When quoting small amounts of bitcoin, how do you call 100 satoshis?

[h4xx0r]

i think the well known term is 1 bit for 100 satoshi

Not many people agree with that.

Never heard the term myself. I did like a previous posters suggestion for referring to micro-btc as "mikes". kinda catchy.

[rgenito]

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

[teukon]

Never heard the term myself. I did like a previous posters suggestion for referring to micro-btc as "mikes". kinda catchy.

"mikes" as a nickname for microbitcoins is a fairly old suggestion.  Check out this nomenclature discussion from Feb 2011?

[R2D221]

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

What's the reasoning of using “bits” for 0.000001, rather than 0.00001 or 0.0000001?

[rgenito]

Whatever unit you decide to adopt, I recommend appending the price in bitcoins in paretheses, perhaps in grey text or a smaller font.  If you find this too cluttered you might consider a tool-tip.

For example:
    35 µBTC  (0.000 035 BTC)

Good point!

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

What's the reasoning of using “bits” for 0.000001, rather than 0.00001 or 0.0000001?

Although not perfect, I know this article summed it up pretty well. Basically, the idea is to have 2 digits "past the decimal point"; something that most people are already familiar. So if 1 bit ever becomes worth 1 USD (or even 0.1 bits becomes worth 1 USD), people can work with a currency unit that they are somewhat familiar with. I'm assuming that most currencies use 2 digits after the decimal point for real-world transactions, but I honestly don't know if this is the case. Sounds good Decide for yourself:

http://www.coindesk.com/breaking-down-btc-bit-by-bit/

I'm a happy user of "bits", and it's making sense to me to think of exchange rates as "I can get 2,500 bits for $1"

[dogtor]

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

Here's the reasoning they shouldn't use 'bit' ------>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit

A bit is the basic unit of information in computing and digital communications.


and 'bit' is an International Electrotechnical Commission's standard unit -------> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60027

[ANTIcentralized]

I use:

1 BTC: one bitcoin
0.1 BTC: ten bitcents or zero point one bitcoins
0.01 BTC: one bitcent
0.001 BTC: one millibit
0.0001 BTC: ten thousand satoshis
0.00001 BTC: one thousand satoshis
0.000001 BTC: one hundred satoshis, one microbit or one mike
0.0000001 BTC: ten satoshis
0.00000001 BTC: one satoshi (obviously)

So I voted for "100 satoshis".

This is probably one of the better answers on the thread, however I do think it still complicates things.

I personally think satoshis should be used for up to 1k satashis at which point you should use the decimal number worth of bitcoin. For example .0001 BTC is "point oh oh oh one". There is somewhat of an argument to use bitcents when dealing in amounts divisible by .01 (but not above 1 btc)

[Waramp22]

i think the well known term is 1 bit for 100 satoshi

Not many people agree with that.

There is a poll on these forums where the "bit" won by a long shot. Let me track it down...

Here is one of them... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594575.0
And another...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=593705.0

Can't find the best poll. It had many choices and bit was the favorite. Can anyone find it?

[rapta]

I don't really get this short name stuff, I prefer to say 100 sats.

[teukon]

There is a poll on these forums where the "bit" won by a long shot. Let me track it down...

Here is one of them... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594575.0
And another...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=593705.0

Can't find the best poll. It had many choices and bit was the favorite. Can anyone find it?

I think you're after this.

[Waramp22]

There is a poll on these forums where the "bit" won by a long shot. Let me track it down...

Here is one of them... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594575.0
And another...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=593705.0

Can't find the best poll. It had many choices and bit was the favorite. Can anyone find it?

I think you're after this.

There it is. A little different than i remembered.

My thinking is that if we go with the bit, the satoshis become the "cents" to the bit. Bit just makes sense to me. Its easy to say, and its a "just a bit" of a bitcoin.

If we dont migrate down and make the 100 satoshi unit the new standard very soon, society will be forced to relearn the new unit of measure every few years because when the price doubles or triples we will start dropping decimal places.

If i go online and see a computer for sale for 4,600 satoshis, I can compare that to a tank of fuel that may cost 900 satoshis and get a sense of value. .00004600 is just difficult to compare to .00000900  because of all the decimal places.

[KingOfTrolls]

Thanks for your comments!

Your customers will have a far better idea than me or you. I'd suggest providing a mechanism for them to choose what they're comfortable with - just like eCommerce sites offering users a choice of currency - and use a sensible default (either BTC or - probably better for small amounts - Satoshi).

Yes, in general, this would be the best idea.

However, my users won't sign-up: I want to remove this entry barrier.
Instead, I intend to integrate with microwallet.org, such that users' payouts are sent to microwallet, where they can accumulate.

No sign-up means that I'll have to find one choice that's accepted by everyone.

Whatever unit you decide to adopt, I recommend appending the price in bitcoins in paretheses, perhaps in grey text or a smaller font.  If you find this too cluttered you might consider a tool-tip.

For example:
    35 µBTC  (0.000 035 BTC)

Yes, I consider making a footnote or tool-tip.
A part of the purpose of this topic is to find out how far these units are understood and how much an explainer is needed.




I really like your ideas in this thread!

Keep 'em comin'!

[R2D221]

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

What's the reasoning of using “bits” for 0.000001, rather than 0.00001 or 0.0000001?

Although not perfect, I know this article summed it up pretty well. Basically, the idea is to have 2 digits "past the decimal point"; something that most people are already familiar. So if 1 bit ever becomes worth 1 USD (or even 0.1 bits becomes worth 1 USD), people can work with a currency unit that they are somewhat familiar with. I'm assuming that most currencies use 2 digits after the decimal point for real-world transactions, but I honestly don't know if this is the case. Sounds good Decide for yourself:

http://www.coindesk.com/breaking-down-btc-bit-by-bit/

I'm a happy user of "bits", and it's making sense to me to think of exchange rates as "I can get 2,500 bits for $1"

That explains having a unit (whatever name the unit has) with two decimal places. However, I still can't see the connection with specifically “bits” with specifically “0.000001”.

[R2D221]

There is a poll on these forums where the "bit" won by a long shot. Let me track it down...

Here is one of them... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594575.0
And another...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=593705.0

Can't find the best poll. It had many choices and bit was the favorite. Can anyone find it?

Biased polls are biased. From all of them, “bits” is the least bad, not precisely the best.

[R2D221]

I think you're after this.

The most biased of them all

[KingOfTrolls]

There is a poll on these forums where the "bit" won by a long shot. Let me track it down...

Here is one of them... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=594575.0
And another...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=593705.0

Can't find the best poll. It had many choices and bit was the favorite. Can anyone find it?

Biased polls are biased. From all of them, “bits” is the least bad, not precisely the best.

In my opinion, the first of the two polls that you've quoted is not biased.


However, looking at the polls from that time, I'm now puzzled to see that none of them offered the option "100 satoshis".

...why did no one come up with that idea?

[rgenito]

That explains having a unit (whatever name the unit has) with two decimal places. However, I still can't see the connection with specifically “bits” with specifically “0.000001”.

Ah ok, I think I can help you find that connection. Let's use all digits to describe an amount in "Bitcoin":

0.12345678

How many "bits" is this? Given that there are a *total* of this many currency units:

12,345,678

These are the actual (and current) non-divisible, *functional* amount of units -- described today as "satoshi". Therefore:

0.12345678 Bitcoin = 12,345,678 satoshi

Where do we get "bits"? Let's only allow a maximum of 2 digits past the decimal point. To do this, divide the smallest units by 100, and we will call this new decimal placement the "bit" unit. "bits" as the plural version:

12,345,678 satoshi / 100 = 123,456.78 bits

So you might ask yourself, "wait... how many bits is in a bitcoin then? "

1.23456789 BTC = 1 million and 234,567.89 bits.

So basically, everything past the decimal point of the BTC unit is the "number of thousands" of bits. For example:

0.435 BTC = 435,000 bits.

I've only actually run through a process like this with maybe a couple dozen people: everyone gets it; however, 1 person sticks in my mind as very insecure about their math ability and skeptical to whether or not they'll figure it out on their own. Others could have felt this way, too. Anyhoo, I hope this explanation helps, and I hope it inspires others as a way to teach people about "Bitcoin" and "bits". I say we just use bits ... your common person rarely transactions 1 BTC worth in a single transaction (today about 340 USD) ... unless they're in the USA buying a new television that they saved up for

(edit: added unit amount missing)

Your average person should refer to it as "1 bit"; here's reasoning:

"100 satoshi" -- 6 syllables, sounds foreign to the english speaker.

"1 bit" -- 2 syllables, sounds like a small amount (which "a bit" is considered a small amount in the english language).

"1 microbitcoin" -- 5 syllables (only useful for starting or ending a haiku), and your average person (sadly) has no idea what unit size a "micro" is.

Here's the reasoning they shouldn't use 'bit' ------>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit

A bit is the basic unit of information in computing and digital communications.


and 'bit' is an International Electrotechnical Commission's standard unit -------> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60027

this is hardly a reason not to use a unit called "bit" because it's all about context. (If you understand more than one language, you'll realize how important context is.) For example, if I ask you to pay me 2500 bits for a can of Coca Cola, you *know* I'm not asking you to send me 312.5 bytes of information. It's pretty obvious because of the context.

Besides, using the "bit" unit is all about interfacing with your *common* person. The reality is, your common person has no idea that 8 bits is 1 byte. Your common person has no idea what a byte is.... and people who *do* know what a bit (in the byte context) is, they're smart enough to figure out that "bit" can have a financial context.

To sum it up: what unit should we use to *help* the common person? After all, it is the entirety of the common people that will determine bitcoin's fate. I'll let my intellect take an ego stab *any* day if it means Bitcoin will be used by more people... so obviously, I vote "bits"

[R2D221]

That explains having a unit (whatever name the unit has) with two decimal places. However, I still can't see the connection with specifically “bits” with specifically “0.000001”.

Ah ok, I think I can help you find that connection. Let's use all digits to describe an amount in "Bitcoin":

0.12345678

How many "bits" is this? Given that there are a *total* of this many currency units:

12,345,678

These are the actual (and current) non-divisible, *functional* amount of units -- described today as "satoshi". Therefore:

0.12345678 Bitcoin = 12,345,678 satoshi

Where do we get "bits"? Let's only allow a maximum of 2 digits past the decimal point. To do this, divide the smallest units by 100, and we will call this new decimal placement the "bit" unit. "bits" as the plural version:

12,345,678 satoshi / 100 = 123,456.78 bits

So you might ask yourself, "wait... how many bits is in a bitcoin then? "

1.23456789 BTC = 1 million and 234,567.89 bits.

So basically, everything past the decimal point of the BTC unit is the "number of thousands" of bits. For example:

0.435 BTC = 435,000 bits.

I've only actually run through a process like this with maybe a couple dozen people: everyone gets it; however, 1 person sticks in my mind as very insecure about their math ability and skeptical to whether or not they'll figure it out on their own. Others could have felt this way, too. Anyhoo, I hope this explanation helps, and I hope it inspires others as a way to teach people about "Bitcoin" and "bits". I say we just use bits ... your common person rarely transactions 1 BTC worth in a single transaction (today about 340 USD) ... unless they're in the USA buying a new television that they saved up for

This explanation is still just about the benefits of using 0.000001 as the base unit. In all this explanation, there's no reason why the name couldn't be “mikes” with the same level of clarity.

[franky1]

in the dollar world no one says "zero point zero one dollars" thus the whole decimal system DOES need a common name for the small stuff.
some say penny some say cent.

after all small gold measures are not measures in millitonnes or microtonnes. they are measured in grams and ounces. so far the main buzz words are 'bit' and then 'finney'

i personally say 'bit', even though right now its still hard to do a single transaction of a 'bit' unless its part of a multisend. thus not everyone is using it as a common place name or decided their preference, due to their lack of personal need to. but as bitcoin continues to develop and coins begin to spread amongst more adopters the need for a small measure name will increase.

but one thing is for sure, seeing a faucet advertised as "giving free bitcoins" yet the reality being dust(random decimal) amounts is bad and i would have to say in that scenario it would be advantageous to use a term to describe smaller measure would benefit the OP now

i use the term dust(random decimal) or sats(precise decimal) if the amount is not exactly in increments of 0.00000100. just like people dont say that $0.56 is 11 nickels and 1 cent. or 5 dimes and 6 cent, they simply say 56cents.

so there is still a need for "satoshi's" but a name for 100 sats is also needed. and i think for long term understanding and future-proofing peoples comfort zones a bottom up (satoshi -> bitcoin) is easier to manage rather than a top down (bitcoin -> satoshi) as no one wants to be saying "Point Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh One Oh Oh Bee Tee Cee" as it sounds more like something you would say in bed, not a shop

so satoshi's, bits/finneys, other measures can all work happily together. alot better that the 'oh oh oh oh' orgasm screams, that people find harder to measure with so many zero's

[jaitor]

It should be used the standard international prefix, which is:

deci   d   0.1
centi   c   0.01
milli   m   0.001
micro     μ   0.000001