[ANN] Coinut.com - The only Bitcoin Options Exchange [beta]

[chriswen]

Well that sounds exciting.  It's still probably quite far away.  You'll need to create more vanilla contracts and those will need to be liquid, and there's no point trading a vix if there's no liquidity.

Regarding total volume.  Is that in BTC, or contracts?

Also your UI is nice because its simple and its already quite complex for people who are completely new to options.  But do you plan on creating a more complex UI that'll give more information at your fingertips?  I actually don't have experience with options so I don't know how useful this would be.

[wangxinxi]

Well that sounds exciting.  It's still probably quite far away.  You'll need to create more vanilla contracts and those will need to be liquid, and there's no point trading a vix if there's no liquidity.

Regarding total volume.  Is that in BTC, or contracts?

Also your UI is nice because its simple and its already quite complex for people who are completely new to options.  But do you plan on creating a more complex UI that'll give more information at your fingertips? 

Yeah, we still need to wait for a while. The volume is the number of contract. Each contract is 0.01 BTC at this moment. I am actually thinking about making the interface easier so that even completely new users can also use it.

Since you have given some good suggestions, you don't need to deposit and trade to get into the signature campaign. 

[chriswen]

Options give more profit if the price is volatile. I will start buying options when there is a movement in bitcoin price.

The interesting thing about options is that you can make money when the price isn't volatile unlike futures or margin trading.

Well that sounds exciting.  It's still probably quite far away.  You'll need to create more vanilla contracts and those will need to be liquid, and there's no point trading a vix if there's no liquidity.

Regarding total volume.  Is that in BTC, or contracts?

Also your UI is nice because its simple and its already quite complex for people who are completely new to options.  But do you plan on creating a more complex UI that'll give more information at your fingertips?  

Yeah, we still need to wait for a while. The volume is the number of contract. Each contract is 0.01 BTC at this moment. I am actually thinking about making the interface easier so that even completely new users can also use it.

Since you have given some good suggestions, you don't need to deposit and trade to get into the signature campaign.  

I think the vanilla contracts needs a bit of work.  Right now its really hard for me to understand the interface.

I sort of want to know the break even number.  I have to convert it into a percentage and then multiply it by the price to see the break even price.  Just seeing the price doesn't intuitively tell me a lot.  Maybe I need more experience.  But I think its a big barrier to entry.




Also I'm looking at the times of your contracts.  You have a nice range of times and they'll all line up eventually.

One thing that you could do better, is by creating a new contract when two times lines up.  Currently the 4 hour contract, and the one longer than that are both at the same expiration date.  With the same orderbook.  Instead you should create a new contract for that slightly longer expiration.

I'd suggest doing something similar to okcoin.  This way you won't have a time when all the contracts expire at the same time.

So okcoin does it by the biweekly rolls over into the weeklies, and then a new biweekly is made.  Eventually biweekly expiration will equal quarterly expiration.  When that happens they create a new quarterlies instead of having only two contracts open that week.



Lastly regarding fees, hopefully you'll be decreasing them in the future when you get more liquidity.  Currently I see room for improvement.  2% for binary options and 0.5% for vanilla options.  hm thats probably what's paying for the liquidity right now. 

[Indamuck]

Hey Wang,

Your site looks really cool. I will be funding my new account shortly and make some trades.

I see you are in Singapore, Anson Rd. I spent about a year trading index futures from Singapore ... even stood in the pits for several days. I sort of did it just to get the experience before the pits closed. Another era ...

[chriswen]

Damn, you need a bit more transparency with how your index is calculated.  I hope you don't use btc-e.

I had 99 call/(short put) contracts at 10-15% at 248.  And damn it closed at 247.96.  (could have 6x-10x)



Yeah so you should think about implementing my suggestion about having the longer time frames create a new contract after they line up.  This way you won't eventually have the 4hr , daily, weekly, and biweekly all have the exact same expiry at one point.

And if you do implement that then you should consider adding an 8 hour binary option contract.

[wangxinxi]

Damn, you need a bit more transparency with how your index is calculated.  I hope you don't use btc-e.

I had 99 call/(short put) contracts at 10-15% at 248.  And damn it closed at 247.96.  (could have 6x-10x)



Yeah so you should think about implementing my suggestion about having the longer time frames create a new contract after they line up.  This way you won't eventually have the 4hr , daily, weekly, and biweekly all have the exact same expiry at one point.

And if you do implement that then you should consider adding an 8 hour binary option contract.

Sorry to see that you've lost a small amount. Your idea about time frames is brilliant. We are implementing it right now. Thanks!
About price index, we are right now calculating an average of all major exchanges's bid and ask weighted by their bid and ask amount. Currently, we include Bitstamp, BTC-E, and Bitfinex.

[chriswen]

Did you get the timestamps working? 

I currently see two 2015-05-13 00:00 contracts.

Also BTCVIX (do you know him), he has some good feedback for your site.  He used to be an options trader and he's really big in the Bitcoin space.  He also might be interested in an interview.

[chriswen]

Woah a ton of changes on coinut.  Do you have a full changelog?

Total 24 hours volume is 9982!!!

[Indamuck]

Hi, sending my first modest deposit right now. I'm going to start by selling longer-dated binary puts, and see how it goes. (I'm starting with only some of my online poker winnings, so I can afford to lose it ... lol.)

The very short-dated contracts - you are running them every 30 minutes it seems ... I'm thinking your system isn't going to be able to keep up amid the sort of volatility that BTC has seen in the past. Or maybe your system can keep up, but your liquidity provider will gap the spreads something crazy.

Still, I like your effort.

I would suggest offering very long-dated options, like stock option LEAPS. These best allow for hedging, and the time frame takes more of the short-term gamble out of it.

Sure, the short-term gamblers/traders will bring the volume and pay the bills. That is not me unfortunately, lol. I'd be most interested 3,6, 12-month contracts.

[chriswen]

Hi, sending my first modest deposit right now. I'm going to start by selling longer-dated binary puts, and see how it goes. (I'm starting with only some of my online poker winnings, so I can afford to lose it ... lol.)

The very short-dated contracts - you are running them every 30 minutes it seems ... I'm thinking your system isn't going to be able to keep up amid the sort of volatility that BTC has seen in the past. Or maybe your system can keep up, but your liquidity provider will gap the spreads something crazy.

Still, I like your effort.

I would suggest offering very long-dated options, like stock option LEAPS. These best allow for hedging, and the time frame takes more of the short-term gamble out of it.

Sure, the short-term gamblers/traders will bring the volume and pay the bills. That is not me unfortunately, lol. I'd be most interested 3,6, 12-month contracts.

Yup looks like they created a 30 minute one for the gamblers.

They still have a 4 hour one, daily, weekly, biweekly/monthly (not sure)

Vanilla options just got added recently but I think they'll be adding more contracts in the future.  And before they add long term contracts they'll need to do mid term and then if they are able to get liquidity they'll be able to launch a VIX product.

Also interesting is that they changed option strikes from $2 to $4 which is good.  And they added some more strikes for the shorter term binary options.  I think that's also good and now more stuff can be traded.  Which means a nicer spread in prices.

So 30 min recently switched.  Index is at 236.48 so lets look at the cost of the contract.

1.63x for Calls
1.51x for puts

Those odds are actually quite good.  We'll have to see if the market maker needs to adjust.

And there's a vertical orderbook too so all the liquidity isn't right at the top.

I waiting for a full changelog since they made a lot of changes.

If you're interested in trading at coinut consider using my referral link in my signature.

[Indamuck]

Hi, sending my first modest deposit right now. I'm going to start by selling longer-dated binary puts, and see how it goes. (I'm starting with only some of my online poker winnings, so I can afford to lose it ... lol.)

The very short-dated contracts - you are running them every 30 minutes it seems ... I'm thinking your system isn't going to be able to keep up amid the sort of volatility that BTC has seen in the past. Or maybe your system can keep up, but your liquidity provider will gap the spreads something crazy.

Still, I like your effort.

I would suggest offering very long-dated options, like stock option LEAPS. These best allow for hedging, and the time frame takes more of the short-term gamble out of it.

Sure, the short-term gamblers/traders will bring the volume and pay the bills. That is not me unfortunately, lol. I'd be most interested 3,6, 12-month contracts.

Ok, I just made my first trade, and did the exact opposite of what I said I would do. Guess I am a gambler ... lol.

Sold some calls with a 237 strike, expiring in about 21 minutes ... lol, we'll see how it goes. I'm thinking whoever sold btc down a couple hours ago likely isn't done. Or more precisely, that is what I'm thinking everybody else is thinking. Twenty percent return in thirty minutes would be nice ... :-)

Famous last words ...

[Indamuck]

Yup looks like they created a 30 minute one for the gamblers.

They still have a 4 hour one, daily, weekly, biweekly/monthly (not sure)

Vanilla options just got added recently but I think they'll be adding more contracts in the future.  And before they add long term contracts they'll need to do mid term and then if they are able to get liquidity they'll be able to launch a VIX product.

Also interesting is that they changed option strikes from $2 to $4 which is good.  And they added some more strikes for the shorter term binary options.  I think that's also good and now more stuff can be traded.  Which means a nicer spread in prices.

So 30 min recently switched.  Index is at 236.48 so lets look at the cost of the contract.

1.63x for Calls
1.51x for puts

Those odds are actually quite good.  We'll have to see if the market maker needs to adjust.

And there's a vertical orderbook too so all the liquidity isn't right at the top.

I waiting for a full changelog since they made a lot of changes.

If you're interested in trading at coinut consider using my referral link in my signature.

Hi, what do you mean by 'vertical order book' ?

I set up my Coinut account a couple days ago, not sure what link I used ... sorry.

[chriswen]

Hi, sending my first modest deposit right now. I'm going to start by selling longer-dated binary puts, and see how it goes. (I'm starting with only some of my online poker winnings, so I can afford to lose it ... lol.)

The very short-dated contracts - you are running them every 30 minutes it seems ... I'm thinking your system isn't going to be able to keep up amid the sort of volatility that BTC has seen in the past. Or maybe your system can keep up, but your liquidity provider will gap the spreads something crazy.

Still, I like your effort.

I would suggest offering very long-dated options, like stock option LEAPS. These best allow for hedging, and the time frame takes more of the short-term gamble out of it.

Sure, the short-term gamblers/traders will bring the volume and pay the bills. That is not me unfortunately, lol. I'd be most interested 3,6, 12-month contracts.

Ok, I just made my first trade, and did the exact opposite of what I said I would do. Guess I am a gambler ... lol.

Sold some calls with a 237 strike, expiring in about 21 minutes ... lol, we'll see how it goes. I'm thinking whoever sold btc down a couple hours ago likely isn't done. Or more precisely, that is what I'm thinking everybody else is thinking. Twenty percent return in thirty minutes would be nice ... :-)

Famous last words ...

good luck.  I've had some terrible luck

I had 99 6.17x CALLs with a strike of 248.  It ended up settling at 247.96

And another time I bought an out of the money call that was close to being positive but we just went sideways slightly under my strike.

[chriswen]

Hi, what do you mean by 'vertical order book' ?

I set up my Coinut account a couple days ago, not sure what link I used ... sorry.

Totally fine that you didn't use my ref link.

So currently it shows a strike price and the best bid, best ask, and the bid amount and ask amount.

Those liquidity amounts are for the whole order book.  If you place a limit order at the best bid or best ask I don't think you'll get a total fill.

It's hard for them to show that order book too as there isn't enough room.  But you can see it if you access the api.

[Indamuck]

OK, 22.8% profit in about 30 minutes, lol. That was fun ... 

[chriswen]

OK, 22.8% profit in about 30 minutes, lol. That was fun ... 

So this is how you create degenerate gamblers.

[Indamuck]

Interesting, I put on the same trade again, newest contract, and somebody narrowed the buy/sell spread dramatically.

The bid was higher than the ask ... no kidding. I was just about to take a screenshot when it disappeared. Must be multiple market makers. The opportunity wasn't huge, not sure if it would have exceeded trading costs ...

maybe OP could should shed some light on who / how many entities are making markets?

[Indamuck]

OK, 22.8% profit in about 30 minutes, lol. That was fun ...  

So this is how you create degenerate gamblers.

I'm a dye-in-the-wool degen poker player. Don't blame this site for my downfall ... lol.

[chriswen]

Interesting, I put on the same trade again, newest contract, and somebody narrowed the buy/sell spread dramatically.

The bid was higher than the ask ... no kidding. I was just about to take a screenshot when it disappeared. Must be multiple market makers. The opportunity wasn't huge, not sure if it would have exceeded trading costs ...

maybe OP could should shed some light on who / how many entities are making markets?

I think there are multiple market makers.  It might also be a glitch.  It should have triggered right?

Also note that usually its the exact same but if someone has an order on only one, it might be better to buy a put then write a call.  And its the exact same for binary options. (but price might be different)

[Indamuck]

Interesting, I put on the same trade again, newest contract, and somebody narrowed the buy/sell spread dramatically.

The bid was higher than the ask ... no kidding. I was just about to take a screenshot when it disappeared. Must be multiple market makers. The opportunity wasn't huge, not sure if it would have exceeded trading costs ...

maybe OP could should shed some light on who / how many entities are making markets?

I think there are multiple market makers.  It might also be a glitch.  It should have triggered right?

Also note that usually its the exact same but if someone has an order on only one, it might be better to buy a put then write a call.  And its the exact same for binary options. (but price might be different)

Yeah, it didn't trigger ... that was odd ... wish I had taken a screenshot. Anyway, I've made another deposit and I'll be on the site a bit. If I see it again I'll definitely take a screenshot right way ...