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Author Topic: [GUIDE] B's A More Ethical & Trustworthy Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide  (Read 28786 times)
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October 24, 2014, 06:20:21 PM
 #41

  More and more reasons not to buy Technobit.

I have not received a single board yet.  Waiting on 25 boards.


Where any boards shipped out this week?  I didn't get my usual email from DHL that a package was being delivered...  Still waiting on 67 more boards plus 1 rma.

second week of no boards delivered. still waiting for 67 more boards.

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October 28, 2014, 10:06:52 AM
Last edit: October 29, 2014, 01:13:31 PM by Bicknellski
 #42

Technobit why you still no answer?

Technobit is failing to provide critical information yet again on shipping. Same pattern as previously stated last year by many who were burned.



Thanks Vesi, but my question specifically asked where you are in the queue,  and how you were handling the queue.  Are you almost done with batch 1 orders?



I appreciate Marto's and technobit's intention to provide an open,  transparent process.  This question should be easy to answer.  Could you answer it please?

We note that being polite doesn't get your answer any faster no matter the claims from Technobit to the contrary.

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October 28, 2014, 10:10:17 AM
 #43

 Minersource is often a black hole for emails.
 Black Arrow puts out questionable quality X-3 even after long delays.

As many have noted emails and correspondence with Minersource is usually all miss no hit some support late in the day is not enough to make them trustworthy at this stage. Avoid Minersource and Black Arrow at all costs.

I put a PSU from another unit in that machine, and it reads alarm/fault - and the psu that shot sparks out works fine in a different unit.

So i've concluded that rather just being a power supply - it's the actual miner.  anyone know how to reset the bugger

I would start by looking at the backplane caps, and removing them if they look like they've failed.

If no help is to be had there, I would then remove all but one of the hashing modules from the backplane and see if it will start up like that.  If so, reconnect another, etc, and see if you can isolate one of them that pisses it off.

Did just that.  It worked.  Found a dead module.  Another module has 1 dead chip and 1 live chip.  So I've asked BlackArrow to send out a few replacement boards and I'll just swap the heatsinks over.  Let's see if they will do that.   I'd contact MinerSource, but since they don't respond to emails, private messages and they cancelled their phone number, I'm not sure how to get a hold of them.

Update: while MS normally has not responded promptly, I got a response about the faulty hashboard and he said that they have replacements.  So perhaps there is some light in all of this.

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October 30, 2014, 12:06:40 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2014, 08:33:47 AM by Bicknellski
 #44

And on and on and on.

Rinse and repeat fraud by Technobit.

Vesi,

Any word on the AMD brackets ?

up
HI,
Yours will be out today.
For others we'll put a product on the website with 0 price and no transport costs , you just have to provide your hex4m order ref

Regards: Vesi

Vesi,


No brackets have arrived yet ??
Can you check if everything was send out correctly pls..

Thanks.

No brackets or chip received yet. !! its been almost 3 weeks now..

Technobit with RMA's on top of delays.

Vesi,

Where to send the defective board? To same adress as RMA?
Could you plz send me PM with details?

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October 30, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2014, 09:03:51 AM by Bicknellski
 #45

Shakes head. Still no love from Technobit for some customers.



I appreciate Marto's and technobit's intention to provide an open,  transparent process.  This question should be easy to answer.  Could you answer it please?

Hello? How far behind are you guys, exactly?  Is there any way to get specific information on our orders?

After 4 months you should know the answer is no.

STILL AWAITING ORDER:

XXXXXXXXXXX

2 x TL-MR3020 router

2014-07-15    

107,40€

PD PayPal + Extra Fee    Payment accepted

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November 01, 2014, 08:15:46 AM
Last edit: November 01, 2014, 08:42:04 AM by Bicknellski
 #46

  SP20's slip and SPTech offers compensation.

So we see that for the first time SPTech has slipped on a delivery deadline but is offering compensation. In the past compensation was offered to missed technical specifications but that compensation was offered in October after shipments made in August. Given the honesty and direct nature of the Guy and the SPTech I think consumers are still well protected if you are still buying mining equipment from SPTech. Price and ROI are still the biggest worry for all customers in the current depressed market. This is a thumbs up and thumbs down situation so it is an over all push on reliability.

Edit: Guy responds immediately to when the compensation processing will start. This team is on top of communications as always.

You mean about the fact that 3 days prior to their shipping deadline they had no clue if they could ship or not? ...
We're working through the weekend to meet the October shipping deadline.
The reasons for the last minute shipping are numerous and has also very much to do with unauthorized strikes in Israel sea ports, see for example here.
It happens also in previous months, we had to ask the carrier to change route, deliver to cypress and fly the parts into Israel.
We're going through hoops to make sure the entire material needed for production arrives on time. It's an enormous, challenging task.
Right now we're producing the SP20 and we'll ship them after the proper burn-in tests in Flextronics. It might be slipped to the beginning of next week. If this will be the case, we'll compensate.

Guy

The production of the SP20 is slipping into the beginning of the next week. We are working hard to make sure all units are shipped by Monday.
We will offer a BTC compensation for lost mining time.

Compensation and ship all SP20s by Monday.

First real slip in timeline we've seen. But with compensation I suspect customers will be happy at least in that regard. How long for compensation?


During November. We'll contact SP20 customers and ask for wallets addresses.

SP31s ship on time and arriving at customers doors.

My SP31 is out for delivery, and it just shipped 1.5 days ago, that's pretty fast!

I have ordered every Spondoolies-Tech Product that they has shipped so far, and every order has arrived within the time frame promised.    Customer service has been excellent!

I will continue to be a customer on future products, their pre-sales and post-sales customer service and honesty cannot be touched, and their products are rock solid.

Thanks Spondoolies-Tech team, keep up the great work!   Looking forward to hearing more about the next-gen!!

Shipping units fairly quickly is a positive sign as well.

Seeing the level of communication provided by SP in this thread makes me want to order some hardware.  What are the lead times for orders placed this week or next?
SP20 - less than a week
SP35 - one month

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November 01, 2014, 08:28:27 AM
Last edit: November 01, 2014, 08:55:05 AM by Bicknellski
 #47

 Former customers warn people off Avalon re-branding even with a paid spokesman assurance they have changed.

There is certainly been no reasonable explanation or apologies from Avalon or the executives and paid spokesman for this new company as to what happened with regards to chips and the millions in dollars in damages it caused the community. There is certainly no reason to purchase from Avalon or Avalon re-branded given the unlikelihood their products will fail to come close to ROI or break even for miners. Nothing at this stage is really going to break even so waiting for products that are likely even worse than existing products is simply not a good strategy. If you are still buying there are others delivering right now. No need to wait on Avalon gear if you are still engaged in mining ASICMINER, BITMAINTECH and SPONDOOLIESTECH are your best and only real options currently.

Avoid this scam company....new name does not make the past disappear.

F YOU scammers - reimburse people for your crap from last year. otherwise gtfo

2btc/TH ?
only chips?

omg, too much Smiley

whats wrong with that? By the time you build a PCB, receive chips, and assemble the entire thing you'll have a device that costs only 3BTC/TH by late october!

It is November... anything in the wild besides the fubar version by Technobit that will certainly ship to you with significant delays?

F YOU scammers - reimburse people for your crap from last year. otherwise gtfo

You are supposed to forgive them now...it is different this time  Cool

f*ck yifu and his shady bs outfit. scammer for life. he can shove his tech up his as* until he reimburses what he stole

Bitsyncom(Yifu Guo) have left Avalon project, right now the Avalon project running by Canaan Creative, Ltd., (founded by     ngzhang) Locate Beijing China.

Even though Yifu has left Avalon (Canaan Creative or whatever) all other particpants like ngzhang are responsible for the Scam of last year!  Angry

Avoid by all means! Scam!

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November 02, 2014, 06:06:39 AM
 #48

 Black Arrow continues to disappoint.

We have seen a number of companies do this. Fail to deliver and move on to the next chip with 100s or 1000s of unhappy customers still waiting for product. Black Arrow is a company that should be shut down and their executives brought to trial.


^^^ lol

But.... seeing as I took delivery of an X1 earlier this month it looks like I'll (allegedly) be missing out on a X1.5.

That's good. People who ordered after me get a more powerful product.
Feeling the love here  Undecided

I ordered a year ago and have gotten nothing. No X3, no X1s. Now they talk about 14nm. What a joke. If they get one single preorder then i will have seriously lost faith in human intelligence.

My definition of a scam company is one that takes money from customers by deceiving them then, fails to provide anything of value in return.

Black Arrow's own contradictory words proves they are liars and covers the deception angle. I've received nothing of value in return for the money I paid almost a year ago, so there you go.

We have a proven scam company actively soliciting a million dollars+ from potential investors for vapour-ware miners made from Samsung wont give you 14nm in a month from now you fucking clowns ASICs.

Not to mention violating every consumer protection law in the book, mail fraud and tax evasion on the $90,000 in coins they mined.

To any potential investor I can guarantee they're going to be so in your face with the tens if not more millions of dollars they'll make off your investment while giving absolutely nothing in return for your cool mil. In-fact I wouldn't be surprised if they've even figured out a way to leave you with a bill to pay when all is said and done, you know just for that little extra bit of spite.


well, they sold these based on promises that they are not keeping.

they are violating consumer laws all over the world.

fraud?  as far as I'm concerned no doubt about it.  a company run by a known credit card fraudster that has done nothing but change his game to a new kind of scam as far as I'm concerned.

anyone that sends these people a dime at this point needs a CT scan. 

they failed technically with miners that start on fire, they failed logistically by being unable to develop this or ship this in any sort of reasonable timeframe and they have failed financially, by squandering their customers' money,  they have failed miserably in terms of customer service/relations.

To me it seems that they have failed in every aspect of this project and this business. 

anyone would be better of plunking that money down on the craps table than investing with a  company with a performance record like this.

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November 02, 2014, 01:03:14 PM
 #49

Keep up the nice work...this guide is pretty much spot on.

You should add more companies though...
Bit crane seems legit
Hashra does not seem legit
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November 02, 2014, 01:15:39 PM
 #50

Keep up the nice work...this guide is pretty much spot on.

Absolutely. Shows other "guides" out there to be what they actually are - paid advertisements by manufacturers employees. Good work.

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
Amazon UK BTC payment service - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301229.0 - with FREE delivery!
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November 02, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
Last edit: November 02, 2014, 01:30:07 PM by Bicknellski
 #51

Keep up the nice work...this guide is pretty much spot on.

You should add more companies though...
Bit crane seems legit
Hashra does not seem legit


At this point adding lower volume companies that have little or no comments from paying customers is an issue trying to have more of a customer centered perspective versus the paid review type option here in the forum. I think it is more representative to have customers views obviously. Low volume sellers I don't think is a good option given the higher volume quality, price and support currently available. Suffice to say BitCrane is not very well talked about here in Bitcointalk from customers.

Can you find a lot of responses from customers? BitCrane can't find more than 1 person who purchased from them. Hashra is mess but I will review their thread and see what if anything should be added. Again home mining is not a good way to invest in Bitcoin at this time. So not sure how long this mining section will last anyhow given there is now no way to get a return on buying miners.

But again if you can point me to a large volume of customer reviews I will certainly add those and others.

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November 02, 2014, 01:26:10 PM
 #52

Well home mining is dead for sure...I have free power and can barely turn a profit with used gear. I just do not understand why people still buy retail with a 0 chance of positive ROI. Either way miners are still selling so guides like this are needed.
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November 03, 2014, 04:07:31 PM
Last edit: November 04, 2014, 03:31:57 PM by Bicknellski
 #53

  Black Arrow Fire Sale.

Do not buy new or used. Fire hazard!!!

So this latest unit to burst into flames didn't have the large green electrolytic capacitors and it was "CE" certified with the new PSU?




It seems so.  the guy said he got it on October 31.  That picture looks very much like the pics the first guy posted also.

I fixed the image for you so that it'll load better.

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1739-my-prospero-x3-stop-working-have-image/?p=21070

Quote
Shitaki, on 03 Nov 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:
Are you saying that BOTH of your X-3 modules caught fire?
Quote
robotbtc said: Yes sir BOTH X-3 modules caught fire.


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November 04, 2014, 02:03:52 AM
 #54

Technobit.eu continues to ignore customers questions.

The group buy that minersource and technobit.eu continues to underwhelm customers and the community. Avoid these entities if at all possible.



I appreciate Marto's and technobit's intention to provide an open,  transparent process.  This question should be easy to answer.  Could you answer it please?

Hello? How far behind are you guys, exactly?  Is there any way to get specific information on our orders?

?

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November 04, 2014, 02:15:03 AM
Last edit: November 04, 2014, 03:02:19 AM by Bicknellski
 #55

BFL is circling the drain.

FTC is seeking approval for the transfer of BFL assets so that they can finally start reimbursing all customers that were never compensated adequately by BFL.

BFL gave Lykle de Vries aka SLok bitcoins and miners in compensation for lying for the BFL in Bitcointalk and BFL forums for years. He is a thief and should comply with the FTC order to return assets so customers can be reimbursed what they are owed.

http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.123.0.pdf

ORDER GRANTING MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF TRANSFER PROTOCOL AND
METHODOLOGY FOR TRANSFER OF ASSETS TO COURT CONTROL


This matter is before the Court on the Motion for Approval of Transfer Protocol and
Methodology for Transfer of Assets to Court Control, filed by the Temporary Receiver Eric L.
Johnson (“Temporary Receiver”), on October 29, 2014. Doc. #122. The Court finds that the
Motion should be granted.

The Stipulated Interim Order empowered Temporary Receiver to manage all assets of
BFL and to manage and administer the business of BFL. Doc. #54 at §§ X(B), X(H). The order
also authorized the Temporary Receiver to “begin establishing an adequate cash reserve to cover
potential refund liability. In this respect and under the supervision of Temporary Receiver, the
following actions may occur immediately . . . Conversion of Receivership Defendant’s
substantial bitcoin holdings to cash on a systematic and reasoned basis.” Doc. #54 at § XI(E)(4)

The Stipulated Interim Order requires all parties to “cooperate in transferring
Receivership Defendant’s bitcoins to a Court-controlled bitcoin wallet, under the direction and
supervision of Temporary Receiver. Temporary Receiver may hire independent professionals
and/or contractors, as he deems necessary, to ensure safe and secure transfer of bitcoins.” Doc.
#54 at § XI(C)(5).

IT IS ORDERED that the Temporary Receiver’s proposed Transfer Protocol containing
the methodology for transferring bitcoins held in Receivership Defendant Butterfly Labs Inc.
(BFL)’s Storage Wallet to a Court-controlled bitcoin wallet, Doc. #122 and Ex. A thereto, is
approved.




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November 04, 2014, 03:13:00 AM
Last edit: November 08, 2014, 07:29:58 AM by Bicknellski
 #56

Customers for the Block Erupter Prisma distributed by Phasebird / iAsicminer concerned about late shipments and little communication.

We will need to monitor the situation and this is why I wanted to separate out ASICminer with any entity charged with distribution, which is iAsicminer, and not ASICMiner proper. It is unfortunate this is happening I would like to review more customers comments before changing this companies rating, iASICminer that is.

This is the email we sent Phasebird this morning. Including here to escalate greater transparency for all ASICMiner customers.

Quote
Good morning,
This is Ronald again, it has been nearly a month since our order was placed, and since that point we have not received any replies from you. Keeping tabs on your thread at Bitcointalk shows only one brief reply to the thread acknowledging the delay from Phasebird on October 25th. I had to go to ASICMiner's Facebook page to read friedcat's explanation of the issues with the BE200.

We are extremely disappointed in the lack of professionalism ASICMiner has demonstrated with this product launch, and the lack of communication that typically follows scam pre-orders, not legitimate sales. At nearly 15 BTC per order, you are not dealing with small home miners who have limited funds at risk, or who are only interested in small batches of hardware.

We fully expect an update today via email, and an update to your customers who you owe a response to on your Bitcointalk thread. We likewise fully expect compensation in the form of a partial refund and coupons -if- we decide to do business with you again, although from the irresponsible manner this launch has been handled, that is unlikely.

With a MOQ of 10 miners, and a minimum purchase price of 14.9 BTC, this level of delay is entirely unacceptable. If you are unable to respond to your customers' inquiries today, we will bring the matter up directly with friedcat in an attempt to arbitrate a solution, preferably one which does not attach ASICMiner's name to a product that, at present, entirely lacks customer support or feedback.

This has been a very disappointing experience for us in relation to ASICMiner, and future purchases will likely require the use of an escrow service to keep you honest and communicative, since apparently your priorities lie elsewhere from your hardware sales customers, and if that is the case, then I have to wonder if this is how ASICMiner will treat their investors after the IPO investments are raised.

To help improve our transparency in this exchange, I am going to make this an open letter and include it on the Bitcointalk thread verbatim to this email, but I still expect a reply via email today with regard to our hardware order.

Sincerely,
Ronald (Praeluceo)

This is why you NEVER pre order mining gear... Not sure how many times it needs to be posted for people to let it sink in...

I totally agree Blazedout419, and I do not participate in pre-orders. I have had great success with ASICMiner and Bitmain hardware in the past, both companies have been very straight forward with issuing refunds on delayed hardware, and coupons for loyal customers. The Prisma was not represented to be a pre-order however. The posted shipping date was October 8th, which was right around when we placed our order. The expectation being that this would be like my other purchases from ASICMiner, where the order is placed, and then shipped within the next few days.

Brief
...
Round 1 Sales

Shipping date: 8th October, 2014 to 27th October, 2014
...
General Policy
1. Payment before shipping. The shipping order follows the payment order.

2. No refunds after the generation of tracking numbers.

3. If the corresponding tracking number has not been generated, we provide full refund starting from 27th October.
(The nominal refund amount follows the actual payment method, for example, 1 BTC refund for 1 BTC payment, 4k
USD refund for 4k USD payment)
...
Purchasing Procedure
1. Contact customer service via forum, email, IM or phone.
2. Fill the order details in the form provided by the customer service. (name/address/zip code/phone/email)
3. Pay according to the Bitcoin address given by the customer service.
4. Check for the tracking number when we start shipping.
5. Ask for refunds starting from 27th October if the tracking number has not been generated at that time.

However their ship date is now almost a month past, with only one official word from Phasebird, and it didn't articulate what sort of issue they had with the BE200s and their hashing board solution. We sent multiple e-mails to Phasebird when our order didn't ship, we got a re-negotiated ship date (the 15th) which slipped without response, and when the 27th came and went, we requested a status update again, and still no reply. So now I've made our latest inquiry to phasebird public, and subsequent correspondence will be handled directly with ASICMiner.

In the future, it seems that we will have to use escrow services even with previously reputable companies unless they actually have hardware that has already shipped. Batch #1 always gets burned, but for one of 2 ASIC manufacturers that I trust, this has been a terrible experience.

Edit to add this criminal investigation started against Black Arrow in the UK.

Got an update in regard to my fraud case i opened with the police, It's been passed now to thames valley police and things look like they are picking up.

04 November 2014

Dear Mr Kennerley

NFRC141000810656

I’m writing to inform you about the current position of your report.

Experts at the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB) have reviewed the information and have found enough evidence for a possible police investigation. I am pleased to inform you your report has been sent to Thames Valley Police, who have recorded it under: • reference : awaiting local reference number allocation - in process

Thames Valley Police is responsible for any resulting investigation and for providing you with further updates to your report. Their contact details are details:

• Thames Valley Police by email at affect@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk or

• by phone 01865 841148

When you contact Thames Valley Police, please give them your reference number (above).

If you would like more information on how to protect yourself from fraud, there is information

on the Action Fraud website at or you can call them on 0300 123 2040.

Thank you again for taking the time to report and helping us to make the UK a safer place for you and others.

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November 05, 2014, 07:41:46 AM
Last edit: November 08, 2014, 06:16:46 AM by Bicknellski
 #57

Technobit.eu not answering customers emails or posts.

Seems to be an ongoing mess with the operation of many of the Technobit.eu products requiring a lot of hand holding and reworking as well as RMA's. Unlike other fabricators where it is simply plug and play.

I hooked up my 3e miner today and im having some issue's with it..

it can not run on the default clock and voltage settings. it preforming 20 to 50% less than my other 2 and it cant run on lower clock setting like my other 2 miners can.. ?


Technobit.

I still did not recieve an answer to my problem.
Send you an email a week ago, no reply.. !!

And finally a customer gives up trying to get their boards.

I still waiting for technobit to shipped 67 more boards to me.  I would really like to transfer ownership to someone else. I'm asking $12,000 for 67 HEX4M boards, that's 26,800GH. Or make an offer I can't refuse.  BTC preferred, your choice of escrow.  Thank you..

Another ordered in August promised September shipment now November.

Has my order WDCXLFPXA been shipped yet? I placed this order for a HEX16E on the 4th of August, was told about the problems with it and it should be shipped at the end of September. Since then, nothing, not even an reply to my emails. My previous orders arrived ok so why not this one? I want my miner.

Same question again and again and again.

Marto any news when my 25 boards are gonna be shipped

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November 06, 2014, 02:02:48 PM
 #58

  Minersource highly questionable tactics.

There have been many complaints and they still continue to put out dogshit after steaming pile of dogshit excuses for failures.

Pieces of shit and utter liars...

How did your refusal of your miners go? Did it get a rise out of the dickheads at MS?

After refusing the package, which should never have been sent to me, and contacting them several times I received the following template mail. Notice how they didn't even bother to remove the first line and fill in the _<..>_ blanks..  Undecided :


Quote
<ONLY INCLUDE IF THEY CONTACTED YOU; DELETE IF YOU SIMPLY REFUSED A DELIVERY REFUSAL NOTICE: Thank you for contacting us regarding our shipment of your pre-ordered mining equipment.> We understand that you have refused delivery and instructed the shipping company to return the equipment to us. We are sorry that you are unhappy with your order, but we are not able to refund the value of your order if you cancel it. We did our best in a challenging situation to deliver your _<units>__ as quickly as possible, and had even worked with our supplier to add an additional __<X>__ units to your order, free of charge. These additional units were included in the shipment we sent to you. While we appreciate and acknowledge that the wait has been longer than you had hoped, this was a “pre-order” of mining equipment which, according to the terms of purchase posted on our site when you placed your order, is non-refundable if cancelled. Those terms (www.minersource.net/____) explicitly notified buyers that delivery dates were not guaranteed, and that buyers should not rely on them as a factor in making the decision to place an order with us. We will initiate delivery of the shipment to you again at no additional shipping charge within 5 days of the date of this communication unless you provide notice to us in writing that you are not interested in receiving the equipment, in which case we will provide you with in-store credit in the amount of your original purchase, less the shipping fees, instead. Again, we are sorry that this order took so long to fulfil, and encourage you to contact us with any additional questions.

Thomas Salvatore
Head of Logistics
support@minersource.net

I've been very patient the first 6 months after ordering but my patience has turned into anger. All they have to do is send me a refund and it's finished. In the meantime I contacted 3 different consumer organizations and will continue to do everything until I get my $ back.

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Bicknellski
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November 08, 2014, 06:44:20 AM
 #59

 iAsicminer or Asicminer... where does the problem sit right now?

What are customers thinking about iAsicminer and Asicminer and the Block Erupter Prisma at this time?

Seems to be a lot of problems but should we change the rating to THUMBS down for iAsicminer and Asicminer based on these problems or are they working to resolve all these issues customers are having?

I am seeing a lot of mixed messages in the threads. Canary in the Mine group buy for the Block Erupter Prisma seems to working well and there are few issues. As always Canary is on top of his game and gets things out as soon as possible.

Hey Canary -

Thanks for the group buy!

Any thoughts on the current leadtime?  I mean if I were to order today will it be a week out or more still?

TIA!
That's a question for ASICMiner.  They have posted some info regarding shipping delays etc... on their threads. I can tell you that once inventory arrives it's shipped out in the order of payments.
thanks

However there is a lot of chatter and issues with iAsicminer and Phasebird as well as some criticism against Asicminer and FriedCat.

Has anyone heard from FC or Phasebird? I have 4 dead boards and getting NO response from AM, did they finally collapse under the weight of their GIANT heads? 30PH/a month my A$$, ton of garbage boards shipped.

Question is this a Phasebird issue or a direct Asicminer FriedCat issue?

Are they not a different company and Phasebird and iAsicminer are distributors of Asicminer products?

----

How deep does the problem go?

I see that Canary in the Mine has few issue shipping units or am I mistaken?

Is shipping 1 month late?
Are customers going to be compensated?

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November 16, 2014, 08:28:09 AM
Last edit: November 16, 2014, 09:03:17 AM by Bicknellski
 #60

 BFL is certainly in good company being mentioned with Shavers who has already been ordered by a federal court in Texas to give up more than $40 million and pay a $150,000 penalty in a related civil case.

Quote

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