OK I'm curious...What is an unlincensed money transfer anyway?

[commandrix]

You might have heard by now that the people facing trial in the Silk Road case are pleading guilty to charges that include unlicensed currency transfers. I'm curious about how currency transfers become "licensed" and whether most Bitcoin transactions could count as "unlicensed."

[Buffer Overflow]

You might have heard by now that the people facing trial in the Silk Road case are pleading guilty to charges that include unlicensed currency transfers. I'm curious about how currency transfers become "licensed" and whether most Bitcoin transactions could count as "unlicensed."

It seems to me authorities like bitcoin to be money in some situations and not in others. When it suits them basically.

[iluvpie60]

it means you do not have any license to handle money. you know how you need a fishing/hunting/driving license? it works the same way with many other things. a license is just a registration or record of something that has been granted to you by someone. it doesnt really have anything to do with anything in some cases, but in this case they want to know who you are and want to make sure you are not scamming people, so they require a license. also there are many fraud/corruption charges and moving money around outside the law is punishable(something the majority of people agree on and that is why it is law).

so next time someone gets their panties up i a wad about something remember that the majority kept it that way, bitcoiners are not a majority thus need a loud voice. thankfulyl the U.S.A is a republic where even the smallest group(1 person) get a voice, althought it might not be as effective as a larger voice.

[odolvlobo]

You might have heard by now that the people facing trial in the Silk Road case are pleading guilty to charges that include unlicensed currency transfers. I'm curious about how currency transfers become "licensed" and whether most Bitcoin transactions could count as "unlicensed."

Nearly all the states in the U.S. require a person to obtain a license before acting as a "money transmitter".

[bg002h]

You need a license for most states to run a business where you transfer money from person to person or place to place. And you must register with the federal government.  Oh, and the state licenses cost money. Lots of money in some cases...one needs >$1M to get started.

[Beliathon]

And you must register with the federal government.  Oh, and the state licenses cost money. Lots of money in some cases...one needs >$1M to get started.

Laws designed to protect the monopoly of the massively profitable banking cartel. Don't fuck with the banksters, cause they own this country.

Until Bitcoin renders them obsolete, anyway.

[keithers]

Im not sure the exact amount but I believe there is an exact number per year, that if you exceed it in transferring funds (as a business), you need to be licensed as a money transmitter. It all stems back to money laundering.

[master-P]

it means you do not have any license to handle money. you know how you need a fishing/hunting/driving license? it works the same way with many other things. a license is just a registration or record of something that has been granted to you by someone. it doesnt really have anything to do with anything in some cases, but in this case they want to know who you are and want to make sure you are not scamming people, so they require a license. also there are many fraud/corruption charges and moving money around outside the law is punishable(something the majority of people agree on and that is why it is law).

so next time someone gets their panties up i a wad about something remember that the majority kept it that way, bitcoiners are not a majority thus need a loud voice. thankfulyl the U.S.A is a republic where even the smallest group(1 person) get a voice, althought it might not be as effective as a larger voice.

It is not so much "handling" money but is more sending money on behalf of other people. For example you do not need any kind of license to have $100,000 in cash in your home or business. However if you were to take some amount of money from a customer and agree to give that money to someone else then you would likely be considered a money transmitter.

[Altminer79]

You might have heard by now that the people facing trial in the Silk Road case are pleading guilty to charges that include unlicensed currency transfers. I'm curious about how currency transfers become "licensed" and whether most Bitcoin transactions could count as "unlicensed."

Just like you can't drive without having a driving license,you aren't allowed to transact with people's money without having certain authority from your nation/state.

[commandrix]

Thanks for clarifying. Slight follow-up question, if in the future I decide to provide escrow services (Disclaimer: I have no plans to do so), does that make me a money transmitter?

[odolvlobo]

Thanks for clarifying. Slight follow-up question, if in the future I decide to provide escrow services (Disclaimer: I have no plans to do so), does that make me a money transmitter?

It probably does, but the laws vary depending on where you and your customers are. You need to look them up.

For example, in California: http://www.dbo.ca.gov/Licensees/money_transmitters/

[Mightycoin]

When you transfer money without paying a cut to the government it mean's unlicensed

[dankkk]

Thanks for clarifying. Slight follow-up question, if in the future I decide to provide escrow services (Disclaimer: I have no plans to do so), does that make me a money transmitter?

It probably does, but the laws vary depending on where you and your customers are. You need to look them up.

For example, in California: http://www.dbo.ca.gov/Licensees/money_transmitters/

I would disagree unless fiat is involved. In order to potentially be a money transmitter you need to either send or receive money (cash fiat).

If you are only acting as escrow for bitcoin and goods/services then you would not be involving money in any way.

[odolvlobo]

Thanks for clarifying. Slight follow-up question, if in the future I decide to provide escrow services (Disclaimer: I have no plans to do so), does that make me a money transmitter?

It probably does, but the laws vary depending on where you and your customers are. You need to look them up.
For example, in California: http://www.dbo.ca.gov/Licensees/money_transmitters/

I would disagree unless fiat is involved. In order to potentially be a money transmitter you need to either send or receive money (cash fiat).
If you are only acting as escrow for bitcoin and goods/services then you would not be involving money in any way.

I don't think your argument holds in California,

(m) "Monetary value" means a medium of exchange, whether or not redeemable in money.
(s) "Receiving money for transmission" or "money received for transmission" means receiving money or monetary value ...

or under U.S. federal law,

But U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff rejected that argument, saying bitcoins "clearly qualifies as 'money' or 'funds,'" under dictionary definitions, a position supported by legislative history in interpreting the law.