http://www.pyramining.com/ - Discussion thread (no advertising here)

[Raoul Duke]

he get about 0.5 btc/day

For how long will he get that value?

[yo-blin]

he get about 0.5 btc/day

For how long will he get that value?

With current Difficulty

[Raoul Duke]

he get about 0.5 btc/day

For how long will he get that value?

With current Difficulty

So, do you expect current difficulty to last for 240 days?

[yo-blin]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/index.html

I say ABOUT...
and in pyraimne profit also depend on Difficulty

[pyramining]

standart BitForce Single from butterflylabs cost ~ 120 btc
he get about 0.5 btc/day
break-even = 120/0.5 = 240 day without electric pay

Those devices are not very reliable, and they can't be ordered in such quantities. If you order a few ones, they make you wait months...
They draw exactly 2 times the amount of energy compared to Spartan6 FPGA, and some of them have problems with cooling. You didn't considered electicity costs, and the fact that you need also a computer, and a place where you put them.

With the production batch of July, I will occupy 2 racks, 6 servers, and so on... I don't think that even with BFL (supposing you can get that many) you can stay under 10 months for a complete break-even. Of course if you only see what you want (without all the infrastructure involved), it might seem easier, but it's not sustainable as a business.

[VEscudero]

I think I have missed something, so please help me if there is anything I have misunderstood.

With current difficulty levels if I put 100 BTCs in pyramining today, with a sponsor referral I will get about 110 BTCs in 10 months.
So this is similar to a loan where I can only get a 1% interest a month. Moreover I cannot directly withdraw my deposit before the expiration period although I could try to negotiate a withdrawal through therocktrading for a fee.

I am sure there should be something I am missing here, as I do not see the benefit of investing in pyramining instead of any other mining bond listed on GLBSE. With any of them you could sell your bonds whenever you want and you will get more than 6% interest instead of 1%.

[Raoul Duke]

I think I have missed something, so please help me if there is anything I have misunderstood.

With current difficulty levels if I put 100 BTCs in pyramining today, with a sponsor referral I will get about 110 BTCs in 10 months.
So this is similar to a loan where I can only get a 1% interest a month. Moreover I cannot directly withdraw my deposit before the expiration period although I could try to negotiate a withdrawal through therocktrading for a fee.

I am sure there should be something I am missing here, as I do not see the benefit of investing in pyramining instead of any other mining bond listed on GLBSE. With any of them you could sell your bonds whenever you want and you will get more than 6% interest instead of 1%.

I think you are forgeting the part where the bonds can drop in price for varous factors and you will be left with worthless "paper" in your hands.

And yes, it's a loan mostly, not an "investment" per se.
I can't speak for others, but I'm profiting. Almost tripled my deposit in 1 month and I'm still at 7% reward completion.

[eliale]

We just released a new service linked to Pyramining:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86454.0

This Bond should solve the problem about getting out. 

Of course, it gives you "only" 1% fixed per month

Thank you!

[VEscudero]

I think you are forgeting the part where the bonds can drop in price for varous factors and you will be left with worthless "paper" in your hands.

And yes, it's a loan mostly, not an "investment" per se.
I can't speak for others, but I'm profiting. Almost tripled my deposit in 1 month and I'm still at 7% reward completion.

I think it should be clearer with an hypothetical scenario in which I will do the math for you.

Image that you are willing to 'invest' 100 BTCs and you are assessing these two choices:

• a) Buy some pyramining bonds
• b) Buy some zeta-mining bonds

Option a) I spend 100 BTCs now and I get 110 BTCs in 10 months from now.
Option b) I spend 100 BTCs in zeta-mining bonds at today price of 0.278 so I got 359.71 bonds (yeah, they should be 359 bonds).

At the current difficulty, every zeta-mining bond gives as 1MH/s that is 0.019060 btcs per month. I know it is not very easy to forecast how the difficulty is going to change so we would ignore that fact and assume for a moment that it would not change. After all, both mining bonds will be affected difficulty changes but I do not have any strong evidence that makes me think that one of them is going to outperform the other in that scenario.

10 months later:

• In option a ) We will get 110 BTCs
• In option b) we will get 68.42 BTCs from 10 months of dividends + 359 zeta-mining bonds.

The only way in which the option a will be superior will be those in which the 359 zeta-mining costs less than 41.48 btcs that is 0.115 btc per bond!.

In a ponzi scheme, one takes advantage of the people he/she refers to. If we decide not to do that depositing money in pyramining is like betting against the odds that the prices of similar mining bonds will drop more than 40% by April 2013.

Do you think it is a fair comparision?
Do you think that bond prices will drop at half by the end of this year? maybe more by April 2013?

[Raoul Duke]

Well, taking into account that zeta-mining bonds costed 0.295 in the IPO and now are only valued at 0.278, less than 1 month after the IPO, do your math and tell me if a 40% drop in value is impossible or not realistic.

[VEscudero]

Well, taking into account that zeta-mining bonds costed 0.295 in the IPO and now are only valued at 0.278, less than 1 month after the IPO, do your math and tell me if a 40% drop in value is impossible or not realistic.

Yeah, I think is 100% realistic but in my opinion there are at least two assumptions here that we should be aware of:

• zefir will upgrade his zeta-mining rigs with more efficient equipment, so his bonds will continue to be appreciated. The difficulty here is to asses how much impact will have the reduction in mining rewards from 50 coins to only 25 at the end of the year.
  
• Until recently, mining bonds have been the undisputed stars at GLBSE but as new ideas come to fruition they are loosing part of their appealing . For example, right now all the mining bonds prices have dropped in part because of the much attractive interest rates from riskier bonds such as those PPT bonds provided through pirate. If this trend could continue for such a long time (10 months), I am sure that a 40% drop in price is not only possible but also very likely.
  

What do you think?

[pyromaniac]

I have invested around 91 BTC. If I understood right, if I add around 9 BTC my results will grow up to 1 GH. Is that right?

P.S. Here is my referral links:
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/2fa8chtk7   2012-06-01 00:40:37 UTC   still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/dzmtxsh7r   2012-06-01 00:40:37 UTC   still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/seh3yqtam   2012-06-01 00:40:37 UTC   still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/4g3d6phbm   2012-06-01 00:40:37 UTC   still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/zbp48g6yd   2012-06-01 00:40:37 UTC   still active

[pyramining]

I think it should be clearer with an hypothetical scenario in which I will do the math for you.

Image that you are willing to 'invest' 100 BTCs and you are assessing these two choices:

• a) Buy some pyramining bonds
• b) Buy some zeta-mining bonds

Option a) I spend 100 BTCs now and I get 110 BTCs in 10 months from now.
Option b) I spend 100 BTCs in zeta-mining bonds at today price of 0.278 so I got 359.71 bonds (yeah, they should be 359 bonds).

At the current difficulty, every zeta-mining bond gives as 1MH/s that is 0.019060 btcs per month. I know it is not very easy to forecast how the difficulty is going to change so we would ignore that fact and assume for a moment that it would not change. After all, both mining bonds will be affected difficulty changes but I do not have any strong evidence that makes me think that one of them is going to outperform the other in that scenario.

10 months later:

• In option a ) We will get 110 BTCs
• In option b) we will get 68.42 BTCs from 10 months of dividends + 359 zeta-mining bonds.

In such an operation, what would it happen if hardware breaks? You need more than 2 years to break-even (considering only dividends, and a slight increase in difficulty, with bounty halved around December). The expected life of FPGA devices is about 2 years. How much value will your bonds retain???

In a ponzi scheme, one takes advantage of the people he/she refers to. If we decide not to do that depositing money in pyramining is like betting against the odds that the prices of similar mining bonds will drop more than 40% by April 2013.

It is not a ponzi scheme. Who joins though your account DOES NOT give you any money directly. It's Pyramining that rewards your commercial/marketing efforts with an increased bonus, that's made possible by the referred people investments in mining infrastructure. Your income (investment + bonus) comes ONLY from mining activity.

If you have any idea and/or find a way to bring new investments into this project, your rewards will be far more high than those on any bond out there. With other bonds you just have to wait passively and hoping that everything goes as planned.

Do you think it is a fair comparision?
Do you think that bond prices will drop at half by the end of this year? maybe more by April 2013?

With increased difficulty and halved bounty, added up to aging hardware, it's most likely that those kind of bonds will fall pretty much.

On the Pyramining side, you can notice that after last investments, expected break-even is 8 months and full reward 9.

The more people deposit/invest, the faster it gets. And when the bounty halve, it won't be a problem. Also new members/investments will buy fresh infrastructure that gets added up, at better and better prices (due to volume) and edge technology, so Pyramining is probably always the best investment available.

We design our infrastructure internally, so everytime economical conditions makes it possible, we improove it, using edge technology.

Last but not least, there are 3rd parties who offer you even some form of warranties (like The Rock does), giving an insurance on the capital invested (made possible by their increased revenue using them as sponsors), and on early quitting (buying your outstanding position).

I expect that many other services/warranties/ideas will come out when Pyramining gets better visibility (it has been started just 1 month ago).

With bonds your risks are definitely higher.

[VEscudero]

Thank you pyramining for all the clarifications, your support has been very helpful. As a sign for my appreciation I have just made a large deposit as I really think that your business plan is rock solid and deserves greater visibility.

Here I provide my referral codes to any investor that wants to get a 10% bonus for his/her pyramining deposits:

http://www.pyramining.com/referral/zq46ysrfb    2012-08-30 22:22:48 UTC    still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/3agcxby82    2012-08-30 22:22:48 UTC    still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/eg9pfc8nt    2012-08-30 22:22:48 UTC    still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/qhksa2z3y    2012-09-08 15:02:09 UTC    still active
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/4tp6ymn92    2012-09-16 09:39:10 UTC    still active

These codes will expire as soon as someone uses them to join, so I will try to update this post from time to time to provide new ones.
In any case, do not hesitate to send me a private message if none of them seems to work for you and I will send you some more.

Thank you,
Victor Escudero.

Last update: 2013-05-16

[manrus]

Pyramining, can you upload photos of  mining hardware to the forum?

[pyramining]

Pyramining, can you upload photos of  mining hardware to the forum?

I didn't do it until now only because I don't want to give hints to competitors :-)

It took me a lot of resources to design everything, including the 3U rack case, 400mm deep, with 48 FPGA units stuffed in and efficient cooling and that doesn't cost like a Ferrari.

I am talking of detailed pictures with open cases. If I make small pictures of the rack units, it doesn't prove anything, it would look like router / server equipment.

Eliale visited my company and he has seen it directly.

I am not sure about publishing them online, but at the same time I don't want it to be a mystery.

I am thinking about a solution, like:

- Showing pictures to an existing member who I can trust, who will be a testimonial for others.
It may be someone who joined earlier, who already posted on this topic, and that you  can trust too.

- Allowing access to pictures only to serious investors (for example, with a deposit of at least 1000 BTC).
It's fair to show the infrastructure to someone that trusts and invest in this project, also to reassure him about where his money has been spent. And they could be testimonial for others, too.

- Any other proposal made by someone of you, which I find reasonable.

What do you think?

[eliale]

Pyramining, can you upload photos of  mining hardware to the forum?

Eliale visited my company and he has seen it directly.

..... and soon I'll make another stop to look at all the new equipment!   

[ludo0777]

Just made a deposit, hopefully I'll get some referrals to increase it 

Use these links to get a 10% reward instead of 5% 
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/s3qyte4h2
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/ctpkshdem
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/aq4drfygh
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/hxsdg6bqf
http://www.pyramining.com/referral/cegdksabt

[finkleshnorts]

Pyramining, can you upload photos of  mining hardware to the forum?

I didn't do it until now only because I don't want to give hints to competitors :-)

It took me a lot of resources to design everything, including the 3U rack case, 400mm deep, with 48 FPGA units stuffed in and efficient cooling and that doesn't cost like a Ferrari.

I am talking of detailed pictures with open cases. If I make small pictures of the rack units, it doesn't prove anything, it would look like router / server equipment.

Eliale visited my company and he has seen it directly.

I am not sure about publishing them online, but at the same time I don't want it to be a mystery.

I am thinking about a solution, like:

- Showing pictures to an existing member who I can trust, who will be a testimonial for others.
It may be someone who joined earlier, who already posted on this topic, and that you  can trust too.

- Allowing access to pictures only to serious investors (for example, with a deposit of at least 1000 BTC).
It's fair to show the infrastructure to someone that trusts and invest in this project, also to reassure him about where his money has been spent. And they could be testimonial for others, too.

- Any other proposal made by someone of you, which I find reasonable.

What do you think?

I have seen pictures of the mining setup. I already trusted this service anyway, and have already received several payouts. I definitely recommend this service.

[ludo0777]

If someone deposits 1BTC how long will it take for them to be repaid?