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Author Topic: Yep, its all fun n games till the FTC gets a phone call...  (Read 3642 times)
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September 23, 2014, 04:27:44 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2014, 07:17:07 PM by Icon
 #1

http://www.coindesk.com/us-government-shuts-embattled-mining-firm-butterfly-labs/


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PS

I am just glade BFL sent me a full refund before they got shut down..

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September 23, 2014, 05:02:02 PM
 #2

About time. Outfits like this one are one of the biggest problems in the bit coin world. Not only do they chase people away from bit coin but they also make it tougher for legitimate business people to operate.   

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September 23, 2014, 05:08:57 PM
 #3

finally some common sense.

customer protection laws working great. even without regulation.. this bit of news should be used as to the fact that if existant laws are actually utilised properly, then no new laws are needed.

customers already have legal protections. im just glad courts are finally applying them to bitcoin businesses, instead of drumming up crap new laws at major expense.

goodbye butterfly labs, we will NOT miss you

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September 23, 2014, 05:20:46 PM
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and welcome here:



 Grin


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September 23, 2014, 05:29:51 PM
 #5

When I got the call from BFL to exchange my order to "buy another person's pre-order" that set off a few red flags.  And, "sorry your card is late" so here is a coupon for 50% off.  It got so complicated, they couldn't even keep track of it. They didn't want to give me a refund on the card that was 50% off, after a big fight they gave in... Anyway, I got 100% of my money back on 2 cards, but wasted a ton of time with them. Glad to see them shut down.

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September 23, 2014, 05:33:41 PM
 #6

Amazing it took this long.

Nice to see the owners getting named individually as well.  One question I foresee though is that I bet a lot of BFL's assets are held in Bitcoin.  How will the FTC be able to obtain the ill-gotten Bitcoin?  Here is an issue that has been discussed in this forum a lot - let's see if the FTC is smart enough to track and obtain some of BFL's Bitcoins, or if the BFL scammers hid them.
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September 23, 2014, 05:37:37 PM
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You have all these complaints from Bitcoin users so expect more BitLicense-type proposals.

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September 23, 2014, 06:11:50 PM
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Here's the court flling.

The named individuals are Darla Drake, Nasser Ghoseiri, and Sonny Vleisides.

The court imposed an asset freeze, not just on the company, but on those individuals. "Piercing the corporate veil" has already happened. Eventually, there will be partial refunds from whatever assets the FTC can find. This is a more severe action than the FTC usually takes.  It's not just "cease and desist".

This is a routine action by the FTC for "mail/online order company took money and didn't deliver".  It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  The FTC does this regularly to sleazy mail and online order companies, which is why, when you order stuff online, it almost always shows up, even from little businesses with no reputation.
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September 23, 2014, 06:28:53 PM
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This is a routine action by the FTC for "mail/online order company took money and didn't deliver".  It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  The FTC does this regularly to sleazy mail and online order companies, which is why, when you order stuff online, it almost always shows up, even from little businesses with no reputation.

It has a lot to do with Bitcoin from the perspective of a regulator.  BFL was advertised heavily and promoted on this forum and the advertising income was most likely never reported, at one point the Bitcoin Foundation (Gavin) said he believe the problems with BFL were just technical issues (I almost ordered when he said that in early 2013), and it appears BFL operates Bitcoinmining.com and made that video which is linked from bitcoin.org. 

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September 23, 2014, 06:40:51 PM
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Good news just keeps rolling in today!
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September 23, 2014, 06:50:06 PM
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Im so glad I never shelled out the cash to buy a BFL miner. I was convinving everyone I knew that I could double their money in less than 90 days when asics first came out.... I would be owing them now  Embarrassed

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September 23, 2014, 07:22:19 PM
 #12

and welcome here:



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September 23, 2014, 07:45:04 PM
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is sonny's probation still active, as this case will definetly be another strike against his name

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September 23, 2014, 07:47:44 PM
 #14

miner nightmares

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September 23, 2014, 08:06:19 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2014, 09:32:17 PM by Kluge
 #15

Mined bitcoin, now mined for bitchcoin. Cry
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September 23, 2014, 09:28:53 PM
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Im so glad I never shelled out the cash to buy a BFL miner. I was convinving everyone I knew that I could double their money in less than 90 days when asics first came out.... I would be owing them now  Embarrassed

You received a lot more then double your money if you ordered the 60gh units early on. Downhill after that though.
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September 23, 2014, 09:31:19 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2014, 10:02:35 PM by ibminer
 #17

Between the PayPal deal, BFL getting shutdown and BTC spiking.....


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September 24, 2014, 12:27:29 AM
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This is a routine action by the FTC for "mail/online order company took money and didn't deliver".  It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  The FTC does this regularly to sleazy mail and online order companies, which is why, when you order stuff online, it almost always shows up, even from little businesses with no reputation.

It has a lot to do with Bitcoin from the perspective of a regulator.  BFL was advertised heavily and promoted on this forum and the advertising income was most likely never reported, at one point the Bitcoin Foundation (Gavin) said he believe the problems with BFL were just technical issues (I almost ordered when he said that in early 2013), and it appears BFL operates Bitcoinmining.com and made that video which is linked from bitcoin.org. 
I would say that Gavin likely did not know the extent that BFL was mining pre-ordered devices, as it was reported by BFL they were having technical issues developing the machines when in reality they were making a lot of money from the machines being built.

AFAIK theymos files taxes on behalf of the forum and I would assume he would pay taxes on behalf of the forum for any ad revenue received
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September 24, 2014, 01:10:55 AM
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This is a routine action by the FTC for "mail/online order company took money and didn't deliver".  It has nothing to do with Bitcoin.  The FTC does this regularly to sleazy mail and online order companies, which is why, when you order stuff online, it almost always shows up, even from little businesses with no reputation.

It has a lot to do with Bitcoin from the perspective of a regulator.  BFL was advertised heavily and promoted on this forum and the advertising income was most likely never reported, at one point the Bitcoin Foundation (Gavin) said he believe the problems with BFL were just technical issues (I almost ordered when he said that in early 2013), and it appears BFL operates Bitcoinmining.com and made that video which is linked from bitcoin.org. 
I would say that Gavin likely did not know the extent that BFL was mining pre-ordered devices, as it was reported by BFL they were having technical issues developing the machines when in reality they were making a lot of money from the machines being built.

AFAIK theymos files taxes on behalf of the forum and I would assume he would pay taxes on behalf of the forum for any ad revenue received

It is hard to say who knew what at the Foundation but it is their job to know as they say their mission is to promote Bitcoin.  They received numerous complaints that is for sure. 

As for the money collected by the forum for the ads hopefully some of those funds can be recovered and used to repay some of the victims.  I have seen all kinds of discussion about collecting revenue from ads but I have never seen any discussion of cashing in those Bitcoins to pay the taxes.  Someone has to pay those agencies that are shutting down BFL so the people who run the forum should pay their fair share instead of pushing the costs off on others.


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September 24, 2014, 01:17:01 AM
 #20

and welcome here:



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As much as I would like to see Josh and his scumbag partners from BFL end up in prison I doubt it will actually happen. I don't think they broke any criminal laws (only consumer protection laws).
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