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Author Topic: The best new Bitcoin idea from China! (MACAU and BITCOINS)  (Read 12585 times)
MemoryDealers
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May 09, 2012, 07:08:51 AM
 #1

Yesterday I attended the first Bitcoin meetup group in China.
Photo here: https://twitter.com/#!/rogerkver/status/199841022946185216/photo/1/large
It was organized with only one day notice,  but we had over 30 people show up.
Some traveled several hours all the way from Hong Kong for the meeting.
The Chinese version of Twitter,  Weibo, was buzzing with talk about the Bitcoin meeting.
One of my vendors who attended the meeting emailed me today saying:

Thanks for your last night's dinner and your introduction of bitcoin. I'm very interested in bitcoin even if I'm not quite understand how it workds. Anyway I'd like to trade with you through bitcorn in furture.
Let's talk about the 200 pcs of Finisar FCMJ-8521-3 GLC-T? How many bitcorns would you buy them from me? Smiley Thanks!


I suspect many of my vendors in China will now be much more open to the idea of using Bitcoins for their normal day to day business transactions.
I also know that there are currently talks between Russian telecom companies and Chinese suppliers about conducting their payments via Bitcoin.
 

In the meeting the following problem & Bitcoin solution was brainstormed,  but most of this idea came from Yifu Guo.


1) Chinese love to Gamble
2) Macau has gambling
3) Chinese are not allowed to bring more than $6,000 USD worth of currency to Macau.
4)Chinese cash deposits for Bitcoin
5)Huh??
6) PROFIT!


The ideal way for something like this to occur is for a Macau based casino to open their own bitcoin exchange.
It could be open to casino customers only, or to people around the world.

WIN: Customers would love it,  because they can bring as much money to gamble with as they want.
WIN: Casinos would love it,  because customers can bring as much money to gamble with as they want.

I can't think of any reason why anyone involved wouldn't like this idea.
Myself and some of my Chinese friends intend to approach Macau casinos about this idea.

In order for this to become a reality we need:

1. An easy way for anyone in China to buy any amount of Bitcoins.
2. Casinos to allow cash IN/OUT via Bitcoins.

For #1
Bitinstant.com would like to allow everyone in China to be able to buy Bitcoins,  but we needs some help finding the right partner company in China.

It will need the following requirements:

1) No Chargebacks
2) Easily available across China.
3) Allows for automatic communication with the Bitinstant system via API.


Can anyone recommend a company like this in China?


For #2
I suspect we only need to convince the Casinos that #1 is already in place.

Please add your thoughts or suggestions to the above idea.
Feel free to email me at roger@memorydealers.com
I also do my best to tweet about interesting Bitcoin developments as they happen.
Follow me @rogerkver

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May 09, 2012, 07:22:59 AM
 #2

Thanks for your last night's dinner and your introduction of bitcoin. I'm very interested in bitcoin even if I'm not quite understand how it workds. Anyway I'd like to trade with you through bitcorn in furture.
Let's talk about the 200 pcs of Finisar FCMJ-8521-3 GLC-T? How many bitcorns would you buy them from me? Smiley Thanks!


Bitcorn ? dont let monsanto know about it.

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May 09, 2012, 07:35:58 AM
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I think it's a good idea,
Bitcoinica once add AliPay as funding methods,
but it disappeared later. Wonder why?


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May 09, 2012, 07:54:52 AM
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I think it's a good idea,
Bitcoinica once add AliPay as funding methods,
but it disappeared later. Wonder why?



Alipay does not allow payments to be used for Currency exchange.
If you contact someone privately,  they will likely sell you Bitcoinica credit for Alipay.

Is there a Chinese language bitcoin wallet you can recommend?
My vendor is ready for me to pay him with Bitcoins!

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May 09, 2012, 08:16:57 AM
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I think it's a good idea,
Bitcoinica once add AliPay as funding methods,
but it disappeared later. Wonder why?


Alipay does not allow payments to be used for Currency exchange.
If you contact someone privately,  they will likely sell you Bitcoinica credit for Alipay.

Is there a Chinese language bitcoin wallet you can recommend?
My vendor is ready for me to pay him with Bitcoins!

NO. Maybe btcchina.com.
I once asked piuk, but he's not ready for i18n 

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May 09, 2012, 08:58:46 AM
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Let me guess which day Roger held this meeting:



 - http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btcnCNY#rg10zigDailyzczsg2012-04-28zeg2012-05-10zm1g10zm2g25zvzcv


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May 09, 2012, 09:09:41 AM
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Is there a Chinese language bitcoin wallet you can recommend?
My vendor is ready for me to pay him with Bitcoins!

Some clients have chinese translations.  MultiBit is one.

I know Bitcoinica can be used as a hosted Ewallet and has localization (choose language in the top-right):
 - http://www.bitcoinica.com



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May 09, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
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Alipay does not allow payments to be used for Currency exchange.
If you contact someone privately,  they will likely sell you Bitcoinica credit for Alipay.

I think the reason Alipay does not allow this kind of payments, is because it fears the involved government regulation. Alipay is too large a target.
It is very unlikely that the right partner company in China exists at all.

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May 09, 2012, 09:43:15 AM
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These are very good news you bring, MemoryDealer.

WIN: Customers would love it,  because they can bring as much money to gamble with as they want.
WIN: Casinos would love it,  because customers can bring as much money to gamble with as they want.

I can't think of any reason why anyone involved wouldn't like this idea.

You're right about people involved. But, you know, there are these people which are not involved but love to mind other people's business. There's a potential "LOSE: The Chinese government will hate it, because people would be disobeying them" in your list.

Let's just hope Macau's casinos and bitcoin exchangers in mainland China are faster than the Chinese government, so that if they ever try to forbid anything, it's already too late.
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May 09, 2012, 12:07:39 PM
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Smart people (a lot of them & getting smarter fast) + Bitcoins = Exciting/Interesting times

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May 09, 2012, 12:25:14 PM
 #11

We've run into similar issues regarding the Chinese being restricted in spending their currency outside their borders (for an entirely different business opportunity).  After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that you need to get a domestic exchange going in China and people like yourself need to start using Bitcoin to buy things from the Chinese (so they can obtain more Bitcoin to use on their local exchanges).  Since Chinese currency isn't very usable outside China, it's unlikely that many people outside China will offer to sell Bitcoins in exchange for Yuan (but maybe speculators will).  So, you need domestic sellers of Bitcoin and for their to be sellers, they need to have Bitcoins to sell.

If you start paying some of your Chinese vendors in Bitcoin and find someone to run a domestic exchange, I think that would be a necessary prerequisite to making Bitcoin available to the Chinese for spending when they travel abroad (Macau or elsewhere).  And from what I gather, many Chinese have this problem when traveling and would love to have a way of converting their Yuan into something that is spendable outside China.

Now, there is a 2009 law that makes it illegal in China to use virtual currencies to buy real world goods…and you are skirting around their capital controls…so anyone engaging in this activity in China needs to be aware of the risks involved.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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May 09, 2012, 12:33:32 PM
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As of this moment, the latest version of Multibit (v0.3.4) has 50% coverage in Chinese. All the core functionality is covered, but new features (such as exchange ticker integration) and some wallet related text is still in need of updating.

We anticipate getting these translations updated soon so feel free to promote MultiBit worldwide Grin

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May 09, 2012, 12:50:24 PM
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Quote
Now, there is a 2009 law that makes it illegal in China to use virtual currencies to buy real world goods…and you are skirting around their capital controls…so anyone engaging in this activity in China needs to be aware of the risks involved.

Which is exactly why trying to create a buzz is the wrong idea. Here nice and quiet= ignored by the government. Buzz=attention and trouble.
Nice and quiet stuff here can grow, gain traction and eventually become mainstream as long as it doesn't step on anyone's toes.

However it requires an icebreaker deal similar to what Roger mentions in the telecom negotiating with suppliers here once that kind of precedent is set more steps can be taken.

The TV show from Guanxi province Finway was so good to share on here last year (can't figure out the correct search string) states clearly that you're in multiple violations of multiple laws and policies if you're involved in this kind of trade inside China.

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May 09, 2012, 12:54:36 PM
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We've run into similar issues regarding the Chinese being restricted in spending their currency outside their borders (for an entirely different business opportunity).  After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that you need to get a domestic exchange going in China and people like yourself need to start using Bitcoin to buy things from the Chinese (so they can obtain more Bitcoin to use on their local exchanges).  Since Chinese currency isn't very usable outside China, it's unlikely that many people outside China will offer to sell Bitcoins in exchange for Yuan (but maybe speculators will).  So, you need domestic sellers of Bitcoin and for their to be sellers, they need to have Bitcoins to sell.

You don't need to worry about having local btc sellers. People looking for arbitrage opportunities will do the job of moving bitcoins in or out of China as necessary.
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May 09, 2012, 01:49:29 PM
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Isn't using a credit card an alternative to having more than $6000.
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May 09, 2012, 02:03:35 PM
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Isn't using a credit card an alternative to having more than $6000.

I guess that, if you cannot enter with >$6k, then you can't transfer >$6k either. And credit cards leave a clear trail, so better not use them to break such law.
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May 09, 2012, 02:04:58 PM
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Isn't using a credit card an alternative to having more than $6000.

It is not quite as straight forward as that for Chinese card holders.
Have a look at this list from ICBC (a big Chinese bank) for what you can and cannot use one of its cards for:

http://www.icbc.com.cn/ICBC/Bank%20Card/Important%20Notices/Precautions%20for%20Card%20Use%20Outside%20China/

Use in gambling transactions is prohibited, but you can use it to pay your vet bills!
The yuan is not (yet) freely convertible hence the capital controls.

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May 09, 2012, 02:37:53 PM
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We've run into similar issues regarding the Chinese being restricted in spending their currency outside their borders (for an entirely different business opportunity).  After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that you need to get a domestic exchange going in China and people like yourself need to start using Bitcoin to buy things from the Chinese (so they can obtain more Bitcoin to use on their local exchanges).  Since Chinese currency isn't very usable outside China, it's unlikely that many people outside China will offer to sell Bitcoins in exchange for Yuan (but maybe speculators will).  So, you need domestic sellers of Bitcoin and for their to be sellers, they need to have Bitcoins to sell.

You don't need to worry about having local btc sellers. People looking for arbitrage opportunities will do the job of moving bitcoins in or out of China as necessary.
And precisely what would such arbitrageurs outside of China do with the Yuan they purchase with their bitcoins?  Normally, the arbitrageur would need to wire/convert the Yuan back into USD and then buy back more bitcoins than they originally sold.  But China has strict controls on such transfers and exchange.  The problems that people in China have with spending their Yuan outside China are exactly the same problems that will impede such arbitrage.  Hence the need to create a domestic exchange of bitcoins for Yuan.

I think there would also be benefits in such an exchange to currency traders that might want trade Yuan against other currencies.  They could sell dollars for bitcoins, send the bitcoins to the Chinese bitcoin exchange, and sell the bitcoins for Yuan to hold in their account.  Then reverse that trade as they see fit.  Given there there are such strict controls on trading Yuan for other currencies on the free market, I bet you could make a fortune doing it if you could do it in large enough quantities…you buy Yuan after interventions force the exchange rate back in line with the USD, then sell as it rises and in advance of another intervention.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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May 09, 2012, 02:50:28 PM
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We've run into similar issues regarding the Chinese being restricted in spending their currency outside their borders (for an entirely different business opportunity).  After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that you need to get a domestic exchange going in China and people like yourself need to start using Bitcoin to buy things from the Chinese (so they can obtain more Bitcoin to use on their local exchanges).  Since Chinese currency isn't very usable outside China, it's unlikely that many people outside China will offer to sell Bitcoins in exchange for Yuan (but maybe speculators will).  So, you need domestic sellers of Bitcoin and for their to be sellers, they need to have Bitcoins to sell.

You don't need to worry about having local btc sellers. People looking for arbitrage opportunities will do the job of moving bitcoins in or out of China as necessary.
And precisely what would such arbitrageurs outside of China do with the Yuan they purchase with their bitcoins?  Normally, the arbitrageur would need to wire/convert the Yuan back into USD and then buy back more bitcoins than they originally sold.  But China has strict controls on such transfers and exchange.  The problems that people in China have with spending their Yuan outside China are exactly the same problems that will impede such arbitrage.  Hence the need to create a domestic exchange of bitcoins for Yuan.

I think there would also be benefits in such an exchange to currency traders that might want trade Yuan against other currencies.  They could sell dollars for bitcoins, send the bitcoins to the Chinese bitcoin exchange, and sell the bitcoins for Yuan to hold in their account.  Then reverse that trade as they see fit.  Given there there are such strict controls on trading Yuan for other currencies on the free market, I bet you could make a fortune doing it if you could do it in large enough quantities…you buy Yuan after interventions force the exchange rate back in line with the USD, then sell as it rises and in advance of another intervention.

Your 100% right.

We touched on this at the Summit. Chinese have tight controls over their Renminbi currency.

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May 09, 2012, 02:55:18 PM
 #20

Finway has just updated the Simplified Chinese translation of MultiBit, including all the most recent additions (including the currency ticker).

There is a screen shot here:
http://multibit.org/postImages/simplifiedChinese.png

It will be available in the next release (v0.3.5) which should be in a day or two.

Edit: MultiBit v0.3.5 - with finway's Simplified Chinese translation - is now on multibit.org

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