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Author Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)  (Read 432611 times)
lfloorwalker
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May 26, 2016, 07:05:13 AM
 #3701

Hi everyone,
I just connected a kWh data-logger from a solar panel, battery to an ARM wallet node.
Some more stuff to do but this is exciting. Been working on this for over 1.5 yrs.
Best,
-lfloorwalker

It's awesome to this unfolding. When will the final results from the experiment be released? There are some big names in this project!!!!

That is after the presentation next week.
We are still early days in testing/prototyping. To get to minimum viable product (MVP), that takes to end of the year because all of the security features/attack vectors need to be studied. That is one purpose of the chain-of-things event with a lot of security experts attending. But definitely a positive step forward.

Best,
-lfloorwalker

I'm not an expert on these things but I was thinking about the security aspect of it. If one person was to chage the input of the data-logger the other nodes would need to be able to detect fraud. The only way I see that happening would be some type of proof of code algorithm where the code exist on the blockchain and the nodes would verify transactions by also verifying that the node sending the data has the same code as at least 50% of the other nodes. Just a thought....

It's a good thought, we are working on this Due-diligence (DD) verification algo right now. It will be a trusted nodes job possibly.
We need to define the SWOT around that.

Best,
-lfloorwalker
Maybe I can give some suggestions.
Be very careful in the selection of hardware. Be mindful and wise in the programming language you choose. If you have the resources go with a correct-by-construction approach to your software development or smart contracts (which is similar to the approach taken by NASA). If your software portion is verified then you know with 100% certainty that it is mathematically correct as a proof, and when you implement it take the most correct approach. Langsec formal proof will result in perfect bug free code.

If you go with C then use well known highly trusted standard libraries, if you're going with Ethereum then formally verify and test your code if you have the human resources and expertise to accomplish this. Do not rely on human error. Finally if you're dealing with hardware while this is the hardest part to secure it's likely for an MVP or prototype you really only have to get the software really secure. The hardware is something else entirely.

For more:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CorrectByConstruction
https://intelligence.org/2014/03/02/bob-constable/
http://www.nuprl.org/

Thanks Luckybit, will definitely listen to this advice.

|Solcrypto|ElectriCChain| SLR Tips: 8Hocu8s8u8FFAyh5ev2qsNmLZYgeiVToHi
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May 26, 2016, 01:05:02 PM
 #3702

If I know more about the attack vectors maybe I can help more or maybe if there is a list of attack vectors for the community to research that would work. But my guess is the concerns are hardware and software vulnerabilities. Software you can solve by formal verification and correct by construction to make it bug free. Hardware it really depends on what you can afford and how determined the adversary is. Economic incentives can also be put into play to improve security. Incentive centered design can take care of that part using smart contracts: https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/hotsec06/tech/full_papers/wash/wash.pdf



Aren't we also talking about emulation of the actual device too? Plug in an emulator pass through behind your TV or Computer or every outlet in your house. Claim to have solar panels and then gain reward of the $20 per SLR price levels that everyone will be buying and vying for pushing the price to $40 then $60 upwards to $400 a coin to compete with BitCoin even though it has to sell to Bitcoin, the selling could actually hurt Bitcoin markets so SLR will have an edge there. Seeing that there will be Billions of dollars of SLR dumping on Bitcoin and lowering the price it gives SLR an opportunity to catch up Smiley

That is to say that people will be buying Bitcoin at that point when they could just have an epiphany and use their money to buy Solar and then Claim and then Sell SLR for Bitcoin. At that point we have another problem no one will be buying Bitcoin to sustain the sale of SolarCoin Smiley Or perhaps they don't have to buy Solar and just buy the emulator to plug into every outlet in their house in order to gain the $400 SLR Coins. They still get to use the power they emulate too as a pass through since it only monitors.

So SLR price should sky rocket and Bitcoin price will dive since it has to provide the capitol for the exodus of Bitcoin from the sale of the expensive SLR. Make it happen!

Each device would have to have a cryptographic identifier and you can secure these devices from emulation to a certain extent but the question is at what cost? Even now people can find ways to leech free electricity if they are willing to go through extraordinary effort. What matters is how much fraud is there and is it beyond acceptable levels? At what point is it worth the cost to do something about it?

This is a bit like the botnet problem in Proof of Work mining.

It has to be worth it. At a certain point in scale, you have to provide name plate identification. Would it be economical to simulate a few watts of electricity generation below the threshold? Probably not because the cost of doing something like that will outweigh any potential ill gotten gains.

Yes, it is something we noted in our analogue attack vector SWOT on the input current sensor. The benefits of the analogue attack do not outweigh the costs.

IN terms of generation fraud, its also important to remember that once nameplate capacity is verified, its pretty easy to estimate production.  As things get more robust, estimates can be made based on irradiance factors, nearest neighbor generation etc.  There will always be some fraud, the trick is to make the balance correct between system integrity and ease of use for customers.  We will strive to get more robust and scale the security with the scope and scale of the claim.  In addition periodic audits and true up details will be vital.  Solarcoins are granted on a conditional basis, so any hints of fraud jeapordize future claims.  Hopefully for most users, Falsifying a few months of claims at at the upper bound of estimated generation isn't likely worth jeapordizing 20 years on a go forward basis.

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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May 26, 2016, 09:19:37 PM
 #3703

#solarcoin now on #bitsquare #tor exchange bitsquare exchange https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare/releases  no bid/offer yet.

Yea I don't see any asks either.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
lfloorwalker
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May 27, 2016, 01:46:56 AM
 #3704

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Here is the output of our node currently.

Meanwhile we are checking if it is something to do with the way the binaries were compiled.
But this currently seems clear.


picture share

Thanking you,
-lfloorwalker

|Solcrypto|ElectriCChain| SLR Tips: 8Hocu8s8u8FFAyh5ev2qsNmLZYgeiVToHi
Alao
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May 27, 2016, 02:29:33 AM
 #3705

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Here is the output of our node currently.

Meanwhile we are checking if it is something to do with the way the binaries were compiled.
But this currently seems clear.


picture share

Thanking you,
-lfloorwalker


I keep my wallet running 24/7 for the most part.  Is that all i have to do?  Usually is says that I have 8 peers connected.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
corather
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May 27, 2016, 04:52:47 AM
 #3706

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Have you tried restarting the wallet? Occasionally it'll get stuck while updating, but it's never been a serious problem.

lfloorwalker
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May 27, 2016, 05:32:38 AM
 #3707

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Have you tried restarting the wallet? Occasionally it'll get stuck while updating, but it's never been a serious problem.

Tried to restart the wallet about 5 times. We are always stuck.
We are still stuck today and haven't discovered any blocks. So I am going to leave it on another 24 hours and then power down cause I must travel (with the node).
-lfloorwalker

|Solcrypto|ElectriCChain| SLR Tips: 8Hocu8s8u8FFAyh5ev2qsNmLZYgeiVToHi
lfloorwalker
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May 27, 2016, 05:33:46 AM
 #3708

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Here is the output of our node currently.

Meanwhile we are checking if it is something to do with the way the binaries were compiled.
But this currently seems clear.


picture share

Thanking you,
-lfloorwalker


I keep my wallet running 24/7 for the most part.  Is that all i have to do?  Usually is says that I have 8 peers connected.

Thanks Alao, that is perfect.
We are on 38 nodes currently.
Best,
-lfloorwalker

|Solcrypto|ElectriCChain| SLR Tips: 8Hocu8s8u8FFAyh5ev2qsNmLZYgeiVToHi
corather
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May 27, 2016, 05:44:38 AM
 #3709

Hi all,

I need to put a request out to the community.

We are running an ARM wallet on a BitSeed Node and it will be used for a presentation next week at the Chain-of-things(CoT) event.
Here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chain-of-things-blockchain-iot-case-study-and-conference-tickets-24424181384

We have a problem that we are stuck at block #1177294 and we have only found 2 blocks in 12 hours.

The current blockchain is up to #1194909.
Here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I talked to the people that compiled the ARM wallet for the Bitseed node and they said one reason for the slow block update might be due to the fact that we have sometimes less than 36 nodes on the network.
So to cover that possibility, we are asking anyone who has the ability to turn on more nodes, please turn on what you can?
At least for the next 5 days. The presentation is on June 1st.

Have you tried restarting the wallet? Occasionally it'll get stuck while updating, but it's never been a serious problem.

Tried to restart the wallet about 5 times. We are always stuck.
We are still stuck today and haven't discovered any blocks. So I am going to leave it on another 24 hours and then power down cause I must travel (with the node).
-lfloorwalker

Is it possible you can bootstrap the chain on the linux software?

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May 27, 2016, 07:58:53 PM
 #3710

If I know more about the attack vectors maybe I can help more or maybe if there is a list of attack vectors for the community to research that would work. But my guess is the concerns are hardware and software vulnerabilities. Software you can solve by formal verification and correct by construction to make it bug free. Hardware it really depends on what you can afford and how determined the adversary is. Economic incentives can also be put into play to improve security. Incentive centered design can take care of that part using smart contracts: https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/hotsec06/tech/full_papers/wash/wash.pdf



Aren't we also talking about emulation of the actual device too? Plug in an emulator pass through behind your TV or Computer or every outlet in your house. Claim to have solar panels and then gain reward of the $20 per SLR price levels that everyone will be buying and vying for pushing the price to $40 then $60 upwards to $400 a coin to compete with BitCoin even though it has to sell to Bitcoin, the selling could actually hurt Bitcoin markets so SLR will have an edge there. Seeing that there will be Billions of dollars of SLR dumping on Bitcoin and lowering the price it gives SLR an opportunity to catch up Smiley

That is to say that people will be buying Bitcoin at that point when they could just have an epiphany and use their money to buy Solar and then Claim and then Sell SLR for Bitcoin. At that point we have another problem no one will be buying Bitcoin to sustain the sale of SolarCoin Smiley Or perhaps they don't have to buy Solar and just buy the emulator to plug into every outlet in their house in order to gain the $400 SLR Coins. They still get to use the power they emulate too as a pass through since it only monitors.

So SLR price should sky rocket and Bitcoin price will dive since it has to provide the capitol for the exodus of Bitcoin from the sale of the expensive SLR. Make it happen!

Each device would have to have a cryptographic identifier and you can secure these devices from emulation to a certain extent but the question is at what cost? Even now people can find ways to leech free electricity if they are willing to go through extraordinary effort. What matters is how much fraud is there and is it beyond acceptable levels? At what point is it worth the cost to do something about it?

This is a bit like the botnet problem in Proof of Work mining.

It has to be worth it. At a certain point in scale, you have to provide name plate identification. Would it be economical to simulate a few watts of electricity generation below the threshold? Probably not because the cost of doing something like that will outweigh any potential ill gotten gains.

Yes, it is something we noted in our analogue attack vector SWOT on the input current sensor. The benefits of the analogue attack do not outweigh the costs.

IN terms of generation fraud, its also important to remember that once nameplate capacity is verified, its pretty easy to estimate production.  As things get more robust, estimates can be made based on irradiance factors, nearest neighbor generation etc.  There will always be some fraud, the trick is to make the balance correct between system integrity and ease of use for customers.  We will strive to get more robust and scale the security with the scope and scale of the claim.  In addition periodic audits and true up details will be vital.  Solarcoins are granted on a conditional basis, so any hints of fraud jeapordize future claims.  Hopefully for most users, Falsifying a few months of claims at at the upper bound of estimated generation isn't likely worth jeapordizing 20 years on a go forward basis.


If they never owned Solar and when SolarCoin replaces BitCoin it will be worth it. $500 a coin for 1KWH is definitely worth it. I would think someone could make a hack and mass produce it at that point. Then they could also average the output and make it go even lower for radiance. Then if your output is lower than your neighbors you are not committing noticable fraud. Being that you may have a faulty panel or a tree in the way or a bad piece of equipment. All they have to do is stay under the radar and no one would know any difference.

But there is no monitoring at the moment. So anyone can claim to have solar to claim solar coin. Who will police millions of so called claimers? And it is not like a crime is being committed since you are just giving away something for free. And they can say they only Claimed to have it and they could Claim to sell it after they Claimed. Smiley
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May 27, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
 #3711

For what it is worth - getting hot under the collar about solar generation fraud is quite meaningless provided the panel wattage installed is properly verified.

Day to day output is variable,  month on month is just about static, but year on year for a given location is almost a constant - give or take some cleaning, climate change etc.

You do need to take into account the geography - for instance my Auckland 4.2kW will not have the same annual output as an Arizona 4.2kW.

Each installation will have its' slight output variations from the one next door, shading / inverter type / panel type / orientation - but these are pretty much fixed once the system is started.  

My panels have averaged 15.8kWh / day over the past 1656 days since install, with max / min annuals at 16.2 and 15.6.  I fail to see why there is all the fuss, unless I have missed something...

BTW - checkout : paladin.nz for the latest in excess solar recovery to hot water / storage heating / pools and EV charging.

T

SLR - 8dNrncD6mBWzPPQLMRqmk9oCxoC9N7Xfev
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May 28, 2016, 02:22:35 PM
 #3712

For what it is worth - getting hot under the collar about solar generation fraud is quite meaningless provided the panel wattage installed is properly verified.

Day to day output is variable,  month on month is just about static, but year on year for a given location is almost a constant - give or take some cleaning, climate change etc.

You do need to take into account the geography - for instance my Auckland 4.2kW will not have the same annual output as an Arizona 4.2kW.

Each installation will have its' slight output variations from the one next door, shading / inverter type / panel type / orientation - but these are pretty much fixed once the system is started.  

My panels have averaged 15.8kWh / day over the past 1656 days since install, with max / min annuals at 16.2 and 15.6.  I fail to see why there is all the fuss, unless I have missed something...

BTW - checkout : paladin.nz for the latest in excess solar recovery to hot water / storage heating / pools and EV charging.

T


You provide a pretty good point.  Any changes in the wattage should be easy to detect.  You can essentially force other nodes to verify any output and then they could reject it.  Kinda like an orphaned block.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
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May 28, 2016, 03:14:48 PM
 #3713

I heard a bird in the IOTA chat saying that SLR was added to Poloniex...not there now but any chance this is happening soon?
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May 28, 2016, 03:16:55 PM
 #3714

I also heard this but i can't say for sure yet.

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May 28, 2016, 04:42:15 PM
 #3715

I heard a bird in the IOTA chat saying that SLR was added to Poloniex...not there now but any chance this is happening soon?

Better buckle your seat-belt.  Once we get on Poloniex you won't see these low prices.  There is big money on that exchange!!!  Get ready for the dollar mark.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
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May 28, 2016, 05:01:11 PM
 #3716

I heard a bird in the IOTA chat saying that SLR was added to Poloniex...not there now but any chance this is happening soon?

Better buckle your seat-belt.  Once we get on Poloniex you won't see these low prices.  There is big money on that exchange!!!  Get ready for the dollar mark.

5 sounds much better Tongue

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May 28, 2016, 05:45:44 PM
 #3717

Just getting solarcoin trading on that exchange will boost the price as they will have to buy coins from bittrex to get the ball rolling for liquidity.

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May 28, 2016, 06:09:36 PM
 #3718

I heard a bird in the IOTA chat saying that SLR was added to Poloniex...not there now but any chance this is happening soon?

Better buckle your seat-belt.  Once we get on Poloniex you won't see these low prices.  There is big money on that exchange!!!  Get ready for the dollar mark.

5 sounds much better Tongue

Yea that would be nice.  There is a little over 200k on the ask.  If a big buys comes along I see it opening at least 20 cents on Polinex.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
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May 28, 2016, 08:06:51 PM
 #3719

Poloniex? Damn! SLR will greatly benefit from the trading volume on there. Exciting times ahead  Grin

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May 28, 2016, 08:21:42 PM
 #3720

I wish we had a 100% yes or no

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