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Author Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)  (Read 432638 times)
CryptoNick
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May 28, 2016, 11:02:11 PM
 #3721

For what it is worth - getting hot under the collar about solar generation fraud is quite meaningless provided the panel wattage installed is properly verified.

Day to day output is variable,  month on month is just about static, but year on year for a given location is almost a constant - give or take some cleaning, climate change etc.

You do need to take into account the geography - for instance my Auckland 4.2kW will not have the same annual output as an Arizona 4.2kW.

Each installation will have its' slight output variations from the one next door, shading / inverter type / panel type / orientation - but these are pretty much fixed once the system is started.  

My panels have averaged 15.8kWh / day over the past 1656 days since install, with max / min annuals at 16.2 and 15.6.  I fail to see why there is all the fuss, unless I have missed something...

BTW - checkout : paladin.nz for the latest in excess solar recovery to hot water / storage heating / pools and EV charging.

T


Great stats! Yeah you are missing something, I don't own Solar but can claim I do. Unfortunately no one really knows what the current claimers have as output. They are stating that they own the panels. Does SolarCoin fly out and verify the install?

Having a nameplate capacity means what? That you know the numbers and took a picture of the back of a panel? What does that prove against fraud and these claims last for 20 years without monitoring. Will it be a requirement to monitor and if so the expense must also now be worth paying.

Anyone can claim and if monitoring is not required then anyone can commit fraud. At $500 a coin do you think it will be a problem? I think so, I guess if it never gets to $500 a coin then don't worry. If the coin goes to $500 and monitoring is required, someone will make a device to defeat the monitor and it could also emulate a panel too since it is just tied in to a line off the array. If SolarCoin takes over as the new BitCoin fraud will be the biggest problem. You can see how much money is made from ASIC's so the Monitor hack would be a simple and less costly development.
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May 29, 2016, 12:32:16 AM
 #3722

I've been working with ATMs for the last 14 years and the issue of security is obviously a major concern in this industry. I can see a parallel here with the discussion around securing the hardware for SolarCoin generation.

ATMs have a piece of hardware known as an Encrypting PIN Pad (EPP), this is the physical keypad where you enter your PIN. The device encrypts the PIN within the EPP itself before it's used in any message exchanges. The keys used for all ATM transactions are stored within the EPP. In order to enter the encryption keys into the EPP they can either be loaded manually or a remote key exchange can occur with the transaction host. For remote key loading purposes each EPP is injected with a private key by the manufacturer and the public key is given to the transaction host so they can successfully exchange messages.

Could this same principal be used for hardware designed for SolarCoin generation by having each manufacturer use a private/public key set and inject the private key into the hardware during manufacture?
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May 29, 2016, 02:32:45 AM
 #3723

https://twitter.com/poloniex     Maybe we will see news here on Solarcoin being added?

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May 29, 2016, 03:29:35 AM
 #3724

https://twitter.com/poloniex     Maybe we will see news here on Solarcoin being added?

This would be great news! 

Nice to see that during this bloodbath of altcoins Solar has been performing well.  I really like this coin and continue to accumulate when it dips  Grin

I love Bitcoin
CryptoNick
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May 29, 2016, 03:32:06 AM
 #3725

I've been working with ATMs for the last 14 years and the issue of security is obviously a major concern in this industry. I can see a parallel here with the discussion around securing the hardware for SolarCoin generation.

ATMs have a piece of hardware known as an Encrypting PIN Pad (EPP), this is the physical keypad where you enter your PIN. The device encrypts the PIN within the EPP itself before it's used in any message exchanges. The keys used for all ATM transactions are stored within the EPP. In order to enter the encryption keys into the EPP they can either be loaded manually or a remote key exchange can occur with the transaction host. For remote key loading purposes each EPP is injected with a private key by the manufacturer and the public key is given to the transaction host so they can successfully exchange messages.

Could this same principal be used for hardware designed for SolarCoin generation by having each manufacturer use a private/public key set and inject the private key into the hardware during manufacture?

Sounds like it should work, the only problem is that the line is hooked to the array. So if I make it seem like the meter is attached to an array I can hook a meter into every outlet in my house and show that I am generating power. If SolarCoin becomes expensive, people will go to great lengths to make a cheap unit to do this with and program an idle based on a clock and even program in daylight savings. Or they could even have one solar panel providing the input to raise and lower output levels based on the input of the one solar panel. The power just needs to be present and there would be a converter to emulate the output.

I don't think this is a bad thing though, it still saves power compared to BitCoin and some people will never play by the rules. Some people would be enriched but that is no different than the 33 Million PoW coin out there right now that had nothing to do with Solar Generation at all. It was supposed to represent past solar generation, but won't find its way into the pockets of the people who paid for that solar and were the early adopters of solar power.
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May 29, 2016, 07:35:01 AM
 #3726

For what it is worth - getting hot under the collar about solar generation fraud is quite meaningless provided the panel wattage installed is properly verified.

Day to day output is variable,  month on month is just about static, but year on year for a given location is almost a constant - give or take some cleaning, climate change etc.

You do need to take into account the geography - for instance my Auckland 4.2kW will not have the same annual output as an Arizona 4.2kW.

Each installation will have its' slight output variations from the one next door, shading / inverter type / panel type / orientation - but these are pretty much fixed once the system is started.  

My panels have averaged 15.8kWh / day over the past 1656 days since install, with max / min annuals at 16.2 and 15.6.  I fail to see why there is all the fuss, unless I have missed something...

BTW - checkout : paladin.nz for the latest in excess solar recovery to hot water / storage heating / pools and EV charging.

T


Great stats! Yeah you are missing something, I don't own Solar but can claim I do. Unfortunately no one really knows what the current claimers have as output. They are stating that they own the panels. Does SolarCoin fly out and verify the install?

Having a nameplate capacity means what? That you know the numbers and took a picture of the back of a panel? What does that prove against fraud and these claims last for 20 years without monitoring. Will it be a requirement to monitor and if so the expense must also now be worth paying.

Anyone can claim and if monitoring is not required then anyone can commit fraud. At $500 a coin do you think it will be a problem? I think so, I guess if it never gets to $500 a coin then don't worry. If the coin goes to $500 and monitoring is required, someone will make a device to defeat the monitor and it could also emulate a panel too since it is just tied in to a line off the array. If SolarCoin takes over as the new BitCoin fraud will be the biggest problem. You can see how much money is made from ASIC's so the Monitor hack would be a simple and less costly development.

Yes, except that - in the process of registering for a solar claim, you do have to provide a registered installer receipt / invoice which will state the nameplate capacity.  (which is the total output of the system in ideal solar conditions.  Usually the lesser of either the total panel capacities or the inverter(s)). But of course that can be forged like anything else.  Also, here in NZ at least, you have to have your system registered with the local transmission / lines company and inspected and certified by them as well.   This is a nominal expense and hassle, but you just cannot reasonably connect 4kW to the grid on any old inverter that may well kill a linesman if it does not behave on a grid failure.  So that is another layer of verification and document chain to hack for the wannabe fraudster.  That is a lot of work for a few SLR a year, because at 1 SLR per generated MWh, I get 5.8SLR a year.   If SLR was at the value of BTC, that would be worth, what,  $3000 a year.  Maybe this would be worth a little larceny it for those of a weakened moral persuasion, but it hardly a fortune - and an unlikely one at that.

The best way to verify your install is with Google Earth.  Most working panels have to be able to see the sky:) - and can be seen by GE.  GE's picture of my roof shows exactly how many panels I have (24).  That they are 190W rather than the more modern 250W plus panels, cannot of course be verified by GE.  However my limitation is my inverter capacity.  SLR have my inverter details and serial numbers, so my installed value is easily verifiable. 

Anyway, your points are valid - fraud is everywhere, and if the prize is worthwhile, someone will find a way to  distort, rort, corrupt or just plain steal it.  And as you say yourself, if you put monitoring equipment on to a system - that too can be manipulated unless it is very clever.   If there was a common  interface on the multitude of inverters then it would be simple enough to come up with a blockchain type solution (using the SLR chain perhaps) that automatically put that day's output onto the blockchain.  Each inverter could then be supporting the chain as well.  However this is far from the case - it is a madness out there in inverter world, a standards anarchy not seen since the days of CP/M.

So the answer, at this stage is unknowable, but I am sure the answer is not that far away in the greater scheme of things.  If SLR ever got to whatever value it would take to trigger fraud, I am sure a suitably effective system would evolve to prevent it. 

T




SLR - 8dNrncD6mBWzPPQLMRqmk9oCxoC9N7Xfev
sandiman
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May 29, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
 #3727

If SLR get added to poloniex, fasten your seatbelt!!!!!


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Alao
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May 29, 2016, 11:03:09 AM
 #3728

If SLR get added to poloniex, fasten your seatbelt!!!!!

I don't think the word is totally out yet. Once smart whales get wind they will buy SLR on Bittrex to sell on Poloniex.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
corather
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May 29, 2016, 12:21:03 PM
 #3729

If SLR get added to poloniex, fasten your seatbelt!!!!!

I don't think the word is totally out yet. Once smart whales get wind they will buy SLR on Bittrex to sell on Poloniex.

I don't think it's going to affect the price as much as people would like it to. What it will do is add liquidity and that's always nice.

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May 29, 2016, 01:15:32 PM
 #3730

Where are the source for SLR appearing on Poloniex? Is it just talk for now behind the scenes? Good news if it does get on there. Given how the total available supply is relatively low on a per $ basis, and excluding that a large percentage of this supply appears to be in the hands of long term holders, the only way to match the incoming $'s would be and increase of SLRs percieved value. With the long term up trend I see a lot more speculators wanting to get in at this early stage.

The extra liquidity is exactly what SLR would need as it continues to grow and increase in value. In the long term hopefully it will create a bit more price stability and reduce the affect of market manipulators trying to keep the price down. No doubt it would be a bumpy ride along the way.
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May 29, 2016, 01:20:10 PM
 #3731

yes indeed.

Alao
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May 29, 2016, 01:55:53 PM
 #3732

Where are the source for SLR appearing on Poloniex? Is it just talk for now behind the scenes? Good news if it does get on there. Given how the total available supply is relatively low on a per $ basis, and excluding that a large percentage of this supply appears to be in the hands of long term holders, the only way to match the incoming $'s would be and increase of SLRs percieved value. With the long term up trend I see a lot more speculators wanting to get in at this early stage.

The extra liquidity is exactly what SLR would need as it continues to grow and increase in value. In the long term hopefully it will create a bit more price stability and reduce the affect of market manipulators trying to keep the price down. No doubt it would be a bumpy ride along the way.

I saw it on the SolarCoin Slack a couple of days ago.

§: 8Q7zvaH955cCbqu2nCvpPcTvczGfe9psxE
§1 = 1MWh
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May 29, 2016, 03:34:36 PM
 #3733

I didn't stake for a while (since early May). I mostly had 0.1's to 0.5's coming in earlier this month, and now it's like 1.2-2.0 coins per stake.

anyone notice anything odd with staking?
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May 29, 2016, 07:25:39 PM
 #3734

I didn't stake for a while (since early May). I mostly had 0.1's to 0.5's coming in earlier this month, and now it's like 1.2-2.0 coins per stake.

anyone notice anything odd with staking?

It will sort itself out in time.

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May 30, 2016, 03:35:42 AM
 #3735

I have a strong bias for thinking this solarcoin project in Africa is awesome.http://nl.ulule.com/solarly-energie/ I studied, cultural anthropolgy with a focus on economic sustainable development at the University of Iowa before attending the Ecole de Ponts et Chaussees in Paris.  My focus was on West Africa. At 21 I spent a month traveling across Niger between Mali and Chad with peace corps volunteers so have a healthy appreciation for the impact of energy and light in places like this.  

The Solarly project potential is super awesome. If you have spare SolarCoin please consider a donation: http://nl.ulule.com/solarly-energie/  This project is written up on the electricchain.org, but blockchain tech can help.  Much of life in the developing world is in the village. I used to share offices with the CEO of Leapfrog http://www.leapfroginvest.com/ which does awesome micro-insurance work for over 80 millions in Africa, and look forward to partnering in the future somehow using the data from the SolarCoin blockchain to facilitate micro-finance and micro-grid management.

For those not following on the electricchain.org.  SolarCoin's future now involves Development economics, space commerce and much more.  We have grown 30x in 2 years and are only getting started.

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
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May 30, 2016, 04:57:09 AM
 #3736

I didn't stake for a while (since early May). I mostly had 0.1's to 0.5's coming in earlier this month, and now it's like 1.2-2.0 coins per stake.

anyone notice anything odd with staking?

I notice with getinfo the coin supply has been the same today:

"coinsupply" : 34145512

and doesn't match the block explorer: 34,309,432 SLR (but this isn't a clickable # so not sure where it comes from)
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/

I suppose the explorer is Total Supply (with reserve) - 98B, but if so it's off by 500k or so. I'm just curious how it works. I thought maybe I was off on another chain, but the heights match.
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May 30, 2016, 07:40:52 AM
 #3737

When Solarcoin is being traded, it acts like a wave. When Solarcoin is being spent, it acts like a particle.


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May 30, 2016, 11:37:21 AM
 #3738

Hey guys I think something went wrong with the hard fork. I havn't been giving much attention to my wallet since I installed the new update: Here is my problem.

Before the update everything worked 100% with no issues. However now (even though I am running the correct version of the wallet) I continuously get a message at the bottom saying: Mandatory update to 2.1.1

I already deleted everything in my %appdata% folder and completely reinstalled the wallet twice. Staking works and I am getting stakes although less frequent and much larger than usual. Anyway does anyone else have this issue. I also tried deleting the peers.dat file but no luck. For some reason The wallet thinks im not on the newest version.

I sent some coins to another wallet and checked on the block explorer so im on the correct chain for sure. but it's sill weird.  Undecided
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May 30, 2016, 12:59:30 PM
 #3739

Hey guys I think something went wrong with the hard fork. I havn't been giving much attention to my wallet since I installed the new update: Here is my problem.

Before the update everything worked 100% with no issues. However now (even though I am running the correct version of the wallet) I continuously get a message at the bottom saying: Mandatory update to 2.1.1

I already deleted everything in my %appdata% folder and completely reinstalled the wallet twice. Staking works and I am getting stakes although less frequent and much larger than usual. Anyway does anyone else have this issue. I also tried deleting the peers.dat file but no luck. For some reason The wallet thinks im not on the newest version.

I sent some coins to another wallet and checked on the block explorer so im on the correct chain for sure. but it's sill weird.  Undecided
I see that upgrade message too, but everything seems to be working OK so I kind of ignored it

SolarCoin Address: 8cESoZyjFvx2Deq6VjQLqPfAwu8UXjcBkK
Gridcoin Address: SAuPu8zarzQykWLGwxc6JRvW3imM8YU9wc
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May 30, 2016, 02:19:21 PM
 #3740

Hey guys I think something went wrong with the hard fork. I havn't been giving much attention to my wallet since I installed the new update: Here is my problem.

Before the update everything worked 100% with no issues. However now (even though I am running the correct version of the wallet) I continuously get a message at the bottom saying: Mandatory update to 2.1.1

I already deleted everything in my %appdata% folder and completely reinstalled the wallet twice. Staking works and I am getting stakes although less frequent and much larger than usual. Anyway does anyone else have this issue. I also tried deleting the peers.dat file but no luck. For some reason The wallet thinks im not on the newest version.

I sent some coins to another wallet and checked on the block explorer so im on the correct chain for sure. but it's sill weird.  Undecided
I see that upgrade message too, but everything seems to be working OK so I kind of ignored it

Alright I hope it gets fixed with the next wallet update. In the meantime im going to make some popcorn and watch BTC & SLR go to the moon/sun . This is the most exited I have been since early 2013  Shocked
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