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Author Topic: Paypal will now look after BTC price - bullish  (Read 3026 times)
BitCoinNutJob
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September 23, 2014, 10:30:31 PM
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Im of the belief paypal will keep everything nicely controlled from this point on, they have the ability to shift BTC to a very high price with such a huge network of customers.  We are talking 5 figure type prices if BTC goes into the main customer wallets like USD or EURO quite easily - just add their amount of customers divide BTC available etc.

"With 190 countries, 17 currencies and 150 million accounts worldwide"

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/CrossBorderHowToPrintable-outside

So lets think...

1.)If a fraction of these people had 1 btc in their account at any point the price would be through the roof.  Has to right we all agree on that at least?

2.)Paypal for some reason are keen to use BTC why is this? because they need the btc economy so much?..... hmmm doubt it - basically not that.  Because its more profitable and efficient for them to use BTC vs fiat... bingo.  It also means they can branch out to the unbanked - perfect timing with mobile payment stuff.  

3.)Paypal will nudge all their customers towards BTC for reasons in #2


So...to summarize paypal love BTC they arent just goofing off and they arent just doing us all a favor, they are serious about BTC.
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September 23, 2014, 10:36:40 PM
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Nut job seems like the correct user name for you.

Are you just trying to hype this, or are you that clueless?
BitCoinNutJob
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September 23, 2014, 10:39:27 PM
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Nut job seems like the correct user name for you.

Are you just trying to hype this, or are you that clueless?

Explain why im wrong without personal attacks/insults and i might actually listen.  Or are you just here to talk smack?
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September 23, 2014, 11:47:33 PM
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I don't know about just paypal, but big financial players will have more and more control from now on, rather than nerds on this forum.

BrewCrewFan
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September 23, 2014, 11:53:25 PM
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I don't know about just paypal, but big financial players will have more and more control from now on, rather than nerds on this forum.


Hey now, I trust nerds more than big financial players, for they will lie as much as legally possible to screw over the next guy to make the quick buck.

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BitCoinNutJob
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September 23, 2014, 11:57:17 PM
 #6

With big players interested the price has to go up long term,  Before with just a few nerds it was just potential. You think PayPal will let BTC die when they spent 2 months incorporating what they've done so far - no chance.

PayPal also have their reputation on the line.
spiderbrain
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September 24, 2014, 12:57:31 AM
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Hey now, I trust nerds more than big financial players, for they will lie as much as legally possible to screw over the next guy to make the quick buck.
I'm not saying it's good, just that it's happening!

WhatTheGox
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September 24, 2014, 01:00:42 AM
 #8

I don't know about just paypal, but big financial players will have more and more control from now on, rather than nerds on this forum.

Nerds are smarter though, in the end the nerds will have the power.
RyNinDaCleM
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September 24, 2014, 01:53:06 AM
 #9

With big players interested the price has to go up long term,  Before with just a few nerds it was just potential. You think PayPal will let BTC die when they spent 2 months incorporating what they've done so far - no chance.

PayPal also have their reputation on the line.

Yes, but PP is not going to prop up the price so everyone else can get rich. BTC at $1 spends the same, so it makes no difference to them what the exchange rate is.

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September 24, 2014, 04:12:57 AM
 #10

With big players interested the price has to go up long term,  Before with just a few nerds it was just potential. You think PayPal will let BTC die when they spent 2 months incorporating what they've done so far - no chance.

PayPal also have their reputation on the line.

Yes, but PP is not going to prop up the price so everyone else can get rich. BTC at $1 spends the same, so it makes no difference to them what the exchange rate is.

While I follow your EW chart thread with intrest, your statement above is incorrect.

If all 21 million coins were in existence right now, only 21 million coins could move every 10 minutes x (pick your minimum confirmations). There is a lower bound value based on the number of coins traded x their value.

So $1 BTC does not spend the same as $1000 Btc

I am not the chart reader that you are, but if you look at bitstamp's weekly chart during the height of the last rise, it looks like 200,000 coins were traded in a week. 200,000/ 7 days /24 hours = 1190 coins traded per hour,  requiring six confirmations to alleviate a double spend. Bitstamp moved 1190 coins per hour. If the coins were not "worth " $1100, there would have to had have been much greater volume. i.e. 10% of all coins (in existenceat the time) if they were worth $1.

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September 24, 2014, 04:29:02 AM
 #11

With big players interested the price has to go up long term,  Before with just a few nerds it was just potential. You think PayPal will let BTC die when they spent 2 months incorporating what they've done so far - no chance.

PayPal also have their reputation on the line.

Yes, but PP is not going to prop up the price so everyone else can get rich. BTC at $1 spends the same, so it makes no difference to them what the exchange rate is.

While I follow your EW chart thread with intrest, your statement above is incorrect.

If all 21 million coins were in existence right now, only 21 million coins could move every 10 minutes x (pick your minimum confirmations). There is a lower bound value based on the number of coins traded x their value.

So $1 BTC does not spend the same as $1000 Btc

I am not the chart reader that you are, but if you look at bitstamp's weekly chart during the height of the last rise, it looks like 200,000 coins were traded in a week. 200,000/ 7 days /24 hours = 1190 coins traded per hour,  requiring six confirmations to alleviate a double spend. Bitstamp moved 1190 coins per hour. If the coins were not "worth " $1100, there would have to had have been much greater volume. i.e. 10% of all coins (in existenceat the time) if they were worth $1.



I get what you are saying, but I wasn't meaning that 21 people could go buy $1M yachts at the same time with $1 BTC. Just that a BTC is a BTC whether it goes for $1 or $1,000,000.
The speed would absolutely be slower, but not necessarily dead. The actual use case could very well be covered by $100/BTC at this time, if I had to guess.

Just for the record, those 200k coins weren't moved every trade either. Some were, sure, but many (most?) would stay right there (=no tx on the blockchain) waiting for the time to sell them again.

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September 24, 2014, 05:34:04 AM
 #12

Propping up the price in any way would probably be more expensive than it was worth. It is almost always cheaper to just let price discovery alone than to manipulate the market.

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September 24, 2014, 06:00:01 AM
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While I follow your EW chart thread with intrest, your statement above is incorrect.

If all 21 million coins were in existence right now, only 21 million coins could move every 10 minutes x (pick your minimum confirmations). There is a lower bound value based on the number of coins traded x their value.

So $1 BTC does not spend the same as $1000 Btc

I am not the chart reader that you are, but if you look at bitstamp's weekly chart during the height of the last rise, it looks like 200,000 coins were traded in a week. 200,000/ 7 days /24 hours = 1190 coins traded per hour,  requiring six confirmations to alleviate a double spend. Bitstamp moved 1190 coins per hour. If the coins were not "worth " $1100, there would have to had have been much greater volume. i.e. 10% of all coins (in existenceat the time) if they were worth $1.



I get what you are saying, but I wasn't meaning that 21 people could go buy $1M yachts at the same time with $1 BTC. Just that a BTC is a BTC whether it goes for $1 or $1,000,000.
The speed would absolutely be slower, but not necessarily dead. The actual use case could very well be covered by $100/BTC at this time, if I had to guess.

Just for the record, those 200k coins weren't moved every trade either. Some were, sure, but many (most?) would stay right there (=no tx on the blockchain) waiting for the time to sell them again.

If the speed is slow enough then BTC is dead.  Hence $1 BTC is not useful.  Would you say that the market is speculatively propped up from this $100 use case as described? Or is it that the amount of coins in circulation multiplied by the current value is the useful value of the network?

Since the markets, as your described, do not represent useful bitcoin transactions, what metric should we use to discuss the amount of useful bitcoin in a set time period? 
BitCoinNutJob
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September 24, 2014, 09:32:54 AM
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Yes, but PP is not going to prop up the price so everyone else can get rich. BTC at $1 spends the same, so it makes no difference to them what the exchange rate is.

Not directly but yes i think the knock on effect as paypal get more involved they will be more interested in people using bitcoin and this = price higher.  5 billion market cap cant work with all Paypal customers transacting can it ?

I dont think $1 btc would sustain without btc dying now either so i have to respectfully but firmly disagree but my mind is open Smiley

Quote
Propping up the price in any way would probably be more expensive than it was worth. It is almost always cheaper to just let price discovery alone than to manipulate the market.

Again not directly but yes i think they will be concerned on price and BTC economy and they have the network power to invest to improve both.  Doesnt mean they are on bitstamp with a 50k BTC buy order @ $350 Grin
CryptoCarmen
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September 24, 2014, 10:43:53 AM
 #15

Paypal will eat bitcoin holders alive.
We should all ban paypal!
zimmah
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September 24, 2014, 02:00:46 PM
 #16

Im of the belief paypal will keep everything nicely controlled from this point on, they have the ability to shift BTC to a very high price with such a huge network of customers.  We are talking 5 figure type prices if BTC goes into the main customer wallets like USD or EURO quite easily - just add their amount of customers divide BTC available etc.

not everyone who uses paypal will buy bitcoin immediately.

and even those who do, will probably not buy a lot.
Asrael999
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September 24, 2014, 02:10:34 PM
 #17

Nut job seems like the correct user name for you.

Are you just trying to hype this, or are you that clueless?

Explain why im wrong without personal attacks/insults and i might actually listen.  Or are you just here to talk smack?

Paypal do not care about the value of the bitcoin or price stability as they do not care whether you use their portal and pay with fiat, or with bitcoin. In fact given that they are not the bitcoin payment processor - they are using coinbase and bitpay and gocoin, - they would probably prefer you continue to use fiat as they will make more money that way. Its a for profit company with shareholders after all.
I imagine they are using all three bitcoin payment processors as they are having a beauty parade before they decide which one to buy. Once they have bought one (or stolen enough ideas to build their own) then you might see an active push by Paypal towards bitcoin.
However that in and of itself will not be enough to boost adoption, the thing that will boost adoption, is that if/when the cost savings available to consumers created by bitcoin are actually passed on to the consumers. This is not currently happening, and until it does there is no incentive for the general population to adopt.
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September 24, 2014, 02:25:19 PM
 #18

Lots of idiots in here. You should have just kept your thoughts to yourself OP, these people are smart enough to understand and no matter what you say will convince them otherwise. Let them lose money, and pass on the opportunity of a lifetime. It is not our job to make these people wealthy.
BitCoinNutJob
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September 24, 2014, 09:22:59 PM
 #19

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not everyone who uses paypal will buy bitcoin immediately.

and even those who do, will probably not buy a lot.


"With 190 countries, 17 currencies and 150 million accounts worldwide"

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/general/CrossBorderHowToPrintable-outside

So lets think...

1.)If a fraction of these people had 1 btc in their account at any point the price would be through the roof.  Has to right we all agree on that at least.

2.)Paypal for some reason are keen to use BTC why is this? because they need the btc economy so much?..... hmmm doubt it - basically not that.  Because its more profitable and efficient for them to use BTC vs fiat... bingo.  It also means they can branch out to the unbanked - perfect timing with mobile payment stuff.  

3.)Paypal will nudge all their customers towards BTC for reasons in #2


So...to summarize paypal love BTC they arent just goofing off and they arent just doing us all a favor, they are serious about BTC.
BitCoinNutJob
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September 24, 2014, 09:24:17 PM
 #20

Lots of idiots in here. You should have just kept your thoughts to yourself OP, these people are smart enough to understand and no matter what you say will convince them otherwise. Let them lose money, and pass on the opportunity of a lifetime. It is not our job to make these people wealthy.

 Grin

but I'd rather these guys get rich vs baby boomers.
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