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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201974 times)
muyuu
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May 12, 2012, 01:38:22 PM
 #401


If the mail server was not theirs, relying on a foreign mail server for root password resets is so stupid this counts as compromised**2.

-coinft.

They didn't. They're still not in charge of operations.

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forum tea fund BTC 1Epv7KHbNjYzqYVhTCgXWYhGSkv7BuKGEU DOGE DF1eTJ2vsxjHpmmbKu9jpqsrg5uyQLWksM CAP F1MzvmmHwP2UhFq82NQT7qDU9NQ8oQbtkQ
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May 12, 2012, 01:39:55 PM
 #402

If I am not mistaken the message is (adding missing "0" at the end and converting to ASCII):

"expect mass leak soon"


No, you are not mistaken:

They are on the move again.

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/5484758/c141115ff13ad9331e0d46776d850f06083a60fab88b15a2a2df35f2fdf565da

Seven 2600 btc transactions, and that one for 347.66367623 BTC goes to
http://blockchain.info/address/1EMLwAwseowTkDtKnEHRKrwQvzi4HShxSX  which then has splits into a bunch of smaller transactions. WTF? how do you follow this many splits?

found something strange while following the stolen coins.  Sent from the thief to many small accounts and one large one.
 http://blockchain.info/address/1EMLwAwseowTkDtKnEHRKrwQvzi4HShxSX

1.01100101 BTC
2.01111 BTC
3.0111 BTC
4.01100101 BTC
5.01100011 BTC
6.011101 BTC
7.001 BTC
116.4569963 BTC
8.01101101 BTC
9.01100001 BTC
10.01110011 BTC
11.01110011 BTC
12.001 BTC
13.011011 BTC
14.01100101 BTC
15.01100001 BTC
16.01101011 BTC
17.001 BTC
18.01110011 BTC
19.01101111 BTC
20.01101111 BTC
21.0110111 BTC

Why would they split it up like that?  are they trying to hide it by making it whole bunch of small transfers?


He's just fucking with you. The 8 digit remainder is binary. Convert the first 7 to ascii and you get "expect <space>".

Edit: the whole 21 characters spell "expect mass leak soon".

Edit 2: and given the first three characters of the address are EML, it might have been a vanity account.

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May 12, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
 #403

privately held and registered company doesn't have an obligation to disclose who its owners are. all that matters that Bitcoinaca LLC caries its liabilities before their customers.

+1

No, actually -10000.

Where people get this strange idea that all you have to do is invent a legal fiction and somehow you can hide behind it and offload your responsibility on to it.  Huh The state sure has done a swell job in indoctrinating people with this kind of lunacy.  Roll Eyes

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the company is the owner and the owner is the company. And if an owner wants to hide behind a legal fiction and somehow pretend he is not liable I'm simply not going to do business with him. People who want to ensure the maximum integrity for themselves when making market transaction should follow my advice or accept the risk of getting screwed sooner or later.  Cool

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May 12, 2012, 01:58:47 PM
 #404

now news of a competitor for btca
http://www.thebitcointrader.com/
edit: yesterday's news apparently - sry

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May 12, 2012, 02:08:43 PM
 #405

now news of a competitor for btca
http://www.thebitcointrader.com/
Stop wasting my time with old articles.
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May 12, 2012, 02:24:32 PM
 #406


sry, was news to me, maybe it's why Bitcoinica are throwing in the towel if they are, so it is relevant to this discussion

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May 12, 2012, 02:39:36 PM
 #407

privately held and registered company doesn't have an obligation to disclose who its owners are. all that matters that Bitcoinaca LLC caries its liabilities before their customers.

+1

No, actually -10000.

Where people get this strange idea that all you have to do is invent a legal fiction and somehow you can hide behind it and offload your responsibility on to it.  Huh The state sure has done a swell job in indoctrinating people with this kind of lunacy.  Roll Eyes

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the company is the owner and the owner is the company. And if an owner wants to hide behind a legal fiction and somehow pretend he is not liable I'm simply not going to do business with him. People who want to ensure the maximum integrity for themselves when making market transaction should follow my advice or accept the risk of getting screwed sooner or later.  Cool

only legal entity has responsibility before their customers, in this case it's Bitcoinica LLC
owners don't matter, they may or may not even be in day to day dealings of the company.  screaming for owners just derails this thread.

Bitcoinica has been hit hard, they're not running from the issue, their representative, Zhoutong came on here making public announcement of the problem and in recent posts said that customer funds will be covered at their own loss. The real questions that matter in here is what actually happened, what measures will be taken in the future to prevent such occurrences and their immediate steps regarding customer funds.  anything else is just bs noise that hasn't anything to do with this.
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May 12, 2012, 02:40:35 PM
 #408

I never really liked Bitcoinica or more specifically the people involved that harp on about 'regulating' bitcoin. Sorry Charlie, I don't think they're the good guys.

That said, I'll be more than happy to take some tainted coins.

1M611UzMKzswrMLJMdPHonsi4SqhNAc33G
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May 12, 2012, 02:45:16 PM
 #409

so my bitcoins are gone forever?  why would I want to use it then if I can't get stolen bitcoins back?

Make sure you stop using cash and gold too.
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May 12, 2012, 02:51:19 PM
 #410

Zhou - very glad to hear the funds are being compensated in full by Bitcoinica. People seem to only be harking on the unknowns and complaining about them, when the most important factor has been addressed.
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May 12, 2012, 02:52:44 PM
 #411

Where people get this strange idea that all you have to do is invent a legal fiction and somehow you can hide behind it and offload your responsibility on to it.  Huh The state sure has done a swell job in indoctrinating people with this kind of lunacy.  Roll Eyes

So the concept of corporations (to include LLC and other discrete economic entities) is lunacy?  If you are an American that is especially ironinc.  It was corporations (and the economic shield they provide) that allowed the risk of long range exploration to occur.  The founding of the colonies was a direct result of that financial construct. 

Barring a proven act of criminal malfeasance any responsibility or obligation lies with the entity you are doing business with.  You ignorance of that fact doesn't change the legal standing.

Quote
I'm sorry to break it to you, but the company is the owner and the owner is the company.

Hate to break it to you but that is not true.  A corporation is a distinct legal and economic entity.  It can exist outside of its founders.  It can continue to exist even if its owners change or the original owners die.

Quote
And if an owner wants to hide behind a legal fiction and somehow pretend he is not liable I'm simply not going to do business with him.

So you do no business with any corporation?  How are you online?  Please give me the name of your sole proprietor ISP.

Quote
People who want to ensure the maximum integrity for themselves when making market transaction should follow my advice or accept the risk of getting screwed sooner or later.  Cool

I guess you own no stocks, bonds, commodities, or forex accounts either because I am pretty sure no sole-proprietorship or partnerships have a seat on any major exchange.
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May 12, 2012, 02:54:42 PM
 #412

Well DeathAndTaxes won that round. Ding!

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May 12, 2012, 02:55:10 PM
 #413

privately held and registered company doesn't have an obligation to disclose who its owners are. all that matters that Bitcoinaca LLC caries its liabilities before their customers.

+1

No, actually -10000.

Where people get this strange idea that all you have to do is invent a legal fiction and somehow you can hide behind it and offload your responsibility on to it.  Huh The state sure has done a swell job in indoctrinating people with this kind of lunacy.  Roll Eyes

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the company is the owner and the owner is the company. And if an owner wants to hide behind a legal fiction and somehow pretend he is not liable I'm simply not going to do business with him. People who want to ensure the maximum integrity for themselves when making market transaction should follow my advice or accept the risk of getting screwed sooner or later.  Cool

only legal entity has responsibility before their customers, in this case it's Bitcoinica LLC
owners don't matter, they may or may not even be in day to day dealings of the company.  screaming for owners just derails this thread.

Bitcoinica has been hit hard, they're not running from the issue, their representative, Zhoutong came on here making public announcement of the problem and in recent posts said that customer funds will be covered at their own loss. The real questions that matter in here is what actually happened, what measures will be taken in the future to prevent such occurrences and their immediate steps regarding customer funds.  anything else is just bs noise that hasn't anything to do with this.

This is utter rubbish. I'm sorry but I'm not falling for your delusions. The owner is the company and the company is the owner. Period. It's just common sense. Only a monopoly on violence could possibly say otherwise being in bed with the owner and protecting his ass which is what corporations are.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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May 12, 2012, 02:56:44 PM
 #414

This is utter rubbish. I'm sorry but I'm not falling for your delusions. The owner is the company and the company is the owner. Period. It's just common sense. Only a monopoly on violence could possibly say otherwise being in bed with the owner and protecting his ass which is what corporations are.
It's about minimizing risks in order to be able to provide services and products to consumers like yourself.
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May 12, 2012, 03:00:32 PM
 #415

Nothing against the original Bitcoinica people but your comment is 100% on the money. A BTC-only margin exchange would not have had any regulation requirements. cryptoanarchist has it right --- Compliance is antithetical to bitcoin and it will be used against those that participate.
Then who wrote this article to promote this bucket shop just a few weeks ago: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/04/21/bitcoinica-registers-in-new-zealand-for-bitcoin-margin-trading/

I was very disappointed to see both you and Max Keiser praising it.

Bitcoinica was always a disaster waiting to happen just like MyBitcoin(ica), and any high leverage Bitcoin bucket shop will be. It should be shunned, not promoted just like MyBitcoin should have been since the risk is incalculable.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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May 12, 2012, 03:01:05 PM
 #416

I have repeatedly told people that Bitcoinica is a scam and that Bitcoinica staff should be banned from the forums.

Maybe now people will actually listen.

Bitcoinica is a regulated entity, verifiable by government records. We are one of the most legitimate businesses in Bitcoin community, by any standard.

I second that, and vouch for Zhou and the Bitcoinica team.
I refuse to give people who donate 64k BTC to hackers and devalue all of our Bitcoins any credence.

Hopefully the reward will attract even more hackers!

+1billyon

Implement measures that make getting zhou-hacked less damaging.
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May 12, 2012, 03:01:53 PM
 #417

Where people get this strange idea that all you have to do is invent a legal fiction and somehow you can hide behind it and offload your responsibility on to it.  Huh The state sure has done a swell job in indoctrinating people with this kind of lunacy.  Roll Eyes

So the concept of corporations (to include LLC and other discrete economic entities) is lunacy?

Absofkinglutely.

Quote
I'm sorry to break it to you, but the company is the owner and the owner is the company.

Hate to break it to you but that is 100% not true.  A corporation is a distintic legal and economic entity.  It can exist outside of its founders.  It can continue to exist even if its owners change or the original owners die.

I'm not going to participate in your delusion. The owner(s) is(are) the company and the company is(are) the owner(s) even if they change through time. You can't transfer your liability to a legal fiction and be taken seriously, what we have today is only possible because a monopoly on violence says so.

Quote
And if an owner wants to hide behind a legal fiction and somehow pretend he is not liable I'm simply not going to do business with him.

So you do no business with any corporation?  How are you online?  Please give me the name of the sole proprietor ISP.

If I had the freedom you can be damn sure I wouldn't deal with someone trying to hide behind a legal fiction. But I don't, I am like everyone else, a slave under a monopoly on violence and I can only use what this monopoly allows me to use. Unfortunately for the state Bitcoin doesn't care for their monopoly on violence and might just end it eventually.

Quote
People who want to ensure the maximum integrity for themselves when making market transaction should follow my advice or accept the risk of getting screwed sooner or later.  Cool

I guess you own no stocks, bonds, commodities, or forex accounts either because I am pretty sure no sole-proprietorship or partnerships have a seat on any major exchange.

There can be various ownership structures it doesn't change the fact that a company is not a being of it's own carrying it's own liability. No matter the structure the owners are the company. Period.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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May 12, 2012, 03:04:30 PM
 #418

This is utter rubbish. I'm sorry but I'm not falling for your delusions. The owner is the company and the company is the owner. Period. It's just common sense. Only a monopoly on violence could possibly say otherwise being in bed with the owner and protecting his ass which is what corporations are.
It's about minimizing risks in order to be able to provide services and products to consumers like yourself.

Minimizing risk is what causes most problem the world knows today. If the risk factor wasn't so diminished and even removed there is no way the current financial crisis could have gotten as big and destructive as it did. Unfortunately most people are completely oblivious to human nature and how destructive moral hazard to a market is. 

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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May 12, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
 #419

I was very disappointed to see both you and Max Keiser praising it.

Bitcoinica was always a disaster waiting to happen just like MyBitcoin(ica), and any high leverage Bitcoin bucket shop will be.

Of course, I support Bitcoinica and the concept of leveraged speculating/hedging. We need more of them (regulated and unregulated so you can pick your flavour). You may not see it but large entities are planning on entering the bitcoin economy in a major way; margin exchanges allow them to hedge their currency exposure without having to sell out of their BTC positions.

A regulated entity does not always inspire trust. Just look at the poor MF Global customers.

Founding Director, Bitcoin Foundation
I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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May 12, 2012, 03:12:29 PM
 #420

This is utter rubbish. I'm sorry but I'm not falling for your delusions. The owner is the company and the company is the owner. Period. It's just common sense. Only a monopoly on violence could possibly say otherwise being in bed with the owner and protecting his ass which is what corporations are.
It's about minimizing risks in order to be able to provide services and products to consumers like yourself.

Minimizing risk is what causes most problem the world knows today. If the risk factor wasn't so diminished and even removed there is no way the current financial crisis could have gotten as big and destructive as it did. Unfortunately most people are completely oblivious to human nature and how destructive moral hazard to a market is. 

That's just it, the risk wasn't minimized, it was simply rebranded and passed to someone else.

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