BitPiggy - bank account locked (again) 16th May 2012

[miernik]

For A
i) Delay sending of bitcoins, to give banks enough time to report stolen funds. Considering it took ~10 days for UBank to tell me stolen funds had been sent my way, this doesn't sound feasible.
ii) Only serve people who have successfully made orders in the past. This works for old users, but doesn't help legitimate new people.

Have you considered one of the things I proposed in this thread?
For example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82045.msg906946#msg906946

Shortly again:
1) any new bank account from which a user wants to deposit must be validated
2) user validates the account by posting the account number in a form in his account on BitPiggy, and they YOU send him a small (like 0.17 AUD) transfer to this account with text in the description: "Use this code: PJ9D43ZR to allow funding your account on BitPiggy.com from this bank account"
3) when user receives the transfer from you he enters the code on your website
4) then you wait 30 days to give time for the real account owner to notice the transaction on his bank statement in case it was done by a cracker
5) after 30 days it becomes validated and the user can deposit from that account later on instantly

Please do not use any "B" methods - it creates uncertainty for legitimate users, and will inevitably lead to becoming another Paypal-like nightmare, where you can first deposit funds, and then are locked, with many false positives.

Once funds are credited to the exchange they should be deemed clean, and if you are not sure a deposit is legitimate (i.e. has been done by the real account owner, just return it to where it came from.

[BitPiggy]

Our bank account has been unlocked.

Pending orders have been processed. Again, thank you for your patience. As mentioned previously on this thread, creating new orders is still on hold until we make new arrangements.

Cheers,
~Mat

[BitPiggy]

Have you considered one of the things I proposed in this thread?
For example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82045.msg906946#msg906946

Shortly again:
1) any new bank account from which a user wants to deposit must be validated
2) user validates the account by posting the account number in a form in his account on BitPiggy, and they YOU send him a small (like 0.17 AUD) transfer to this account with text in the description: "Use this code: PJ9D43ZR to allow funding your account on BitPiggy.com from this bank account"
3) when user receives the transfer from you he enters the code on your website
4) then you wait 30 days to give time for the real account owner to notice the transaction on his bank statement in case it was done by a cracker
5) after 30 days it becomes validated and the user can deposit from that account later on instantly

Yep, I got some of my ideas from your earlier suggestion. The waiting 30 days would certainly ensure the person was legitimate.  The other stuff of the person checking a deposit I make in their account a.k.a. PayPal style, doesn't get much- previous hackers clearly had access to the person's bank account, and over several days if not longer. 

Please do not use any "B" methods - it creates uncertainty for legitimate users, and will inevitably lead to becoming another Paypal-like nightmare, where you can first deposit funds, and then are locked, with many false positives.

I understand the concern. I should point out BitPiggy functions more like a shop than a bank. Hence there's no funds to lock. Rather, users would be prevented from making orders (or at least the amounts + timing would be restrictive) in the first place if the use was not trusted enough.

[fsgr]

All that needs to done is devise a way to whitelist customers, without it becoming too much hassle because that is Bitpiggy's strength, that is easy and simple to do.

What I would do first is whitelist all customers that have used the Bitpiggy service and open backup.

Next I would get bank accounts at all four major banks and suggest people transfer money to the same bank as their own, then maybe same day transfer of btc could be possible instead of 24 hour wait. (overcoming a shortcoming of bitpiggy)

Next is growing the whitelist of good customers, maybe simple things like allowing them to buy 1 btc, then they must wait a week and after that if there is no fruad problem move them to the whitelist. Sure they could still scam a single btc but they risk losing a bank account they have access to for $5.

Goodluck with whatever you do. I have only had very good experiences with Bitpiggy and look forward to them returning.

[caish5]

Bitpiggy can't come back soon enough.
The prices at the competition are no longer "competitive"!

[fsgr]

Bitpiggy can't come back soon enough.
The prices at the competition are no longer "competitive"!

OVER $6 NOW!

[slothbag]

MrBitcoins still selling for under $6

[Jeremy West spendbitcoins.com]

Bitpiggy can't come back soon enough.
The prices at the competition are no longer "competitive"!

If you're talking about us, our prices have not changed. They have always been Mt Gox 24h high + 10%. The problem is that it seems higher as the value of bitcoin rises but in reality it is exactly the same. If bitcoins were selling on Mt Gox for $1 each, our rate would be $1.10, which means that $100 worth of bitcoins would cost you $110. If bitcoins were selling on Mt Gox for $100 each, our rate would be $110, which means $100 worth of bitcoins would cost you $110.

Psychologically it seems more to pay $10 per bitcoin commision that $0.10 per bitcoin commission, but in reality it is exactly the same. I'm thinking about changing the display rate to x +10% so that, for example, at this very moment it would say "5.69 + +10%" instead of "6.31". Would that be psychologically more satisfying for people, especially as prices are rising?

We would love to have lower prices, but unfortunately with wire fees, foreign exchange fees, and exchange rate risk, we have found this rate necessary to stay profitable.

[miernik]

MtBitcoins http://www.mrbitcoins.com/  6.20 AUD
SpendBitcoins https://www.spendbitcoins.com/buy/  6.314 AUD

I can underbid both of you a bit, PM me with volume (min 20 BTC, max depends on your rating) and your offer if interested.

AU bank wire transfers only to AU bank account, no cash deposits!

Trusted users only (some OTC rating or old users on this forum).

[mem]

All that needs to done is devise a way to whitelist customers, without it becoming too much hassle because that is Bitpiggy's strength, that is easy and simple to do.

What I would do first is whitelist all customers that have used the Bitpiggy service and open backup.

Next I would get bank accounts at all four major banks and suggest people transfer money to the same bank as their own, then maybe same day transfer of btc could be possible instead of 24 hour wait. (overcoming a shortcoming of bitpiggy)

Next is growing the whitelist of good customers, maybe simple things like allowing them to buy 1 btc, then they must wait a week and after that if there is no fruad problem move them to the whitelist. Sure they could still scam a single btc but they risk losing a bank account they have access to for $5.

Goodluck with whatever you do. I have only had very good experiences with Bitpiggy and look forward to them returning.

Great suggestions, I to am eagerly awaiting "The return of bitpiggy" (sounds like a cool comedy movie).

[BitPiggy]

BitPiggy is back up and running!

Our new bank account finally got unlocked yesterday, and then this morning I had to do some last minute fixes (bank details were still set to the old bank account!).

For users who have made past orders, you can gain access to your account by choosing to 'reset password' (https://bitpiggy.herokuapp.com/password_resets/new). This will mean the site will recognise your past orders and you'll immediately be able to jump into making large orders.

Things that have changed:

• All users require a log in (email + password). This should hopefully be more convenient then the old style of email verification.
• Limits have been changed + new orders must be 7 days apart. The 7 day limit is a new restriction as a direct result of previous attacks wherein stolen funds were sent to us.

Going forward
From appearances not a lot has changed besides the new log in process. However behind the scenes a lot has changed to make future changes easier.  Those future changes include:

• Adding additional authentication methods, e.g. Facebook/twitter/OTC.
• Reduce the delay between orders + increase limits for users that are authenticated in ways that are more trust worthy.
• Adding additional payment methods.

So yes, we are back!

Please let me know if you experience any issues.
Cheers,
~Mat

Edit: I've moved this post into a new thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90152.0