Bitcoin Forum
December 18, 2017, 05:25:29 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: POW vs POS?  (Read 3922 times)
kokojie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
 #61

Proof of Work, It says it all right there. A proof that fair work has been done. If you dig a ditch you can proof the work has been done but you will have a hard time exchanging it, Bitcoin takes care of this. If you used a shovel or a digger is irrelevant its a matter what is the best economic choice.  
Miners purpose is to mine and thats it just like a gold miner is mining to sell to have a functional business and just keeps a small amount for the lean times. A miner invest in machinery and a lot of other thins and not in gold/bitcoin, another investor will do that.
Bitcoin is a commodity, it is modern Gold the currency aspect of it is just a added bonus just like gold is legal tender (depending on jurisdiction). Money is not something you buy like a ripple cost nothing to produce and millions are given to the banks for free, and you can buy some, lol. That system sound familiar. Why would anyone pay for something which cost nothing to produce, is not scarce as it can be copied endlessly and it does not matter when its started.
Increase the market cap by 100B with the push of a button from $ 40 000  000 to $ 140 000 000 is literately worse scam than the the FED. Zero transparency, corporate centralized at least 92%  of available still to be sold at any price which is dreamed up. Oh yeh give it to me baby a dream come true.


Its amazing how many people struggle with the word work.  
Satoshi is so far ahead its not funny in due time even the slowest one will catch up.



1. even when Bitcoin coin supply is zero, PoW is still needed in order to secure the network, therefore PoW has nothing to do with cost of producing Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not gold, PoW miners are not real miners. Real mining is required to extract gold, PoW mining is NOT required to produce Bitcoin, a PoS mining network could do the same thing, with nearly zero cost.

2. PoW's work is useless and meaningless work, there's no value in it. PoW extracts value from the Bitcoin eco-system, because Bitcoin eco-system is where the value is at, not the PoW network.

3. PoS can secure the network better than PoW, it's a proven concept as many PoW altcoins fall victim to 51% attack, and PoS altcoin are all secure and not attacked.

4. PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW extracts value out of the eco-system, and into the pockets of the mining interest group (miners/pools/hardware vendor/electric company). This is again a proven concept, as PoS eco-systems are rising to the top of coinmarketcap.

Satoshi is smart and a visionary, but he is not God, he can not foresee everything and solve all problems, otherwise we'd already have Bitcoin core 1.0 five years ago.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
1513574729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513574729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513574729
Reply with quote  #2

1513574729
Report to moderator
1513574729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513574729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513574729
Reply with quote  #2

1513574729
Report to moderator
1513574729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513574729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513574729
Reply with quote  #2

1513574729
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513574729
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513574729

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513574729
Reply with quote  #2

1513574729
Report to moderator
newuser01
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:28:54 PM
 #62

Proof of Work, It says it all right there. A proof that fair work has been done. If you dig a ditch you can proof the work has been done but you will have a hard time exchanging it, Bitcoin takes care of this. If you used a shovel or a digger is irrelevant its a matter what is the best economic choice.  
Miners purpose is to mine and thats it just like a gold miner is mining to sell to have a functional business and just keeps a small amount for the lean times. A miner invest in machinery and a lot of other thins and not in gold/bitcoin, another investor will do that.
Bitcoin is a commodity, it is modern Gold the currency aspect of it is just a added bonus just like gold is legal tender (depending on jurisdiction). Money is not something you buy like a ripple cost nothing to produce and millions are given to the banks for free, and you can buy some, lol. That system sound familiar. Why would anyone pay for something which cost nothing to produce, is not scarce as it can be copied endlessly and it does not matter when its started.
Increase the market cap by 100B with the push of a button from $ 40 000  000 to $ 140 000 000 is literately worse scam than the the FED. Zero transparency, corporate centralized at least 92%  of available still to be sold at any price which is dreamed up. Oh yeh give it to me baby a dream come true.


Its amazing how many people struggle with the word work.  
Satoshi is so far ahead its not funny in due time even the slowest one will catch up.



1. even when Bitcoin coin supply is zero, PoW is still needed in order to secure the network, therefore PoW has nothing to do with cost of producing Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not gold, PoW miners are not real miners. Real mining is required to extract gold, PoW mining is NOT required to produce Bitcoin, a PoS mining network could do the same thing, with nearly zero cost.

2. PoW's work is useless and meaningless work, there's no value in it. PoW extracts value from the Bitcoin eco-system, because Bitcoin eco-system is where the value is at, not the PoW network.

3. PoS can secure the network better than PoW, it's a proven concept as many PoW altcoins fall victim to 51% attack, and PoS altcoin are all secure and not attacked.

4. PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW extracts value out of the eco-system, and into the pockets of the mining interest group (miners/pools/hardware vendor/electric company). This is again a proven concept, as PoS eco-systems are rising to the top of coinmarketcap.

Do you really consider PoS networks more secure than PoW?

even when you can attack the network at zero cost with PoS?

I dont know if post is troll or not


I see now from your other posts you simply dont know understand how PoS works.. it is ok, when the attack happens and your coins are worthless maybe you will change opinion Smiley
kokojie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:30:23 PM
 #63

Proof of Work, It says it all right there. A proof that fair work has been done. If you dig a ditch you can proof the work has been done but you will have a hard time exchanging it, Bitcoin takes care of this. If you used a shovel or a digger is irrelevant its a matter what is the best economic choice.  
Miners purpose is to mine and thats it just like a gold miner is mining to sell to have a functional business and just keeps a small amount for the lean times. A miner invest in machinery and a lot of other thins and not in gold/bitcoin, another investor will do that.
Bitcoin is a commodity, it is modern Gold the currency aspect of it is just a added bonus just like gold is legal tender (depending on jurisdiction). Money is not something you buy like a ripple cost nothing to produce and millions are given to the banks for free, and you can buy some, lol. That system sound familiar. Why would anyone pay for something which cost nothing to produce, is not scarce as it can be copied endlessly and it does not matter when its started.
Increase the market cap by 100B with the push of a button from $ 40 000  000 to $ 140 000 000 is literately worse scam than the the FED. Zero transparency, corporate centralized at least 92%  of available still to be sold at any price which is dreamed up. Oh yeh give it to me baby a dream come true.


Its amazing how many people struggle with the word work.  
Satoshi is so far ahead its not funny in due time even the slowest one will catch up.



1. even when Bitcoin coin supply is zero, PoW is still needed in order to secure the network, therefore PoW has nothing to do with cost of producing Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not gold, PoW miners are not real miners. Real mining is required to extract gold, PoW mining is NOT required to produce Bitcoin, a PoS mining network could do the same thing, with nearly zero cost.

2. PoW's work is useless and meaningless work, there's no value in it. PoW extracts value from the Bitcoin eco-system, because Bitcoin eco-system is where the value is at, not the PoW network.

3. PoS can secure the network better than PoW, it's a proven concept as many PoW altcoins fall victim to 51% attack, and PoS altcoin are all secure and not attacked.

4. PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW extracts value out of the eco-system, and into the pockets of the mining interest group (miners/pools/hardware vendor/electric company). This is again a proven concept, as PoS eco-systems are rising to the top of coinmarketcap.

Do you really consider PoS networks more secure than PoW?

even when you can attack the network at zero cost with PoS?

I dont know if post is troll or not

Go attack one and show me then? Until you could show me how you could attack one in reality, the fact is still many PoW network has been attacked to death, and ZERO PoS network has been successfully attacked.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
kokojie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:32:00 PM
 #64

when the attack happens and your coins are worthless maybe you will change opinion Smiley

I think just the contrary, when Bitcoin PoW is attacked, and your Bitcoins are worthless, maybe you will change opinion. Because PoW network are PROVEN to be easily attacked, it's just a matter of time, that a well funded and determined attacker will attack Bitcoin PoW network.

On the other hand, no PoS network has been successfully attacked in reality, so I will believe it when I see it.

Even without any attack, if there's no inflow of capital, Bitcoin's price will go toward zero due to the PoW expense. Basically constant inflow of capital is required, to support the Bitcoin price.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
inBitweTrust
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:42:26 PM
 #65

....


Have you figured out the devaluation plan on BTSX yet, or do you want me to IM you the link?


kokojie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722



View Profile
October 06, 2014, 03:56:40 PM
 #66

....


Have you figured out the devaluation plan on BTSX yet, or do you want me to IM you the link?



Sure, pm me the info if you can't post it.

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
cbeast
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


View Profile
October 06, 2014, 04:10:10 PM
 #67

Proof of Work, It says it all right there. A proof that fair work has been done. If you dig a ditch you can proof the work has been done but you will have a hard time exchanging it, Bitcoin takes care of this. If you used a shovel or a digger is irrelevant its a matter what is the best economic choice.  
Miners purpose is to mine and thats it just like a gold miner is mining to sell to have a functional business and just keeps a small amount for the lean times. A miner invest in machinery and a lot of other thins and not in gold/bitcoin, another investor will do that.
Bitcoin is a commodity, it is modern Gold the currency aspect of it is just a added bonus just like gold is legal tender (depending on jurisdiction). Money is not something you buy like a ripple cost nothing to produce and millions are given to the banks for free, and you can buy some, lol. That system sound familiar. Why would anyone pay for something which cost nothing to produce, is not scarce as it can be copied endlessly and it does not matter when its started.
Increase the market cap by 100B with the push of a button from $ 40 000  000 to $ 140 000 000 is literately worse scam than the the FED. Zero transparency, corporate centralized at least 92%  of available still to be sold at any price which is dreamed up. Oh yeh give it to me baby a dream come true.


Its amazing how many people struggle with the word work.  
Satoshi is so far ahead its not funny in due time even the slowest one will catch up.



1. even when Bitcoin coin supply is zero, PoW is still needed in order to secure the network, therefore PoW has nothing to do with cost of producing Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not gold, PoW miners are not real miners. Real mining is required to extract gold, PoW mining is NOT required to produce Bitcoin, a PoS mining network could do the same thing, with nearly zero cost.

2. PoW's work is useless and meaningless work, there's no value in it. PoW extracts value from the Bitcoin eco-system, because Bitcoin eco-system is where the value is at, not the PoW network.

3. PoS can secure the network better than PoW, it's a proven concept as many PoW altcoins fall victim to 51% attack, and PoS altcoin are all secure and not attacked.

4. PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW extracts value out of the eco-system, and into the pockets of the mining interest group (miners/pools/hardware vendor/electric company). This is again a proven concept, as PoS eco-systems are rising to the top of coinmarketcap.

Do you really consider PoS networks more secure than PoW?

even when you can attack the network at zero cost with PoS?

I dont know if post is troll or not


I see now from your other posts you simply dont know understand how PoS works.. it is ok, when the attack happens and your coins are worthless maybe you will change opinion Smiley
Just ignore him. I don't know or care why he suddenly forked from Bitcoin. He ignores your points and stuffs you with strawmen or slaps you with red herrings. Whatever the reason, he spends way too much time in the Bitcoin forum talking about altcoins. PoW is work. You hit the nail on the head. He is basically saying that the value of work diminishes after the work is done (an old prostitute adage), which is true, but that's why we put value on it immediately and pay for it. PoS gets paid by debt which is a zero sum game. That's the subtle difference. If a miner doesn't work he doesn't get paid and vice versa. Successful miners work more efficiently than non. PoS would only if a government backs it with compounded debt.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
51percemt
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 86


View Profile
October 08, 2014, 02:26:44 AM
 #68

Proof of Work, It says it all right there. A proof that fair work has been done. If you dig a ditch you can proof the work has been done but you will have a hard time exchanging it, Bitcoin takes care of this. If you used a shovel or a digger is irrelevant its a matter what is the best economic choice.  
Miners purpose is to mine and thats it just like a gold miner is mining to sell to have a functional business and just keeps a small amount for the lean times. A miner invest in machinery and a lot of other thins and not in gold/bitcoin, another investor will do that.
Bitcoin is a commodity, it is modern Gold the currency aspect of it is just a added bonus just like gold is legal tender (depending on jurisdiction). Money is not something you buy like a ripple cost nothing to produce and millions are given to the banks for free, and you can buy some, lol. That system sound familiar. Why would anyone pay for something which cost nothing to produce, is not scarce as it can be copied endlessly and it does not matter when its started.
Increase the market cap by 100B with the push of a button from $ 40 000  000 to $ 140 000 000 is literately worse scam than the the FED. Zero transparency, corporate centralized at least 92%  of available still to be sold at any price which is dreamed up. Oh yeh give it to me baby a dream come true.


Its amazing how many people struggle with the word work.  
Satoshi is so far ahead its not funny in due time even the slowest one will catch up.



1. even when Bitcoin coin supply is zero, PoW is still needed in order to secure the network, therefore PoW has nothing to do with cost of producing Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not gold, PoW miners are not real miners. Real mining is required to extract gold, PoW mining is NOT required to produce Bitcoin, a PoS mining network could do the same thing, with nearly zero cost.

2. PoW's work is useless and meaningless work, there's no value in it. PoW extracts value from the Bitcoin eco-system, because Bitcoin eco-system is where the value is at, not the PoW network.

3. PoS can secure the network better than PoW, it's a proven concept as many PoW altcoins fall victim to 51% attack, and PoS altcoin are all secure and not attacked.

4. PoS re-invest in the community and eco-system, PoW extracts value out of the eco-system, and into the pockets of the mining interest group (miners/pools/hardware vendor/electric company). This is again a proven concept, as PoS eco-systems are rising to the top of coinmarketcap.

Do you really consider PoS networks more secure than PoW?

even when you can attack the network at zero cost with PoS?

I dont know if post is troll or not


I see now from your other posts you simply dont know understand how PoS works.. it is ok, when the attack happens and your coins are worthless maybe you will change opinion Smiley
Just ignore him. I don't know or care why he suddenly forked from Bitcoin. He ignores your points and stuffs you with strawmen or slaps you with red herrings. Whatever the reason, he spends way too much time in the Bitcoin forum talking about altcoins. PoW is work. You hit the nail on the head. He is basically saying that the value of work diminishes after the work is done (an old prostitute adage), which is true, but that's why we put value on it immediately and pay for it. PoS gets paid by debt which is a zero sum game. That's the subtle difference. If a miner doesn't work he doesn't get paid and vice versa. Successful miners work more efficiently than non. PoS would only if a government backs it with compounded debt.
Maybe it is a purchased account by someone trying to pump PoS shitcoins?

I agree, that PoS does not give the "miners" anything of value in exchange for their "stakes" as almost everyone essentially gets the same reward.

I would say that people who advocate for PoW are people who are willing to work for their money/earnings while PoS supporters advocate for the government to provide welfare to them in exchange for nothing
Daedelus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574



View Profile
December 18, 2014, 05:57:47 PM
 #69

Some rigorous research into POS, which includes some findings relating to the so called "Nothing at Stake problem" has been published >>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.0

You can play with the models used to get the findings yourself. There is still some questions to answer (which will be done in subsequent papers) but the authors found "it's nearly impossible to attack a proof-of-stake currency with '1% stake even' as stated by Buterin".


Please comment in the thread >>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.0 to hopefully get a good quality discussion going for the benefit of the crypto scene, let's leave tribalism at the door.
WANOKUNI
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3


View Profile
October 29, 2017, 03:09:08 PM
 #70

I have not bought POS COIN.So some advice to me please.
What Pos COIN  do you most reccomend the best?
Noeter31
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 40


View Profile
November 18, 2017, 01:21:14 AM
 #71

Bitcoin and Proof of Work. Bitcoin is based on a POW (Proof of Work) system where the probability of mining a block is dependent on how much work is done by the miner. A proof-of-stake (POS) systems varies in that a person can “mine” depending on how many coins they hold.
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!