[Resolved] Tradehill.

[fgmnp]

 UPDATE: Resolved. Please ignore this thread.

Only after sh** hits the fan, after a month of requests, does Jered periodically come out of the woods, pays one or two guys, and disappears.

This is the latest unpaid:

[EDIT: Mean this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77232.msg858244#msg858244 ]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75291.msg861796#msg861796

Here's more:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75291.0;all


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75300.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75708.0

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[Stephen Gornick]

Step #15

Decide which legal entity this claim is against?  Jered or Tradehill?

 - http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1525974&p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE




(Step 1 was talk to a lawyer, by the way.  They'll know the correct steps to follow.)

[R-]

Here's is good on his word.

He is resolving cases one at a time in a professional fashion.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76001.0

[DILLIGAF]

"I will mail your check out today". - actually happened 2 months later, after many reminders, and only when a forum post happened.

Ah the "checks in the mail" yet another classic recycled for bitcoin.

[Tomatocage]

You guys need to relax already.  Jered seems like he's doing the best to pay people back as best he can.  Be thankful that he's not pulling a Chris Mallick on you.

[John (John K.)]

You guys need to relax already.  Jered seems like he's doing the best to pay people back as best he can.  Be thankful that he's not pulling a Chris Mallick on you.

Or another shakaru 

[Maged]

Do you guys have any idea of the scale TradeHill was running at? They had at least several hundred thousand accounts, based on the referral codes I've seen. Now, imagine having to lay off your entire staff that was already overworked with the daily running of the business, and then having handle all of the payouts by yourself.

It could seriously take all year.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Do you guys have any idea of the scale TradeHill was running at? They had at least several hundred thousand accounts, based on the referral codes I've seen. Now, imagine having to lay off your entire staff that was already overworked with the daily running of the business, and then having handle all of the payouts by yourself.

It could seriously take all year.

Seconded.

Anyone who thinks a major exchange's laundry is done as easily as your own has never run a business before.

I also wonder if there are people here who somehow than that Jered operated Tradehill in his own name out of his garage or something. He technically could just file TRADEHILL for bankruptcy and be done with it.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Sorry man. Until the last person gets their money/btc, he's a scammer.

If she floats, she's a witch.

[R-]

Sorry man. Until the last person gets their money/btc, he's a scammer.

If she floats, she's a witch.

Haha +1 to that brother. I am glad I don't deal with other peoples money on a regular basis. Sheesh!

[caveden]

lose your wallet, you're a scammer.
get scammed by dwolla? you must be a scammer
bank freezes your account... d'oh now you're a scammer.
dog eats your backups... oh shit you must be a scammer.

+1

I would only call scammer someone that deliberately tries to defraud someone else. Tradehill got screwed by Dwolla and the state/banks. He didn't defraud anyone.
He has done a good service to the bitcoin community AFAIK. The simple fact that he's trying to honor his debts also show he's an honest person.
I understand it's not nice at all to have your money stuck somewhere, but compared to what Jared lost, this "time lost" of yours is not that significant, IMHO.

[Bitsinmyhead]

Don't know much about this situation, but I just hope it does not end up like the shakaru situation.
If you are not aware of that it, he pretty much stole $20000, but because he promised to pay it all back, everyone thought he was such a good guy and no way he could be a scammer. By paying back 40BTC he was able to stay around and scam people out of several 100BTC more. Always coming up with amazing excuses...

[Matthew N. Wright]

User's funds in exchanges are not supposed to vanish just  because an exchange's own financial situation changes.

You're selling lemonade. You take the customer's money, and a robber runs by and takes your lemonade and the customer's money. You have no money and no product so you have to shut down. The police know who the robber's friends are, but they say that they don't want to take responsibility. The lemonade stand is a victim of theft.

Who should pay?


If you said "the robber", you're right! And that's why Tradehill is going to court.

If you said "that dirty mother fucking lowlife lemonade stand owner" then you should stop breathing now.

[Matthew N. Wright]

If you said "that dirty mother fucking lowlife lemonade stand owner" then you should stop breathing now.

Did you see this:

"The only case where I can imagine something like the above logic applying is if the funds were stolen... "

I was replying to the bankruptcy argument above.

Sure! I should have clarified that I wasn't really directing it at you, but more at people in general for jumping into the lynch mob.

If people really want someone to lynch, they need to lynch their friends and family for making mtGox so big and making it a single point of failure in the bitcoin economy.

[jammie]

I know for a fact he payed people who did not mailed here.
En i can tell u he payed me , let me say that was more then 5 k.
However ,that he dont come here `more often  to see what is going on I dont understand.
I my self was pretty much stressed of not getting my money.
But in the end it came.   

Jammie

[Raoul Duke]

User's funds in exchanges are not supposed to vanish just  because an exchange's own financial situation changes.

You're selling lemonade. You take the customer's money, and a robber runs by and takes your lemonade and the customer's money. You have no money and no product so you have to shut down. The police know who the robber's friends are, but they say that they don't want to take responsibility. The lemonade stand is a victim of theft.

Who should pay?


If you said "the robber", you're right! And that's why Tradehill is going to court.

If you said "that dirty mother fucking lowlife lemonade stand owner" then you should stop breathing now.

If things happened just like you described, in any civilized country you'd be responsible for serving the customer his lemonade.
The theft would be a case between you and the robber and your customer would have nothing to do with it.

Jut like TradeHill will have to settle things between them and their customers and pursue Dwolla on their own terms. Or are you expecting TH's customers to sue Dwolla on TH's behalf?
If you do, you're seeing the picture upside down.

I agree that people are probably jumping the gun too fast. But should they just let it go and make Jered feel like he doesn't owe them anything? Should they wait 10 years, until TH resolves the matter with Dwolla?

[Matthew N. Wright]

If you said "the robber", you're right! And that's why Tradehill is going to court.

Jut like TradeHill will have to settle things between them and their customers and pursue Dwolla on their own terms. Or are you expecting TH's customers to sue Dwolla on TH's behalf?

 


I'm expecting Tradehill to sue Dwolla, Dwolla to pay Tradehill, Tradehill to take care of thier debt to their customers, their customers to understand that a contract with an uninsured, unlicensed financial business has these risks.

Calling Jered a scammer is obviously idiotic. You could call him a bad businessman perhaps.

[niko]

While generally I may be emphatic towards people who had their money gone missing for one reason or the other, I can't feel for the obviously ignorant, angry folks who throw around serious accusations without any regard to known facts.

Calling someone a scammer implies an intention and planning to scam people. It doesn't seem like there is any of that in case of Tradehill. You can bitch about them being unresponsive, sloppy, whatever, but you have to take into account the fact that most of people did get their money back. Also, the fact that Tradehill have been a victim of a scam. You can even take legal action if you think that's reasonable. But calling Jered a scammer is out of touch with reality.  I understand you are angry that your money is gone, but try and be realistic and act accordingly.

[Gareth Nelson]

I feel the need to step up here as Jered is someone I hold a great deal of respect for and feel he's being extremely unfairly criticised here.

Due to the close partnership that existed between BitInstant and TradeHill, I know a great deal about what happened over there and have to say that Jered is one of the hardest working and honest people I have ever met. I am aware that he is having to manually deal with all requests that come in from multiple users and is doing this solely by himself while also suffering all the blame for TradeHill's business failure as the public face.

Because TradeHill was at its peak the second largest exchange around, it's only to be expected that a LOT of users will be wanting their funds back, and that might make the process slow but there is absolutely no evidence of malice anywhere.

There ARE real scammers in this community sadly, Jered is not one of them - he's one man who's got a lot of weight on his shoulders and is struggling. At no point has there been even a single sign of malice.


One thing I personally intend to do now is to talk to Jered about a more efficient way of handling this, rather than dealing with ad-hoc requests, and the most efficient way to handle things is to sort accounts by balance and proactively contact users. While lawsuits and threats of lawsuits may make you feel better or may possibly get you pushed to the top of the queue, they won't solve the core issue that there's quite simply a huge pile of people needing their funds.

[Raoul Duke]

If you said "the robber", you're right! And that's why Tradehill is going to court.

Jut like TradeHill will have to settle things between them and their customers and pursue Dwolla on their own terms. Or are you expecting TH's customers to sue Dwolla on TH's behalf?

 


I'm expecting Tradehill to sue Dwolla, Dwolla to pay Tradehill, Tradehill to take care of thier debt to their customers, their customers to understand that a contract with an uninsured, unlicensed financial business has these risks.

Calling Jered a scammer is obviously idiotic. You could call him a bad businessman perhaps.

Don't shout!

Interesting how you left the most important question unanswered...

Should TH's customers wait until the whole court case with Dwolla is resolved , even if it takes 10 years ?