Apple pay will make bitcoin (even more) useless. Let's deal with it.

[SomethingElse]

Let's wait and see the real world application.
Apple will certainly publish some numbers in terms of transactions volume in a few months.

The interesting thing is that the picture uses the term "possible" when it comes to bitcoin...
From possible 7 billions to the 60k daily transaction...that is one hell of  gap that needs to be filled.

I own a couple bitcoin and if a possible 6 billion use a few possible bitcoin purchases a day then the price of bitcoin will possible sky rocket.  I will be a possible millionaire!  

So in fiction I am a millionaire from bitcoin, and in reality I have an iphone and will very likely use it to make a purchase in the next 6 months, and if that goes well, maybe many more after. 

[SomethingElse]

you don't get the point. I am not talking of present day situation. I am talking of near future, when other companies (Samsung, LG, One Plus et cetera) will make same agreements with merchant companies to make their smartphones equally useful for immediate payments (they already are, having nfc, but since they have no agreements with companies and smartphones are considered as payments without card, fees are higher).  Then, smartphones are no more an elite thing for rich people. I bought my galaxy s3 for 130 euro on eBay. And there are much cheaper smartphones out there. You could buy a good used smartphone for less than 50 euro.
So we must imagine that in the next future almost everyone will have a smartphone with nfc and ability to pay on the go. And everywhere. Since what is actually limited to only USA will be widespread all over the world. In one year, 2 years I don't know. But it's rather sure.
So please stop saying that Apple is only for rich people and Apple pay actually is only in USA. This is last time I repeat this. Try to learn to read properly before using bitcoin.

Apple set the standard for using a mouse.  Yes, they were around before Apple, but after Apple they were standard.  The same for usb, ipods, the same for smart phones, and many more things.  And now I am guessing Apple pay will be the new standard.  It will surely be rolled out across the world.  Apple just needs to make deals with the major banks and creditors in those countries.  It got the three major credit card companies in the US and the four big banks.  That took some huge backroom negotiations.  It isn't like Apple could do that in every country once, but we know it is making a list of countries and regions to approach next. 

[gtraah]

This makes your argument about 6 nations also invalid.
If you assume bitcoin grows you would have to assume m-pesa also grows.

Fact is that while in 4 years bitcoin managed to get 50m transaction in the blockchain , Mpesa has close to that number in users.

If you use a bank to buy bitcoin , then the whole debate about sending money via bitcoin is flawed.
Because using a bank to acquire bitcoin , then sending bitcoins and making the other person use a bank to change those bitcoins for it's needs it's a mess that can be avoided with direct transfer.
Let's not talk about the fees , the spread in btc price that can make you lose more money than the damn wire transfer.

Bitcoin is not the best in this currently and blinkered zealots are not doing any good.

There are so many obstacles for bitcoin to become a real solution for money transfer and yet in the last two years the improvments are close to 0.
Sorry but that is reality.

About Mpesa growing yes! but your argument still fails because Mpesa is still bound by federal bank and its limits. BTC is not. BTC potential is much greater.

And you totally missed all my points, If you read my first post I said in a world where most people accept BTC,  meaning once you receive the BTC you do not need to change it back into $... And you said you need to make an account for BTC? No you don't, all you need to do is simply download a wallet and give the sender your wallet address, done! you can now spend BTC. Literally within 15 minutes of not having anything to do with bitcoin, you can install an app and receive btc and start spending it anywhere there is internet.

And in regards to the on and off ramp from Fiat, no you don't need a bank account, you just need to be able to go to your local bank to deposit money into the BTC Exchanges account, more hassle that way but. Think of it like swapping $ for BTC... just like swapping gold for $ OR you can Mine it... You cannot mine Mpesa there is only one way to get it, bank or cash transfer.

And you talk about the spread what about the spread with mpesa? The actual -=currency exchange spread=- on top of the transfer fees with mpesa..  

You are comparing an -=Independent Bitcoin=- to a simple payment portal which is tied to the federal reserve...The reason right now people think BTC is flawed is because we are trying to use it like a payment portal swapping in and out BTC > $ > BTC...  Only an idiot would waste money like that I certainly do not like throwing money away. As I said more than once, in future when many people accept BTC and products are cheaper to buy using BTC and it is also cheap to swap $ > BTC.. this is when you will see BTC shine. This is all possible but because of everyone trying to make a piece of the pie this is the reason it is not worth it right now. It may be worth to buy and hold(deflation) and also spend when there are good specials or if you want to send large amounts of money to family or freinds overseas, but I wouldn't buy BTC to simply buy a coffee that's ridiculous, at least now it is anyway. There has already been promotions for sales with BTC, if BTC takes off further there will be plenty more of that also.

Anyways, I have said my point I will not be debating any further as I have better things to do.. As I said, If most people used BTC then you would not need to transfer it back into $, the only time $ will ever meet BTC is when you want to buy BTC to use but you would do this in lump sum so you would not need to do it for every transaction. Simply put! The future potential seems much greater for bitcoin, if the world sees it for what it is and can do and then embraces it! You will see what happens .

Curious though, if you do not believe in BTC why do you like roaming a BTC forum, seems like everything you say about it is negative.  

[Beliathon]

You don't get the point. I am not talking of present day situation.

Actually, I do get it, and neither am I.

[niothor]

And you totally missed all my points, If you read my first post I said in a world where most people accept BTC,  meaning once you receive the BTC you do not need to change it back into $... And you said you need to make an account for BTC? No you don't, all you need to do is simply download a wallet and give the sender your wallet address, done! and you can now spend BTC. Literally within 15 minutes of not having anything to do with bitcoin, you can install and app and receive btc and start spending it anywhere there is internet.

Flawed logic , you can't receive bitcoins out of the blue , you have to pay for them. Meaning that there is a process far longer than 15 minutes involved.
Also what about a world where everybody uses the same bank so bank transfers are instant?

Curious though, if you do not believe in BTC why do you like roaming a BTC forum, seems like everything you say about it is negative.  

Again you're wrong.
I am tired of people saying bitcoin is the solution for everything , it is safer , it is faster it is bla bla bla but no , they are lead by dreams without seeing the actual stage bitcoin is right now.

While I'm actually bullish on btc I can't stop laughing at people claiming that there are no alternatives and that bitcoin is the best always.
You also use the argument of fees without thinking about progress in the other payments systems also.

How expensive was to make a phone call 10 years ago... how expensive is now?
Why shouldn't that happen to phone payments also?
Disregarding the improvements of other payments solutions and is a bad idea  when evaluating bitcoin.


ps,
Stop with that ,"if you don't share our opinion you're against us"  communist way of thinking.

[gtraah]

Again you're wrong.
I am tired of people saying bitcoin is the solution for everything , it is safer , it is faster it is bla bla bla but no , they are lead by dreams without seeing the actual stage bitcoin is right now.

While I'm actually bullish on btc I can't stop laughing at people claiming that there are no alternatives and that bitcoin is the best always.
You also use the argument of fees without thinking about progress in the other payments systems also.

How expensive was to make a phone call 10 years ago... how expensive is now?
Why shouldn't that happen to phone payments also?
Disregarding the improvements of other payments solutions and is a bad idea  when evaluating bitcoin.


ps,
Stop with that ,"if you don't share our opinion you're against us"  communist way of thinking.

1st I didn't say it was the only solution, in fact right now and the way BTC is , it is far from the best solution for all, it needs to grow up a hell of alot!! Your obviously only seeing what you want to see, In my scenario you said I can use Mpesa to transfer from Sydney to Berlin instantly which was not right, as out of the 6 countries Germany was not one that i can use mpesa to send too from Aus. This is how this started. Anyways my opinion -- BTC even at the moment with its the flaws has more features and services than Mpesa has and is more transferable and reachable worldwide.  But yes at this present time for many people it is hard to come in and out of BTC from $ , but this is not my point my point is My scenario lol

And yes Its obvious that you need to buy it, just like buying gold ... But you can also mine it if your willing. If you want ANY currency that is worth something in the world you have to buy it you cant just clap your hands and there you have it, the only problem we have at the moment is people wanting a piece of the cut when doing the exchange to profit their business .

Lastly, about your same bank claim, actually you might find this interesting -- me and my wife are with the same bank, but separate accounts. Guess what? It is not instant :O YEP that's true... -=Not instant=-, takes 1 business day. UNLESS we are Joint account holders , then any account you open under the account holders is instant to transfer between them.  And one last thing, Do you know how hard it is to open a bank account in most western countries? Lets just say I did not have a bank account but I wanted USD not BTC, I am talking about the dollar, now someone from Berlin wanted to give me money, did you know its actually a lot harder and a longer process to accept USD than it is to accept BTC.

PS: I do not disagree with you, BTC still needs a lot of work and yes its not the best solution for all, I also don't believe that BTC will stop wars and I do not believe in this utopia of freedom that some people think BTC will achieve. I just simply believe it is a simple powerful protocol with tonnes of potential.. And I really hope the core devs dont mess this up and progress in the right direction with more transparency of future goals etc etc.

[niothor]

Lastly, about your same bank claim, actually you might find this interesting -- me and my wife are with the same bank, but separate accounts. Guess what? It is not instant :O YEP that's true... -=Not instant=-, takes 1 business day. UNLESS we are Joint account holders , then any account you open under the account holders is instant to transfer between them.  And one last thing, Do you know how hard it is to open a bank account in most western countries? Lets just say I did not have a bank account but I wanted USD not BTC, I am talking about the dollar, now someone from Berlin wanted to give me money, did you know its actually a lot harder and a longer process to accept USD than it is to accept BTC.

Change your bank.Seriously. I live in the worst country in EU and still transactions between accounts on the same bank are instant.
There are 3 banks with which I tested this Erste Bank , BT and ING.

And about how hard it is to open... want to bet that I will open a usd or euro  account on any bank here in less than 15 minutes?

[gtraah]

Change your bank.Seriously. I live in the worst country in EU and still transactions between accounts on the same bank are instant.
There are 3 banks with which I tested this Erste Bank , BT and ING.

And about how hard it is to open... want to bet that I will open a usd or euro  account on any bank here in less than 15 minutes?

Your telling me you can open a bank account without proper ID in 15 minutes and you can transfer money to this bank account and also withdraw from this bank account? even if you can to this in 1 business day that's impressive but I Doubt it and if its all so easy, then whats all this talk about the Un-banked? Why don't they all just open an account in 15 minutes.

With BTC you dont need ID because ID doesn't matter , its trustless. I can download an app, accept btc from china and then send the same btc to indonesia all within 15minutes... try doing that with a bank lol

And I am with one of the Big 4 Banks of Australia. The instant transfer doesn't matter in my case as everyone already accepts it will take 1 day. I am talking about International money transfers. where it is not possible to be with the same bank

[niothor]

Change your bank.Seriously. I live in the worst country in EU and still transactions between accounts on the same bank are instant.
There are 3 banks with which I tested this Erste Bank , BT and ING.

And about how hard it is to open... want to bet that I will open a usd or euro  account on any bank here in less than 15 minutes?

Your telling me you can open a bank account without proper ID in 15 minutes and you can transfer money to this bank account and also withdraw from this bank account? Doubt it.... And if this is possible,  Then whats all this talk about the Un-banked? Why don't they all just open an account in 15 minutes.

With BTC you dont need ID because ID doesn't matter , its trustless. I can download an app, accept btc from china and then send the same btc to indonesia all within 15minutes... try doing that with a bank lol

And I am with one of the Big 4 Banks of Australia. The instant transfer doesn't matter in my case as everyone already accepts it will take 1 day. I am talking about International money transfers. where it is not possible to have the same bank account.

I received some money back from a friend while I was in town. I had quite a few things to do , and the sum was pretty big so I entered the first bank I opened an account then went to the cashier and deposited the 1500 euros instead of risking to lose or getting robbed.

It was around 15 minutes in all.

About the talk , it's probably most bank haters.
Reminds me how happy those that criticized visa were when they were able to get their money back from the failures such as hashfast.Those that payed with bitcoin....ended up in tears.

And no , you can't send those coins in 15 minutes either. I probably was the unluckiest guy , trying to do a localbitcoin transactions just when one of the infamous >30 minute blocks happened. But shit can happen. Also most merchants use at least 3 confirmations.

The problem with your reasoning is that you claim everybody will be able to use btc directly in the coming years with no more banks needed to transfer the btc into cash but for once don't think that international transfers might be cut down to hours or even minutes.

So you take into account improvements only on one side.

Bitcoin has a lot of advantages but in it's current state has a lot of cons too.
And if you start thinking that the - will go away in time , probably this will happen to other services as well.


PS.
Check threads about paypal from two years ago and the new ones.
You will see how things have changed. If applepay will use bitcoin you're going to be a fan too .

[desired_username]

Reminds me how happy those that criticized visa were when they were able to get their money back

That's only insurance which can be provided for bitcoin. It's the biggest obstacle front of wider adoption in my opinion.

I'm ok with using btc without it, but the average person needs it badly.

[culexevilman]

Bitcoin is freedom.

[btcxyzzz]

OP is just a stupid troll, but I just can't resist to say something like "fuck you, you stupid sheeple, you don't get Bitcoin REVOLUTION at all".

[btcxyzzz]

"And please don't repeat the old Bullshits of government, of new world order, Nsa watching us. These are cliche. There is no secret bank organization ruling the world. Banks are over there to make their profit offering services as every fucking company. Normal people are not even interested in hiding money, since they have nothing to Hyde. So should we appeal to criminals?"

Oh no. OP deserves slow and painful death. Cattle. He is good for meat can.

[Impros88]

"And please don't repeat the old Bullshits of government, of new world order, Nsa watching us. These are cliche. There is no secret bank organization ruling the world. Banks are over there to make their profit offering services as every fucking company. Normal people are not even interested in hiding money, since they have nothing to Hyde. So should we appeal to criminals?"

Oh no. OP deserves slow and painful death. Cattle. He is good for meat can.

do you know why you get angry? because you know that what I say is true. Only losers and idiots offend people by Internet so I won't do that.
You get angry because I am saying the truth. Bitcoin could fail really quick for many many reasons, you would see your money lost and you cannot accept it.
Oh yes I know your logic... it is like a religion... you have to believe...you have to have Faith, otherwise you are an enemy. This is worse than Muslim integralism.
I am. not a troll, I really fear that bitcoin will fail. I cannot seem because I would lose to much. And there is a possibility bitcoin will not fail so I wait.

[psudoBTC]

things are changing. Apple pay and nfc payments are ready to go. APPLE has made agreements with main companies to have very low fees. And everything will be very safe, since fingerprint scanner and reliable iOS.

First of all credit cards have always been safe for consumers because of the fact that banks cannot hold them responsible for unauthorized purchases.

Secondly the fees will have to be higher then using a credit card without apple acting as an additional middle man. Apple will demand some kind of a profit (as it does with every other service it provides), as will the other middlmen involved in these credit card transactions.

[Impros88]

things are changing. Apple pay and nfc payments are ready to go. APPLE has made agreements with main companies to have very low fees. And everything will be very safe, since fingerprint scanner and reliable iOS.

First of all credit cards have always been safe for consumers because of the fact that banks cannot hold them responsible for unauthorized purchases.

Secondly the fees will have to be higher then using a credit card without apple acting as an additional middle man. Apple will demand some kind of a profit (as it does with every other service it provides), as will the other middlmen involved in these credit card transactions.

not at all. Fees will be even less than usual.

[yayayo]

Well guys, if the Ponzi is going to burst, remember that I told you.

un fortunately i cannot sell. I would lose 40% of my investment. Btc has deluded me a lot. At first I was involved and invested a lot, I had some savings I did not use them to live, so I tried. I won something first, I invested a second time and at third time I involved a big capital. I was unlucky. It was in December 2013.

People who don't do research and can't control emotions at least to some extent should not invest in anything. Trading any investment lacking knowledge and a proper plan while at the same time expecting only positive returns on that activity is madness.

Based on the recent negativity and capitulation voiced by a growing number of people here I'm quite sure that the bottom is in.

ya.ya.yo!

[oceans]

Still not getting why people seem to think that Apple Pay will make bitcoin useless? It really baffles me that people will think that and makes me wonder if people realise that Apple Pay and bitcoin are two completely different things so in which case how can bitcoin really be made useless form that? Unless I am missing something?

[Soros Shorts]

Still not getting why people seem to think that Apple Pay will make bitcoin useless? It really baffles me that people will think that and makes me wonder if people realise that Apple Pay and bitcoin are two completely different things so in which case how can bitcoin really be made useless form that? Unless I am missing something?

Yeah to me Apple Pay and Bitcoin represent 2 mostly non-overlapping spaces. I have never thought that Bitcoin would be that useful for making day-to-day micro transactions to retail vendors through a smart phone. Yet lately there have been many relatively new accounts making posts inferring that Bitcoin has failed because it is so difficult or impossible for the average Joe to use it to pay for their $5 latte or settle their $50 bar tab. Don't they realize that it good for much more than that? Bitcoin can be successful without capturing the small transaction space.

[Impros88]

Still not getting why people seem to think that Apple Pay will make bitcoin useless? It really baffles me that people will think that and makes me wonder if people realise that Apple Pay and bitcoin are two completely different things so in which case how can bitcoin really be made useless form that? Unless I am missing something?

Yeah to me Apple Pay and Bitcoin represent 2 mostly non-overlapping spaces. I have never thought that Bitcoin would be that useful for making day-to-day micro transactions to retail vendors through a smart phone. Yet lately there have been many relatively new accounts making posts inferring that Bitcoin has failed because it is so difficult or impossible for the average Joe to use it to pay for their $5 latte or settle their $50 bar tab. Don't they realize that it good for much more than that? Bitcoin can be successful without capturing the small transaction space.

put away online transactions and daily payments in stores what is left? oh yes people sending big money to their relatives from the other part of the world. Billions people doing that. I have just sent 50000 dollars in bitcoin to my relative in Australia. I would have spent 50 dollars in a safe bank transaction but why to do that when I can trust Tje bitcoin network? In worst case btc will be lost or stolen. Oh how can my grandpa in Australia convert his 500000 dollars in bitcoin back to dollars? Maybe he can ask some friend who could steal the money.
Yeah whatever. Btc is lost. Let s deal with it.