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Author Topic: POW vs POS?  (Read 3922 times)
JohnnyBTC
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October 04, 2014, 01:58:32 AM
 #1

i'm sorry if i'm hitting some nerves here because i know its a sensitive subject.  what are the disadvantages of POS and why is POW so important? POW is a fun game, but is all this expensive POW really necessary to keep a functional & secure coin? 
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JohnnyBTC
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October 04, 2014, 02:11:19 AM
 #2

i just found this

Quote
Proof-of-stake systems are also not as safe as a simplified explanation of them might make them out to be. If there are 1,000 coins in circulation, but only 100 coins staked, an attacker would only need 101 staked coins to perform the attack.

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October 04, 2014, 02:17:13 AM
 #3

The thing about PoS is that, while it is an interesting concept, it just isn't secure/fair enough. A PoW block provides security in that you know an amount of energy has been expended in generating it. A PoS block only shows that somebody has coins.
Fairness is a little more subjective, but still a major point. To incentivize "staking," there's usually an amount of "interest" (for lack of a better word) rewarded to the block finder. Now imagine that applied to Bitcoin, and how you would explain it to people:

Where do new coins come from?
People who already have coins. They generate new coins at no cost. People who have the most coins will generate the most new coins.
Isn't that exactly how things already work with fiat, but with 'coins' instead of money?
You're very insightful, rhetorical device.

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October 04, 2014, 04:16:24 AM
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pow = a couple of giant mining farms run by millionaires make money and everyone else saw their investment collapse 70% in the last year thanks to these farms dumping most of the million or so newly generated coins on exchange to pay their costs.

Be radical, have principles, be absolute, be that which the bourgeoisie calls an extremist: give yourself without counting or calculating, don't accept what they call ‘the reality of life' and act in such a way that you won't be accepted by that kind of ‘life', never abandon the principle of struggle.
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October 04, 2014, 04:26:13 AM
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what happy to BTC Sad

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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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October 04, 2014, 04:30:09 AM
 #6

pow = a couple of giant mining farms run by millionaires make money and everyone else saw their investment collapse 70% in the last year thanks to these farms dumping most of the million or so newly generated coins on exchange to pay their costs.
The mining farmers are the first geniuses to figure out how to outcompete other miners. To the victor go the spoils. This is a celebration of capitalism!

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 04, 2014, 04:36:38 AM
 #7

pow = a couple of giant mining farms run by millionaires make money and everyone else saw their investment collapse 70% in the last year thanks to these farms dumping most of the million or so newly generated coins on exchange to pay their costs.

POS =  single entity of millionaire who has amassed more than 51% would be more centralized and worse than a pow coin and everyone else saw their investment at the mercy of this millionaire

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
ofortuna
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October 04, 2014, 05:00:55 AM
 #8

PoS coupons minted at mining, non-transferable, with wide distribution... could be the answer to the huge energy sink of PoW mining.


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████BREAKOUT STAKEWEBSITEMULTICURRENCY SMART CONTRACTS + SIDECHAINS ANN ★  COINSALE July 10 – July 24  ████
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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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October 04, 2014, 05:35:40 AM
 #9

PoS coupons minted at mining, non-transferable, with wide distribution... could be the answer to the huge energy sink of PoW mining.


Like Auroracoin? Epic fail.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Q7
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October 04, 2014, 05:42:10 AM
 #10

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed

inBitweTrust
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October 04, 2014, 05:47:01 AM
 #11

i'm sorry if i'm hitting some nerves here because i know its a sensitive subject.  what are the disadvantages of POS and why is POW so important? POW is a fun game, but is all this expensive POW really necessary to keep a functional & secure coin? 

This was just discussed to death here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770591.0

No need for a new thread. Read that and than continue the conversation if needed.

Seems like various DPoS and PoS investors are spamming our forum lately.

cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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October 04, 2014, 05:54:12 AM
 #12

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed
Whoever said life is fair? All freedom and justice must be fought for. Grow a pair and figure out how to compete or go play kiddie games. Bitcoin is for the Big Boys now. Hehe, just kidding. The Big Boys haven't even started playing yet. If you want to play in the minor league you still need the chops. All you need is to live in a cold climate with cheap electricity and you can still compete. If you are like me and prefer to sit on tropical beaches and enjoy fruity drinks, then perhaps trading may be your game. For the rest of the slobs like I was once, my proof of work was a job that bought me bitcoins that I held because I believe in the principles it stands for and not as a get rich easy scheme. If you like your job and believe in something, your quality of life is already way ahead of most people. That is something worth fighting for.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
noobtrader
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October 04, 2014, 05:56:06 AM
 #13

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed

what prevent the rich buying thousand of cpu and mining with it ?

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
Newmine
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October 04, 2014, 06:21:01 AM
 #14

POW was great in the beginning when anyone could mine with a CPU. POW has now been consolidated to directing your hashing power towards one of a handful of mining pools. These few pools now can control the network if they collude. What the incentive is may be less known and more damaging if they do, but nonetheless, the network can be controlled buy an elite few.

POS has the same problems as anyone with enough funds can buy their way into controlling the blocks.

DPOS has a similar problem as POS as you use your stake to "vote" block signers into position. I think, but could be wrong that DPOS doesn't allow you to use your stake to vote for a majority of signers. You would have to have multiple large stake holders colluding to overrun the system. Please correct if I am wrong.
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October 04, 2014, 06:23:04 AM
 #15

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed

what prevent the rich buying thousand of cpu and mining with it ?

I have 4 cpus at home and i can start mining. The rich slob down the road buys 1000 cpus and also mine. So in this scenario, i don't spend additional hardware and i still can get a chance. The cpu my kids use it for homework. One for gaming and another obsolete unit use for office works. Another unit just goes unused.

Turn the other way even though i can afford, i'm not going to get special rig just to mine.

So u see the difference?

ofortuna
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October 04, 2014, 06:25:16 AM
 #16

PoS coupons minted at mining, non-transferable, with wide distribution... could be the answer to the huge energy sink of PoW mining.


Like Auroracoin? Epic fail.

Actually, I was thinking more like the BRO coin that's been announced.

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████BREAKOUT STAKEWEBSITEMULTICURRENCY SMART CONTRACTS + SIDECHAINS ANN ★  COINSALE July 10 – July 24  ████
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Q7
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October 04, 2014, 06:31:34 AM
 #17

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed
Whoever said life is fair? All freedom and justice must be fought for. Grow a pair and figure out how to compete or go play kiddie games. Bitcoin is for the Big Boys now. Hehe, just kidding. The Big Boys haven't even started playing yet. If you want to play in the minor league you still need the chops. All you need is to live in a cold climate with cheap electricity and you can still compete. If you are like me and prefer to sit on tropical beaches and enjoy fruity drinks, then perhaps trading may be your game. For the rest of the slobs like I was once, my proof of work was a job that bought me bitcoins that I held because I believe in the principles it stands for and not as a get rich easy scheme. If you like your job and believe in something, your quality of life is already way ahead of most people. That is something worth fighting for.

And yeah and just look at the state of btc progress right now. If the distribution model at least get reached out to more people, it will be different. Tell me why u need faucets and tipping?

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October 04, 2014, 06:32:38 AM
 #18

Actually my preferences tend to lean toward pow. But currently as what is happening right now giant farms with heavy equipment are in total control which means average joe like myself don't even have a chance at all. I still believe cpu mining where one cpu translates to one vote... just to ensure the coins are fairly distributed

what prevent the rich buying thousand of cpu and mining with it ?

I have 4 cpus at home and i can start mining. The rich slob down the road buys 1000 cpus and also mine. So in this scenario, i don't spend additional hardware and i still can get a chance. The cpu my kids use it for homework. One for gaming and another obsolete unit use for office works. Another unit just goes unused.

Turn the other way even though i can afford, i'm not going to get special rig just to mine.

So u see the difference?

yes.... the rich dont buy they already have datacenter and yu dont have a chance

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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October 04, 2014, 06:35:38 AM
 #19

PoS coupons minted at mining, non-transferable, with wide distribution... could be the answer to the huge energy sink of PoW mining.


Like Auroracoin? Epic fail.

Actually, I was thinking more like the BRO coin that's been announced.

So explain how exactly you think there will be wide distribution.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
ofortuna
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October 04, 2014, 06:50:22 AM
 #20

PoS coupons minted at mining, non-transferable, with wide distribution... could be the answer to the huge energy sink of PoW mining.


Like Auroracoin? Epic fail.

Actually, I was thinking more like the BRO coin that's been announced.

So explain how exactly you think there will be wide distribution.

The PoS coupons called Bergstake, will be distributed in the ICO and followed by a lengthy period of PoW cpu mining before the PoS kicks in.  In the interest of full disclosure, I am associated with the BRO coin.  I'd love to hear your opinion on the model cbeast.  Perhaps I can give you more info in a pm. Don't want to derail this thread with what may be construed as a pitch.  Grin


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████BREAKOUT STAKEWEBSITEMULTICURRENCY SMART CONTRACTS + SIDECHAINS ANN ★  COINSALE July 10 – July 24  ████
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