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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201686 times)
rjk
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May 11, 2012, 02:07:29 PM
 #41

the theft won't "devalue" Bitcoins.  even if the thief sells it's just another buying opportunity and might cause a temporary dip in the price.  but that's assuming he wants to sell.  he could be long term speculator like the rest of us hoping the price goes to $100 before he unloads.  at the very least it will take him time to sell to get the right price and there's also the possibility mtgox intervenes once again.  the only one's who will take a loss here are Zhou and possibly some of his customers.
But of course it will, doc, even if they buy the Bitcoins back at market! Hackers are not speculators, just think about every hack that has happened in Bitcoin’s history and the dumping that followed therafter (it is not as easy anymore since Gox collaborates to track stolen coins, but they just arbitrage it from a different exchange, and I suspect it is usually BTC-E.com). In addition, there is the breach of confidence that this currency is perhaps nothing but a collective subsidy to hackers.
Quit trolling, asswipe. Unfounded accusations aren't cool. Also, you are the hacker, send me the money Tongue


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bulanula
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May 11, 2012, 02:10:02 PM
 #42

the theft won't "devalue" Bitcoins.  even if the thief sells it's just another buying opportunity and might cause a temporary dip in the price.  but that's assuming he wants to sell.  he could be long term speculator like the rest of us hoping the price goes to $100 before he unloads.  at the very least it will take him time to sell to get the right price and there's also the possibility mtgox intervenes once again.  the only one's who will take a loss here are Zhou and possibly some of his customers.
But of course it will, doc, even if they buy the Bitcoins back at market! Hackers are not speculators, just think about every hack that has happened in Bitcoin’s history and the dumping that followed therafter (it is not as easy anymore since Gox collaborates to track stolen coins, but they just arbitrage it from a different exchange, and I suspect it is usually BTC-E.com). In addition, there is the breach of confidence that this currency is perhaps nothing but a collective subsidy to hackers.

Any evidence for this Huh

Or just anti-russian FUDge ?

I guess the big question is :



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May 11, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
 #43

I am not accusing BTC-E of commiting any hacks. The only thing I am claiming is that it is interesting there were Bitcoins offered for sale there very cheaply right after the previous 45k Bitcoinica hack for quite a while.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
unclescrooge
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May 11, 2012, 02:12:55 PM
 #44

the theft won't "devalue" Bitcoins.  even if the thief sells it's just another buying opportunity and might cause a temporary dip in the price.  but that's assuming he wants to sell.  he could be long term speculator like the rest of us hoping the price goes to $100 before he unloads.  at the very least it will take him time to sell to get the right price and there's also the possibility mtgox intervenes once again.  the only one's who will take a loss here are Zhou and possibly some of his customers.
But of course it will, doc, even if they buy the Bitcoins back at market! Hackers are not speculators, just think about every hack that has happened in Bitcoin’s history and the dumping that followed therafter (it is not as easy anymore since Gox collaborates to track stolen coins, but they just arbitrage it from a different exchange, and I suspect it is usually BTC-E.com). In addition, there is the breach of confidence that this currency is perhaps nothing but a collective subsidy to hackers.

Please stop bullshiting, what you says doesn't make any sense.

Bitcoinica got hacked, so what, it happens all the time to lots of compagny. I don't see how this devalues bitcoin, I don't see how bitcoinica activities devalues bitcoin, and... fuck I don't understand your points.

If ebay get hacked that devalues dollars?

Raoul Duke
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May 11, 2012, 02:13:13 PM
 #45

I am not accusing BTC-E of commiting any hacks. The only thing I am claiming is that it is interesting there were Bitcoins offered for sale there very cheaply right after the previous 45k Bitcoinica hack for quite a while.

Ofcourse. Do you know any other exhange that offers webmoney withdrawals? Wink

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May 11, 2012, 02:19:07 PM
 #46

Like I said in my edited post, IF you don't reimburse your customers I will want to see you and all of Intersango staff wearing a scammer tag, and genjix(or anyone connected with Intersango) kicked out of the Bitcoin dev team. That's all! You're no better than Tom Williams if you don't fully reimburse your customers.

This is the first we have heard of this attack (on the forums just now). zhoutong did not even tell us yet. We were gradually assuming control of Bitcoinica over the last weeks by setting up a new platform.

There shouldn't even be that much money in the live wallet. I'm waiting to get more information before saying more though. This is kind of ridiculous considering that already money was lost on Linode. The big question going through my head is why was that much money being stored on a Rackspace server.

I am angry that our name is being dragged through the mud for something we had no part in.
bulanula
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May 11, 2012, 02:20:24 PM
 #47

Like I said in my edited post, IF you don't reimburse your customers I will want to see you and all of Intersango staff wearing a scammer tag, and genjix(or anyone connected with Intersango) kicked out of the Bitcoin dev team. That's all! You're no better than Tom Williams if you don't fully reimburse your customers.

This is the first we have heard of this attack (on the forums just now). zhoutong did not even tell us yet. We were gradually assuming control of Bitcoinica over the last weeks by setting up a new platform.

There shouldn't even be that much money in the live wallet. I'm waiting to get more information before saying more though. This is kind of ridiculous considering that already money was lost on Linode. The big question going through my head is why was that much money being stored on a Rackspace server.


Bitcoinica, the definition of incompetence.

Can we blacklist teh coinz?
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May 11, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
 #48

Please stop bullshiting, what you says doesn't make any sense.

Bitcoinica got hacked, so what, it happens all the time to lots of compagny. I don't see how this devalues bitcoin, I don't see how bitcoinica activities devalues bitcoin, and... fuck I don't understand your points.

If ebay get hacked that devalues dollars?
I see you must be quite new to Bitcoin. Have you experienced what happened when MyBitcoin was allegedly robbed? MtGox? Bitcoin7? Hell, I don’t even know many of them anymore.

It affects Bitcoin more than the USD because the amount of BTC stolen would equal a gigantic sum of USD when you compare the money supplies. Currently 18k BTC is 0.2% (ONE FIVE HUNDREDTH OF THE BITCOIN ECONOMY!) of the total Bitcoins, which would equal 2 trillion USD if you take the M2 money supply (someone correct me if my math is wrong) Oh, and don’t forget, the US Dollar is actually an established currency and does not try to recruit new users. Your analogy is faulty.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 11, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
 #49

Like I said in my edited post, IF you don't reimburse your customers I will want to see you and all of Intersango staff wearing a scammer tag, and genjix(or anyone connected with Intersango) kicked out of the Bitcoin dev team. That's all! You're no better than Tom Williams if you don't fully reimburse your customers.

This is the first we have heard of this attack (on the forums just now). zhoutong did not even tell us yet. We were gradually assuming control of Bitcoinica over the last weeks by setting up a new platform.

There shouldn't even be that much money in the live wallet. I'm waiting to get more information before saying more though. This is kind of ridiculous considering that already money was lost on Linode. The big question going through my head is why was that much money being stored on a Rackspace server.


Bitcoinica, the definition of incompetence.

Can we blacklist teh coinz?

i wouldn't do that.  it was discussed last time.  even though it would increase the value of my coins the damage perception wise to the concept of "decentralization" is not worth the risk.
Kris
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May 11, 2012, 02:22:25 PM
 #50

Zhou you gotta secure your shit man!!!!!!

Did Bitcoinica not have two-factor security in place for withdrawals?

In Yankee words, "secure your shit man!!!!!!" or at least hire me to do it, I am more then willing to share my "Secure Card" code of WalletBit to improve everyone's security.

Secure Card
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e-ducat.fr


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May 11, 2012, 02:22:56 PM
 #51

Margin trading increases liquidity AND volatility.

We all want liquidity but we all know that volatility is one of bitcoin's growing pain.

Liquidity will improve without volatility only with real trade of goods and services NOT with speculative trade on a margin trading platform.
Margin trading bitcoin on a poorly secured platform is a VERY bad idea, detrimental to all of us.

bulanula
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May 11, 2012, 02:25:11 PM
 #52

Margin trading increases liquidity AND volatility.

We all want liquidity but we all know that volatility is one of bitcoin's growing pain.

Liquidity will improve without volatility only with real trade of goods and services NOT with speculative trade on a margin trading platform.
Margin trading bitcoin on a poorly secured platform is a VERY bad idea, detrimental to all of us.

And there I was thinking Bitcoinica was the best thing since sliced bread Cry

What is going to happen with the funds ? Reimbursement or not ?

Got some LOGS to prove you got hacked ? A TX does not show anything !

My ass got hacked too, you know !
kiba
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May 11, 2012, 02:25:23 PM
 #53

There is an awfully lot more noise than signal in this thread.

cypherdoc
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May 11, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
 #54

Please stop bullshiting, what you says doesn't make any sense.

Bitcoinica got hacked, so what, it happens all the time to lots of compagny. I don't see how this devalues bitcoin, I don't see how bitcoinica activities devalues bitcoin, and... fuck I don't understand your points.

If ebay get hacked that devalues dollars?
I see you must be quite new to Bitcoin. Have you experienced what happened when MyBitcoin was allegedly robbed? MtGox? Bitcoin7? Hell, I don’t even know many of them anymore.

It affects Bitcoin more than the USD because the amount of BTC stolen would equal a gigantic sum of USD when you compare the money supplies. Currently 18k BTC is 0.2% (ONE FIVE HUNDREDTH OF THE BITCOIN ECONOMY!) of the total Bitcoins, which would equal 2 trillion USD if you take the M2 money supply (someone correct me if my math is wrong) Oh, and don’t forget, the US Dollar is actually an established currency and does not try to recruit new users. Your analogy is faulty.

first of all, do you see the price dumping?  no.  does it mean it won't?  no. 

but i'd argue we're in a different space and time right now where we're in an uptrend and ppl understand Bitcoin and the trading around it much better. 

some may even view it as a buy the dip opportunity.
rjk
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1ngldh


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May 11, 2012, 02:27:06 PM
 #55

There is an awfully lot more noise than signal in this thread.
Definitely. People are reacting emotionally, not rationally.

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rjk
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1ngldh


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May 11, 2012, 02:28:03 PM
 #56

I am angry that our name is being dragged through the mud for something we had no part in.
i dint see your name dragged in mud, less cry more solutions
You must be either blind or oblivious?

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Raoul Duke
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May 11, 2012, 02:30:45 PM
 #57

Like I said in my edited post, IF you don't reimburse your customers I will want to see you and all of Intersango staff wearing a scammer tag, and genjix(or anyone connected with Intersango) kicked out of the Bitcoin dev team. That's all! You're no better than Tom Williams if you don't fully reimburse your customers.

This is the first we have heard of this attack (on the forums just now). zhoutong did not even tell us yet. We were gradually assuming control of Bitcoinica over the last weeks by setting up a new platform.

There shouldn't even be that much money in the live wallet. I'm waiting to get more information before saying more though. This is kind of ridiculous considering that already money was lost on Linode. The big question going through my head is why was that much money being stored on a Rackspace server.

I am angry that our name is being dragged through the mud for something we had no part in.

So, you are still not in control of Bitcoinica?
Then, tell us, who are the decision makers that will decide if customers get reimbursed, as Zhou Tong already pointed out that it would not be his decision but from someone else?

The thread posted on April 24th does say going forward Bitcoin Consultancy will be managing and operating Bitcoinica... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77958.0
Quote
Going forward, Bitcoinca will be managed and operated by the well known Bitcoin Consultancy team.

What does going forward mean to you? One month from now? 2 Months? Do explain...

dogisland
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May 11, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
 #58


We really wanted to keep the blockchain and wallet in MySQL database. But we don't have a technical solution yet. Interacting with the official client is painful.

I have a customized version of BitcoinJ that does just that. It also deploys to heroku. PM if you want to know more.

If you have been compromised then somehow they've got on to your server. Consider implementing 2 factor SSH take a look here http://www.mnxsolutions.com/security/two-factor-ssh-with-google-authenticator.html. At least then you'll get a notification when anyone attempts to login to your bitcoind server.

Also zhoutong, you're quite a public figure in this community and everyone know Bitcoinica is doing well. You are going to come under attack and you're only as secure as your easiest access point. You'll have to audit your security all the way back to any machine that connects to your servers, I'm thinking developer laptops and so on.

Hope this helps.

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May 11, 2012, 02:33:35 PM
 #59

I am angry that our name is being dragged through the mud for something we had no part in.
According to your words, you guys did receive Bitcoinica shares as part of the new collaboration.

I understand though that it’s not your guys fault, just pointing out that you suffer from it financially since you are stakeholders.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
terrytibbs
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May 11, 2012, 02:35:42 PM
 #60

http://i.imgur.com/qAv0i.png
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