Monero Economy Workgroup - The MEW Thread

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. What can be voted for?
A. Fundamentals, Priorities, Executives, Rules, Funds.

• Voting can be used to measure the opinion on XMR holders in whatever matters, if measuring the opinion is needed.
• Voting can be used to make priorities how the XMR economy should proceed in the way of development, services, infrastructure etc.
• Executives that fulfill the tasks assigned to them by the MEW, and handle practical matters, are appointed and dismissed by voting.
• Rules may be changed and new ones added by voting.
• The use of MEW common funds is decided by voting.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Do I bind myself to something when joining MEW?
A. No. We do have ideas of having deeper layers of cooperation between members, but they will be voluntary. Even now, some members are in a partnership to develop some XMR stuff. MEW is a power platform to encourage joint initiatives, but using the platform is not much binding.

When you enter, you must pay the membership fees, but you even get back the unspent part if you decide to leave.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Is it possible to become an anonymous member?
A. This is an anonymous coin, and it is very important that the coin holders can become members and vote anonymously if they so wish. Otherwise we miss the big part of holders in the voting phase, and the results will come out biased to only the non-anonymous part of the holders, the visible community.

How to practically accomplish even the voting, much less other interaction in the group with anonymous members, awaits solutions.

Pseudonymous but established accounts pose no issues.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Shouldnt the devs decide the priorities? I mean they are the ones who must donate their time to implement features.
A. The core team retains complete control with how to develop the coin, Monero (XMR). The role of MEW is to give them valuable information on the community's wishes, but MEW cannot force even its own members to do anything, much less the devs who - as a collective - are not even members. In a similar way, MEW may issue suggestions to whomever, but they are not bound to follow the suggestions, and MEW will employ great care to not meddle in others' affairs, and also expect nobody to tell MEW how it should make use of its XMR privacy coin.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Is the MEW focused on funding development projects or does it plan to fund non-technical startups involving XMR in some way?
A. 50% of membership fees are given to the core team immediately and they may spend it on the core development at their discretion. The remaining 50% is decided by the vote. The money involved is so small that it is not realistic that the MEW as a group would fund anything except very basic level not-for-profit tasks (websites, marketing materials...). It is up to the members what kind of startups they like to start, technical or service/community-oriented.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. What kind of business opportunities there are/mostly needed?
A. If you were an aspiring entrepreneur, the idea of selling XMR for fiat offline, OTC, for physical cash or bank transfer, to your friends and their parents, in 1000+ XMR chunks, at 20% markup, would be the way to go to distribute the coins to strong hands, aid the price, and make good money in the process. This can be started with no investment at all, even the same day.

MEW will arrange group chats for those wishing to make connections and start developing joint ventures.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Is MEW controlling the members' XMR funds?
A. No.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. To what extent will the MEW's actions be applicable to other (mostly CN) coins?
A. MEW is an Economic Workgroup, so it is a way to organize flesh around the bones of a currency. Other coins may adopt similar or different models to make cohesion in their community but in general the MEW actions don't matter to them.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. MEW is a stupid name
A. Several days of discussion have been spent proposing another name. with no convincing argument.
Plus MEW is also the name of the most powerful Pokemon ever. He has the power of all the pokemon and is selfless enough to have sacrificed himself for a greater cause (but was saved at the last moment). This is also a very rare, expensive card; 1 MEW=1BTC.
With such background, no way we use another name

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Q. Where can I find more information?
A. This thread is the only publicly available official source for now, although we are considering using the Official Monero forum for most of the future activities.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

Sent 100 XMR from Polo.
Payment ID: 3e2b5d1c486dbfd8232f615b804f1ed77c4f5d6500d1eabf8754292c403308e1

Sent another 110 XMR, putting my total at 210.
Payment ID: 3d2823bf409f6b550bdb5d42511de0da4a1fc0950c6a71ca94be4cc12af93c05
Q

You are the very first person to upgrade your number of votes. Congratulations!

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

1. The official documents
MEW has the following documents:
- Articles of Association (AA)
- Initial Decisions with Nominations (ID)
- membership list with ranks and votes (Votelist)

• Article of association
• Initial Decisions
• Member list

OP revamped and updated with these links, as well as the FAQ.

Can the list of MEW joiners ( and irc access) please be updated before such vote?

Done.

[Monero Economy Workgroup]

In order to encourage joining, MEW had decided to dispense early members of any handling fees and to accept subscriptions starting from 10 XMR.
The early access period will stop in exactly 1 week, on the 16th of October at 23h59 UTC. Starting from the 17th, the minimum number of votes will be 50 XMR and the one-time handling fees will be 10 XMR, all paid at the same address
Example 1: you decide to join MEW and to get 50 votes. You pay 60 XMR (50 votes at 1 XMR per vote + 10 XMR for handling).
Example 2: you decide to join MEW and to get 500 votes. You pay 510 XMR (500 votes at 1 XMR per vote + 10 XMR for handling). You later decide to upgrade to 700 votes. You pay 200 XMR (200 more votes, no handling fee).

MEW initial decisions
Handling fees

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)
• The fees are donations paid directly to the administrative clerk (ME or his deputy) and do not go to the GF.

For easier handling, the fees are paid at the same address as the registration - the administrative clerk will then proceed with separation of funds.

[smooth]

In order to encourage joining, MEW had decided to dispense early members of any handling fees and to accept subscriptions starting from 10 XMR.
The early access period will stop in exactly 1 week, on the 16th of October at 23h59 UTC. Starting from the 17th, the minimum number of votes will be 50 XMR and the one-time handling fees will be 10 XMR, all paid at the same address

MEW initial decisions
Handling fees

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)
• The fees are donations paid directly to the administrative clerk (ME or his deputy) and do not go to the GF.

For easier handling, the fees are paid at the same address as the registration - the administrative clerk will then proceed with separation of funds.

Did I understand that correctly -- 10 XMR fee to cast a vote?

That is really excessive especially for smaller members.

[nioc]

In order to encourage joining, MEW had decided to dispense early members of any handling fees and to accept subscriptions starting from 10 XMR.
The early access period will stop in exactly 1 week, on the 16th of October at 23h59 UTC. Starting from the 17th, the minimum number of votes will be 50 XMR and the one-time handling fees will be 10 XMR, all paid at the same address

MEW initial decisions
Handling fees

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)
• The fees are donations paid directly to the administrative clerk (ME or his deputy) and do not go to the GF.

For easier handling, the fees are paid at the same address as the registration - the administrative clerk will then proceed with separation of funds.

Did I understand that correctly -- 10 XMR fee to cast a vote?

That is really excessive especially for smaller members.

If so please refund my membership.

Do you really want to discourage voting and participation?  How are you going to get a community consensus without the community?

[rpietila]

In order to encourage joining, MEW had decided to dispense early members of any handling fees and to accept subscriptions starting from 10 XMR.
The early access period will stop in exactly 1 week, on the 16th of October at 23h59 UTC. Starting from the 17th, the minimum number of votes will be 50 XMR and the one-time handling fees will be 10 XMR, all paid at the same address

MEW initial decisions
Handling fees

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)
• The fees are donations paid directly to the administrative clerk (ME or his deputy) and do not go to the GF.

For easier handling, the fees are paid at the same address as the registration - the administrative clerk will then proceed with separation of funds.

Did I understand that correctly -- 10 XMR fee to cast a vote?

That is really excessive especially for smaller members.

Probably not, please read further  

The MEW is an economic organization, not a political one. That means there is no big kitty to make the big holders support the hobby-participation of the smaller ones. Or even if there were, we would not consider it a right thing to do.

Therefore, the Initial Decisions, made by the then 18 members, accepted as a condition to join MEW when it was founded, provided a way to handle the financial and member registry administration costs. The principle that the costs would be borne by the members according to the usage of the administrative services. We do not believe that this would lead to diminished usage (no incentive) but we do believe that it is a fair way to collect money to pay for the costs.

People would argue why is the ME not working for free, after all this is a voluntary project and everyone else (yes, including me and JE, and the core devs on their side) is working for free. This is because it takes a very special person to be the ME (less people to choose from), yet the tasks he must do are mostly very menial, and involve near 24/7 checking of accounts, incoming mail, bookkeeping etc. that nobody in the real world does for free. I can happily serve in my current position for free, but David's work I would not do no matter how much you paid Having a stream of fees makes it possible to outsource some of this job to other members who get some trickle of an income then.

Back to the MEW initiation. In the beginning, the minimum to join was 50 XMR, about $90. Although it is blasphemy to talk on dollar terms, this was considered to be the level of involvement we would like the members to have to really get into the MEW after joining, making their voice heard and contributing to the projects. There was a resolution to take this price down as soon as possible, to about $30-$50, to increase the legitimacy of the voting. It is a problem if the vote cutoff is so high that it excludes everyone except the biggest owners, and we were very aware of it.

Then it was decided to be lowered to 10 XMR, and simultaneously XMR crashed so that the minimum was only $8. This is good for legitimacy (everybody can get in), but bad for organization (many people get in, some with lesser involvement, knowledge, and determination to support the building of the MEW, which is very much going on). Not only this, but David had not announced the fee schedule for administrative actions, resulting in that all members so far, and for 7 more days, are getting in for free, not paying anything except for the votes themselves.

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)

David has so far announced only the Processing of a new member request -fee, that it is 10 XMR (about $8, and will be revised so that it follows the fiat value more closely than the XMR value). This is hardly excessive; where I live, a loan handling fee is $260. It is more of the principle.

The following items are changes in the registry and require small amount of time and concentration. I hope that the fee for them will be less.

Casting a vote is listed just to show that nothing is holy. It is unlikely that casting a vote will cost anything. The votes are bought "per vote" basis, and charging for voting with a "per member" basis is unfair towards small vote holders. Charging by "per vote" is also not going to happen - we decided that we do not do it, and instead the votes carry a yearly fee and the votepower may thus be exercised in every voting without paying separately.

When resignation, taking care that the refund happens according to rules, accesses to communication channels are closed etc. takes some time. The fee may obviously not be higher than the refundable amount in any case.

I am very interested in hearing how cheap David is ready to sell his time. Even my Estonian car mechanic charged 39€/hour (46 XMR). Hopefully David's time is more valuable - but even if not, please no not bother him with the official matters too much, he is important for the project, for the core team, for the MEW, for Malla and for what not

This is to shed some light to the issue that surfaced out of the woods for many.

[smooth]

David has so far announced only the Processing of a new member request -fee, that it is 10 XMR (about $8, and will be revised so that it follows the fiat value more closely than the XMR value). This is hardly excessive; where I live, a loan handling fee is $260. It is more of the principle.

The following items are changes in the registry and require small amount of time and concentration. I hope that the fee for them will be less.

Casting a vote is listed just to show that nothing is holy. It is unlikely that casting a vote will cost anything. The votes are bought "per vote" basis, and charging for voting with a "per member" basis is unfair towards small vote holders. Charging by "per vote" is also not going to happen - we decided that we do not do it, and instead the votes carry a yearly fee and the votepower may thus be exercised in every voting without paying separately.

Okay, that sounds reasonable then. I certainly see no problem with a one-time registration fee, especially since people have the chance to join now and avoid it!

[equipoise]

10 XMR sent. Paiment ID: 6e9c0f8135afcff7d5790b13b5e2f3452d22da400e0cef3c4a545681c64b981b
irc: equipoise

[nioc]

In order to encourage joining, MEW had decided to dispense early members of any handling fees and to accept subscriptions starting from 10 XMR.
The early access period will stop in exactly 1 week, on the 16th of October at 23h59 UTC. Starting from the 17th, the minimum number of votes will be 50 XMR and the one-time handling fees will be 10 XMR, all paid at the same address

MEW initial decisions
Handling fees

• Processing a new member request
• Buying more votes for an existing member
• Change in identity information
• Change in how a member's votepower is proxied
• Casting a vote
• Refunding of votes to a member in downgrade or resignation
• Time-based charge for fulfilling special requests (applies to non-members as well)
• The fees are donations paid directly to the administrative clerk (ME or his deputy) and do not go to the GF.

For easier handling, the fees are paid at the same address as the registration - the administrative clerk will then proceed with separation of funds.

Did I understand that correctly -- 10 XMR fee to cast a vote?

That is really excessive especially for smaller members.

Probably not, please read further  

The MEW is an economic organization, not a political one. That means there is no big kitty to make the big holders support the hobby-participation of the smaller ones. Or even if there were, we would not consider it a right thing to do.

May I suggest that the probably be changed to never.

I don't consider being able to freely vote as being equal to big holders supporting the "hobby-participation" of the smaller ones.

One man's hobby is another man's life.

[David Latapie]

I am very interested in hearing how cheap David is ready to sell his time. Even my Estonian car mechanic charged 39€/hour (46 XMR). Hopefully David's time is more valuable - but even if not, please no not bother him with the official matters too much, he is important for the project, for the core team, for the MEW, for Malla and for what not

I'm selling my time way too cheap, but I do it because I want Monero to succeed - and at my current price it is mostly symbolic - I only spend 10 minutes per account under the very best circumstances and this is not even considering the future handlings that I will have to take care of for probably months on.

I plan to only lower the handling when XMR will go way up compared to fiat. I might also consider charging a percentage - this is completely unrelated to the amount of work (handling a 50 XMR account is usually not different from handling a 1000 XMR account) but this would be a way for the (probably) wealthier person to "help" the less fortunate ones to still be able to join (yes, this is the abominable "redistribution" - richs paying for the poors - scheme that people hate, so remember, I'm just considering it). If something was to be changed, there would be a grace period anyway.

The "early access soon over" post has been updated with some examples.