CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) High PoS Investment Journal

[CrazyLoaf]

I was playing around with some numbers since I was bored. I didn't look at the effect of compounding since I feel that, especially in the case of Tranz and Presstab, they have a better handle on avoiding obscene inflation than I do. Based on the PoS rates, I was trying to figure out what amount of BTC it would take to generate either 4 or 1 BTC a month per coin.

HYPERSTAKE

*9 days min*

40.58 stake periods per year
18.48% stake per period
3.33 stake periods per month
61.54% per month

*30 days max*

12.18 stake periods per year
61.58% stake per period/month

Need 6.5 BTC worth to generate 4 BTC monthly
1.625 BTC for 1 BTC

TEKCOIN

12.175 stake periods per year

30 days / 20% - 20 BTC / 5 BTC

30 days / 30% - 13.33 BTC / 2.67 BTC

30 days / 40% - 10 BTC / 2.5 BTC

BOTTLECAPS

*15 days min*

24.35 stake periods per year
8.21% stake per period
2 stake periods per month
16.42% per month

*45 days max*
8.12 stake periods per year
24.63% stake per period
0.66 stake periods per month
16.26% per month

Need 24.62 BTC to generate 4 BTC monthly
6.16 BTC for 1 BTC

HOBONICKELS

36.53 stake periods per year
2% stake per period
3 stake periods per month
6% per month

Need 66.67 BTC to generate 4 BTC monthly
16.67 BTC for 1 BTC

[CrazyLoaf]

The interesting takeaway is that by just focusing on HYP, TEK, and CAP, you can *potentially* build a portfolio that *may* generate 3 BTC a month in stake while still being able to own the coins for roughly 10.5 BTC.

Let's just take BTC at $450, so $1,350. Look at that through the lens of a minimum wage job at $7.25. You've already able to replace it with change on the staking alone on a monthly basis (186 hours via stake vs 160 monthly work hours). 10.5 BTC is $4,725, giving you an effective ROI of around 30% monthly. Note that I didn't include any compounding effects and actually used a 30% stake rate on TEK vs the historical 40%, and a pretty cheap BTC level.

All of this points to a pretty good *gamble* on risk/return levels. Where else can you put in $4,725 and potentially walk away with $1,350? Then there is the added bonus of it being open to leverage on BTC as well. Say none of these coins every go anywhere price wise, but BTC goes back to $1k and volume remains more or less the same? Then your portfolio becomes $10k throwing off $3k monthly.

Let's look at this from the area of a higher earner. Landlords who work on their own properties usually use $50 an hour for their labor, depending on their location. Stakes pay an effective 27 hours, which I'm almost willing to bump up to 40 (reducing to $33.75 an hour, or an effective $67,500 yearly job) due to the fact that it's as close to passive as can be.

Just some thoughts. Could be all bullshit

[breakbeater]

So what's the difference between a coin that generates POS blocks every 10 days and ORB (or any other high diff POS coin) that stakes at 10-12 days. Where is the "help" to the network?
I'm confused.......  

If you keep your wallet offline almost always and generate a single block with an interest, that's one situation. If you keep the wallet online 24/7 and generate 10 blocks, that's another situation. In the former case, you don't help to distribute the block chain and relay transactions, don't create many blocks which is the most important work. The network is less secure against 51% attacks with most stakers offline.

What you wrote is obvious and makes sense.
But, if i have one HBN block that generates one POS after 10 days and one ORB block wich generates also one POS block after 10 days (because of the high diff).........where is THE DIFFERENCE???

P.S: all my wallets are open 24/7 and i have many blocks that enter in POS almost everyday.
P.S2: @ Crazyloaf
I think Tranz will add a "Max stake value of 500 coins" in HBN 1.5 wich is good for coin health. HYP already has a 1000 coins limit per POS block. This should avoid obscene inflation.

[tokyoghetto]

HBN has been my bread and butter since the beginning of this year. steady volume, good development and an active community. No pumpers or shills involved. I also hold HYP and TEK which is no secret since I love high interest PoS coins myself.

This journal looks good. Best of luck! I will definitely be reading it.

[vegasguy]

Good to see you Crazyloaf. Love your info here, its spot on. Your story sounds exactly like mine. When I started in Nov 2013, I mined everything I could. I really didnt know what I had and didnt have a clear investment strategy. I hold the following coins in order of prefrence:

1. Bottle caps (I only hold 6000 coins, but this is going to change really fast).
2. HyperStake (Remember guys withdraw in 1600 coin blocks or you waste the rest, if you dont know what this means , read their ann, its IMPORTANT!!). Proven , it DOES pay, and pay well!
3. Jackpot. Most are suprised to see this and even disagree. Heres the facts: 40% pos, trusted dev, senior coin, and a wallet that truly pays and it pays well every day, NEVER had a problem, held since the start and STILL mine today, active happy community, and very regular wallet updates, LOVE IT!!! Hold 7Mil
4. HBN
5. Super (Its on shaky ground right now, but POS rocks the house, and is 100% pos interest, prices are CHEAP right now, I get paid 1-6 coins about every 10 minutes holding 56k of coins worth 1200 sat each)
6. Boom. Now some of you might wonder on this one as the POS is only 9% , BUT it feels higher. I hold 46k coins and get about .7 of a coin about 20 times a day. They are about 1500 sat each. First dev to score a 5/5 POD.
7. Captcoin. POS is 30% interest. Professional dev, and many optomistic investors. A Newer coin, and prices low at 1400 sat
8. Stealth. 20% POS interest. More important features 5/5 POD, trades 250+ BTC in volume daily on Bittrex. Constantly goes up in price.
9. Sonic Screwdriver 20% interest. 5/5 POD. Professional dev with optomistic community. A Very new coin, but seems to have an exciting future.

Other ideas: Noble will soon go pos at 175%, note dev been saying this for MONTHS, but it only costs 7-8 sat at this time. Growth coin is another idea, but its seems like its dying, wouldnt put too much into this. (small community, not too active, but 100% pos interest)

I wanted to throw in my ideas because everyone has mentioned all the highest POS coins many times over, so I wanted to share my interests for you to consider to add to your portfolio.

I left out tek, because it seems the Dev can never get things straight. Wallets always seems on wrong fork, always problems with this or that. He has even said last week that the POS is really only 40%. The coins above I have personally gained some handsome payouts and can personally attest that they all work very well, and payout as advertised.

Vegas

[thundertoe]

I left out tek, because it seems the Dev can never get things straight. Wallets always seems on wrong fork, always problems with this or that. He has even said last week that the POS is really only 40%. The coins above I have personally gained some handsome payouts and can personally attest that they all work very well, and payout as advertised.

Vegas


well im glad you left it out, considering the year it has had you really missed the boat congratulations.

TEK was .00000401 nov 18th
actually .00000101 on nov 25th
has dropped under .00001 multiple times only to recover quickly and strongly.
now sitting at .00027... yeap horrible deal

[broken_pixel]

^ Is that you Blundertoe?

[thundertoe]

^ Is that you Blundertoe?

yes that is me

[presstab]

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

Why use multiple addresses?

[ghostlander]

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

Why use multiple addresses?

Because sendmany works this way.

[presstab]

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

Why use multiple addresses?

Because sendmany works this way.

Sendmany the rpc call eh? I suppose it just depends on how you want your coins organized, whether they are all kept in one address, or if they are spread through many addresses. But there is no actual benefit in terms of reward to having multiple addresses.

[mtwelve]

I sent you an email, did you get it? ^

[presstab]

I sent you an email, did you get it? ^

Yes I did   I will be responding soon, my co-dev David Latapie would like to have some participation in the answers so I have sent it to him. Thanks mtwelve!

[ghostlander]

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

Why use multiple addresses?

Because sendmany works this way.

Sendmany the rpc call eh? I suppose it just depends on how you want your coins organized, whether they are all kept in one address, or if they are spread through many addresses. But there is no actual benefit in terms of reward to having multiple addresses.

It saves time and allows to load these addresses into separate wallets should you need it.

[CrazyLoaf]

Tossing this idea out here, but may just be me talking out of my ass, so let's see what you all think.

One thing I like about these high PoS coins is that the market caps on them is pretty low atm. I think the highest seemingly unpumped rate could be $635k for TEK, and then we could say that HBN tended towards $400k-$500k excluding the Mr. Net pump at a time when Cryptsy wallets were having issues.

Right now, HBN is $172,102 in market cap. Now, let's look from the perspective of hiring a developer. Would $150 hourly be too much or too little for Tranz? I don't think so, especially when you keep in mind that the rule of thumb is to charge x3 what you want your effective hourly rate to be. $50 an hour is $100k a year. Can we agree that Tranz is at minimum a $100k a year developer, especially compared to say a typical salaried job where maybe $25k-$30k of that salary would be pro-rated out in benefits, so a $75k a year job?

Alright, the current market cap assumes 1,147 hours of work at a $150 an hour rate, IF it was purely a development job. If Tranz said he has at least a 2 year plan on HBN, would it be safe to say at least 50 hours a month, or 12.5 hours a week is spent on HBN?

Of course, the reality is more complicated than that, but valuing a coin from a development costs perspective just crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

[thundertoe]

Tossing this idea out here, but may just be me talking out of my ass, so let's see what you all think.

One thing I like about these high PoS coins is that the market caps on them is pretty low atm. I think the highest seemingly unpumped rate could be $635k for TEK, and then we could say that HBN tended towards $400k-$500k excluding the Mr. Net pump at a time when Cryptsy wallets were having issues.

Right now, HBN is $172,102 in market cap. Now, let's look from the perspective of hiring a developer. Would $150 hourly be too much or too little for Tranz? I don't think so, especially when you keep in mind that the rule of thumb is to charge x3 what you want your effective hourly rate to be. $50 an hour is $100k a year. Can we agree that Tranz is at minimum a $100k a year developer, especially compared to say a typical salaried job where maybe $25k-$30k of that salary would be pro-rated out in benefits, so a $75k a year job?

Alright, the current market cap assumes 1,147 hours of work at a $150 an hour rate, IF it was purely a development job. If Tranz said he has at least a 2 year plan on HBN, would it be safe to say at least 50 hours a month, or 12.5 hours a week is spent on HBN?

Of course, the reality is more complicated than that, but valuing a coin from a development costs perspective just crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

I think people in general have no idea how much work and time goes into many aspects of getting a coin running strong in code, or to market. I also don't think many coins are going far on one man team shows, there is just too much to do and too many areas to take care of.
Having a budget or getting paid would be amazing... want a new compile or something? bang easily done if you have money.

[CrazyLoaf]

I think people in general have no idea how much work and time goes into many aspects of getting a coin running strong in code, or to market. I also don't think many coins are going far on one man team shows, there is just too much to do and too many areas to take care of.
Having a budget or getting paid would be amazing... want a new compile or something? bang easily done if you have money.

Right, which is why it blows my mind to see such low caps on these cheap coins. I don't even think you could get a restaurant for like $170k total. Looking at 6% ROI on that is $10,200. If that's the net, what is the gross? Crazy.

[CrazyLoaf]

Made some changes to TEK in the earlier posts based on checking the forums some more as well as my experience with the coin as of late:

TEK is an old guard high PoS coin, meeting a few other alts in the "older than 1 year and active" category. The beauty of TEK is that it's 30 day minimum holding period to obtain juicy stakes makes choosing to hold or dump a tough decision, making it difficult for new people to buy a nice large block on exchanges. That's also part of the coin's power.

Recently, there was a hard fork and some staking changes based on difficulty where, since so many people had mature blocks, they set off difficulty calculations that made the stake less. Some people thought this was a permanent attribute, and ragedumped large amounts of the coins. One person in particular dumped 35k in one go, and I was able to pick up some of them.

However, I have personally staked some coins since the fork at 40%, and with new coins, I have tried to spread them out each day since PoS difficulty I'm sure will fluctuate in the short term. I think even if the stake is permanently reduced, TEK could have value since it is one of the older PoS coins (1+ year old) and the current number of coins outstanding isn't that high (2.2M vs HYP's 17.6M). I also am more partial to the 30 day waiting period since it rewards holders vs traders.

[presstab]

Made some changes to TEK in the earlier posts based on checking the forums some more as well as my experience with the coin as of late:

TEK is an old guard high PoS coin, meeting a few other alts in the "older than 1 year and active" category. The beauty of TEK is that it's 30 day minimum holding period to obtain juicy stakes makes choosing to hold or dump a tough decision, making it difficult for new people to buy a nice large block on exchanges. That's also part of the coin's power.

Recently, there was a hard fork and some staking changes based on difficulty where, since so many people had mature blocks, they set off difficulty calculations that made the stake less. Some people thought this was a permanent attribute, and ragedumped large amounts of the coins. One person in particular dumped 35k in one go, and I was able to pick up some of them.

However, I have personally staked some coins since the fork at 40%, and with new coins, I have tried to spread them out each day since PoS difficulty I'm sure will fluctuate in the short term. I think even if the stake is permanently reduced, TEK could have value since it is one of the older PoS coins (1+ year old) and the current number of coins outstanding isn't that high (2.2M vs HYP's 17.6M). I also am more partial to the 30 day waiting period since it rewards holders vs traders.

Yes I think this is something that TEK really has going for it... the 30 day period. It really requires a "proof of commitment", and for sure restricts the order books.

[forbesmining]

RE: Hyper: Need 6.5 BTC worth to generate 4 BTC monthly--> Are you saying an investment of 6.5 BTC would then yield 4 BTC/monthly?
If so..there is no other financial instrument like it anywhere, although I acknowledge the high risk.