined if that is the case here.  If you are honest, you will admit for rooting for them to be actual true conflicts.

Don't even think about debating honesty, zolace.  You have already proved yourself to be a lying , who will tell any lie to further your particular agenda... whatever that might be.

Now, now. Be gentle with Rigon. After all, St. Paul says that we are not supposed to argue. Consider Rigon like I consider him and many others in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778346.0.

[Rigon]

You never wish to "discuss" anything, you want to PONTIFICATE; to preach your brand of "christianity" that you've created in your  mind.
Even during the odd response from a Christian, you have never agreed with them, and even resorted to challenging their faith; judging them according to your warped beliefs and procaliming they are not "christian" according to YOU.

[zolace]

In the narrative, an angel of Yahweh is described as appearing in the bush,[6] and God is subsequently described as calling out from it to Moses, who had been grazing Jethro's flocks there.[1]When Moses starts to approach, God tells Moses to first take off his sandals, due to the place being holy ground,[7] and Moses hides his face.

I'm not suggesting this and only this describes God, or maybe i'm speculating to much ahead of myself, but its all related to God. I have showed many examples that Eternal torment is not biblical not only in thread but the other one. You have only pointed to symbolic examples that i have addressed. Have you an open mind to any of it, or will you remain hardcore certain in the dogma you grew up with?