I'm going to warn you guys one last time.

[brg444]

At least you can buy food with dollars & gold... At the current moment you can't even buy anything worth anything with bitcoin! Even food is a hassle to buy with BTC. It needs to get easier! MUCH EASIER!!! Before the masses start to use bitcoin! GLTA!

 

take a minute to watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndshbH3qZ6Y

[NotLambchop]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

[NotLambchop]

Fiat money is an awful long-term store of value, that's how and why it works.

FTFY

Modern money = BTC

Fiat is so 2001

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/12/23/fear-not-deflation/
http://mises.org/daily/3231

only when you have read these will we be able to discuss the subject on equal terms, sheep.

[NotLambchop]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

[NotLambchop]

...
Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/12/23/fear-not-deflation/
http://mises.org/daily/3231

only when you have read these will we be able to discuss the subject on equal terms, sheep.

Lol @ mises.org  That's like learning history from stormfront.org

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Wrong, it is the theory agreed upon by neo-Keynesians working hand in hand with central banks.

Your education is flawed. You are blinded with ego and refuse to even consider your mistake.

I challenge you to read the paper linked at the mises website and refute anything said in there.

How ironic of you to dismiss the mises website and quote the platitudes of wikipedia.

You can do better than that I'm sure.

[lyth0s]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Well your sources are top notch. I also hate it when I deficit spend my Bitcoins, I can completely imagine how all my bitcoin debt could collapse the economy under the weight of deflation...

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Well your sources are top notch. I also hate it when I deficit spend my Bitcoins, I can completely imagine how all my bitcoin debt could collapse the economy under the weight of deflation...

logic, he does not speak it

[NotLambchop]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Well your sources are top notch. I also hate it when I deficit spend my Bitcoins, I can completely imagine how all my bitcoin debt could collapse the economy under the weight of deflation...

My dear lyth0s!  You misunderstand my role in this thread.  I'm here to edify, not to defend a doctorate.  The link provided is an introductory economics text for my wayward young charge, brg444.
Not a citation.

Enjoy your evening.

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again  

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Well your sources are top notch. I also hate it when I deficit spend my Bitcoins, I can completely imagine how all my bitcoin debt could collapse the economy under the weight of deflation...

My dear lyth0s!  You misunderstand my role in this thread.  I'm here to edify, not to defend a doctorate.  The link provided is an introductory economics text for my wayward young charge, brg444.
Not a citation.

Enjoy your evening.

It is unfortunate "introduction to economics" is a far as you bothered reading

[NotLambchop]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).  In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

this myth again 

Huffed Mop & Glo instead of getting brainwashed in school, huh?
Ain't no foolin' a bright feller like you!

please please, entertain me with your deflation is bad theory and how it applies to Bitcoin

It is not my theory, it is a theory agreed upon by the majority of grownups.
As much as the egalitarian in me wishes to provide you with the education you so clearly lack, the Good Book warns me about casting my pearls before swine.
I'll compromise with a quote from wikip:

"Economists generally believe that deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

Now go and play.

Wrong, it is the theory agreed upon by neo-Keynesians working hand in hand with central banks.
...

Impressionable children watching "Money As Debt" on YouTube and suddenly their latent daddy issues galvanize into this wacky sillyness

[brg444]

Impressionable children watching "Money As Debt" on YouTube and suddenly their latent daddy issues galvanize into this wacky sillyness

I take it you are unable to defend your position.

Fair enough.

[Melbustus]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

I'm talking about an improvement on both. I understand full well that the branch of monetary economics most popular with governments over the past 100yrs or so has considered an elastic money supply to be beneficial. I also understand why in some depth (econ degree (which should make me naturally hate bitcoin, right?)). The math is indeed enticing, and does work in constrained environments. If central banks (ie, the handful of people running them) always operated with absolute perfection, in near-ideal academic circumstances, there'd be a strong argument for that being the better path (and there would still be strong counterarguments).

But there are baser problems. CBs don't react fast enough, don't have perfect information, are influenced by politics whether they're officially "independent" or not, often have multiple competing mandates, and operate in a literally chaotic mathematical system *as if* the system they're actually manipulating is fully describable by a simple linear relationship. So, arguably, the effect is that while they may smooth medium-term business cycles in non-outlier cases, they create far bigger instability, which, while appearing less often than the natural ups and downs of the business cycle (also debatable), have potentially high-impact outcomes that could lead to longer-term systemic problems, and in the worst case, geopolitical issues; ie, war.

The knee-jerk "deflation is bad crowd" (thanks for the wikipedia link, how helpful) often doesn't realize that their arguments often hinge on an underlying assumption that the *overall* *longrun* money supply dynamics have an inflationary bias, and are not known to, or predictable by, all economic participants. Thus, when some shock *does* create a deflationary moment, it gets exacerbated by economic actors who freak out because they (correctly) realize that they should take this brief opportunity to hoard. IFF the money supply dynamics were *perfectly* known to all economic participants, inflationary, deflationary, whatever - just known - everyone would be able to allocate against that backdrop, and the "what if" feedback loop wouldn't form with such ferocity. It's the same equation, where you put the elasticity doesn't matter in the long-run. Thus, the other considerations above should be given more weight.

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).

Mostly the vice-versa part, but moving on...

In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  
Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

The amount spent on mining will ultimately be slightly less than the amount of transaction fees generated by the network. If bitcoin becomes a high-volume system (see Gavin's latest scalability roadmap), transaction fees can stay low relative to transaction size and still keep the network secure. The cost spent on mining would be completely acceptable and rational.

[brg444]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

I'm talking about an improvement on both. I understand full well that the branch of monetary economics most popular with governments over the past 100yrs or so has considered an elastic money supply to be beneficial. I also understand why in some depth (econ degree (which should make me naturally hate bitcoin, right?)). The math is indeed enticing, and does work in constrained environments. If central banks (ie, the handful of people running them) always operated with absolute perfection, in near-ideal academic circumstances, there'd be a strong argument for that being the better path (and there would still be strong counterarguments).

But there are baser problems. CBs don't react fast enough, don't have perfect information, are influenced by politics whether they're officially "independent" or not, often have multiple competing mandates, and operate in a literally chaotic mathematical system *as if* the system they're actually manipulating is fully describable by a simple linear relationship. So, arguably, the effect is that while they may smooth medium-term business cycles in non-outlier cases, they create far bigger instability, which, while appearing less often than the natural ups and downs of the business cycle (also debatable), have potentially high-impact outcomes that could lead to longer-term systemic problems, and in the worst case, geopolitical issues; ie, war.

The knee-jerk "deflation is bad crowd" (thanks for the wikipedia link, how helpful) often doesn't realize that their arguments often hinge on an underlying assumption that the *overall* *longrun* money supply dynamics have an inflationary bias, and are not known to, or predictable by, all economic participants. Thus, when some shock *does* create a deflationary moment, it gets exacerbated by economic actors who freak out because they (correctly) realize that they should take this brief opportunity to hoard. IFF the money supply dynamics were *perfectly* known to all economic participants, inflationary, deflationary, whatever - just known - everyone would be able to allocate against that backdrop, and the "what if" feedback loop wouldn't form with such ferocity. It's the same equation, where you put the elasticity doesn't matter in the long-run. Thus, the other considerations above should be given more weight.

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).

Mostly the vice-versa part, but moving on...

In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  
Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

The amount spent on mining will ultimately be slightly less than the amount of transaction fees generated by the network. If bitcoin becomes a high-volume system (see Gavin's latest scalability roadmap), transaction fees can stay low relative to transaction size and still keep the network secure. The cost spent on mining would be completely acceptable and rational.

+1

[NotLambchop]

@Melbustus:
You're talking about an improvement on gold, not fiat.  Controlling the money supply is a useful property of fiat, a tool not available with Bitcoin.
TL;DR:  Deflation is not "a good thing."  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

I'm talking about an improvement on both. I understand full well that the branch of monetary economics most popular with governments over the past 100yrs or so has considered an elastic money supply to be beneficial. I also understand why in some depth (econ degree (which should make me naturally hate bitcoin, right?)). The math is indeed enticing, and does work in constrained environments. If central banks (ie, the handful of people running them) always operated with absolute perfection, in near-ideal academic circumstances, there'd be a strong argument for that being the better path (and there would still be strong counterarguments).

But there are baser problems. CBs don't react fast enough, don't have perfect information, are influenced by politics whether they're officially "independent" or not, often have multiple competing mandates, and operate in a literally chaotic mathematical system *as if* the system they're actually manipulating is fully describable by a simple linear relationship. So, arguably, the effect is that while they may smooth medium-term business cycles in non-outlier cases, they create far bigger instability, which, while appearing less often than the natural ups and downs of the business cycle (also debatable), have potentially high-impact outcomes that could lead to longer-term systemic problems, and in the worst case, geopolitical issues; ie, war.

The knee-jerk "deflation is bad crowd" (thanks for the wikipedia link, how helpful) often doesn't realize that their arguments often hinge on an underlying assumption that the *overall* *longrun* money supply dynamics have an inflationary bias, and are not known to, or predictable by, all economic participants. Thus, when some shock *does* create a deflationary moment, it gets exacerbated by economic actors who freak out because they (correctly) realize that they should take this brief opportunity to hoard. IFF the money supply dynamics were *perfectly* known to all economic participants, inflationary, deflationary, whatever - just known - everyone would be able to allocate against that backdrop, and the "what if" feedback loop wouldn't form with such ferocity. It's the same equation, where you put the elasticity doesn't matter in the long-run. Thus, the other considerations above should be given more weight.

Sure, this argument has been presented, on this very forum, many times.  Mostly without the "I haz a degree" tacked on for emphasis.  The onus of proof is usually on the one cutting against the grain, breaking with the conventional wisdom.  No proof was ever offered.

At this point, Bitcoin's inflation rate is way higher than USD--that's what mined coin is.  Bitcoin supply will continue to inflate throughout our lifetime.
As was pointed out by Satoshi, the price of Bitcoin tends to the cost of mining it (and vice versa).

Mostly the vice-versa part, but moving on...

In other words, the price of producing one bitcoin tends to the cost of producing it.  This means that if Bitcoin ever becomes substantially more valuable, the value dumped into mining it will proportionally increase.  
Do you think that ~10% of the world's wealth is going into maintaining today's fiat "ledger" every year?

The amount spent on mining will ultimately be slightly less than the amount of transaction fees generated by the network. If bitcoin becomes a high-volume system (see Gavin's latest scalability roadmap), transaction fees can stay low relative to transaction size and still keep the network secure. The cost spent on mining would be completely acceptable and rational.

I'm not talking about what will happen "ultimately."  Ultimately the universe will die, I'm interested with what happens in the interim.
What would happen if Bitcoin did become a world currency in our lifetime?  Right now, we're generating around 10% of all BTC every year.  Forgetting for a moment that this makes Bitcoin the most inflationary of currencies, imagine 10% of the world's total wealth being dumped into BTC mining!  Literally, willingly destroyed.  Just to keep, as you put it, "a ledger."

And no, you can not keep the network secure with "relatively low transaction fees."  What does "relatively small" even mean?  The threat to the network doesn't diminish once the block rewards are smaller.  On the contrary, the threat will grow with BTC market cap.  Mining today is done for rewards, not tx fees.  The hashrate is still growing.
What do you suppose will happen to all this hashpower once block rewards vanish?

*edited.

[brg444]

What do you suppose will happen to all this hashpower once block rewards vanish?

*edited.

when block rewards vanish it will be year 2140.

at this point either BTC is dead or has taken over the world.

considering the latter alternative I would bet on transactions fees being enough to substain the mining network

[romerun]

It's holding strong above $340, I think we are safe now

[NotLambchop]

What do you suppose will happen to all this hashpower once block rewards vanish?

*edited.

when block rewards vanish it will be year 2140.
...

Until that happy day, let's stop it with "Bitcoin is deflationary" bullshit.  At the current rate of ~10%, it's quite the opposite

@romerun:  You've been safe all the way down from 1k.