why do people agree to pay taxes?

[RodeoX]

So many ignorant statists making the same boring arguments over and over and over and over and over and over..

I want to cry.

I am living in a cage full of slaves and I am surrounded by other slaves telling me how great the cage is. Sure I get to vote on what's for supper every now and then. But whenever I propose we work together to escape the cage I am met with hostility and labeled as dangerous, radical, naive, Utopian, and selfish.

Not in my lifetime.

Why would others paying their share bother you? You could just mooch off our labor and enjoy the benefits of taxation but not pay. Then you wouldn't be a slave anymore.

[Wonka]

So many ignorant statists making the same boring arguments over and over and over and over and over and over..

I want to cry.

I am living in a cage full of slaves and I am surrounded by other slaves telling me how great the cage is. Sure I get to vote on what's for supper every now and then. But whenever I propose we work together to escape the cage I am met with hostility and labeled as dangerous, radical, naive, Utopian, and selfish.

Not in my lifetime.

Why would others paying their share bother you? You could just mooch off our labor and enjoy the benefits of taxation but not pay. Then you wouldn't be a slave anymore.

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

[Amph]

Don't ask what the state can do for you but what can you do for state.

both are wrong, you should not be forced to do anything for the state, especially when you don't know where your money are used, or for what they are used

government is the first thief remember

[najzenmajsen]

i dont know what you mean op ?
taxes go to the country , so that there can be free hospitals , roads , etc. if this is not how you want it to be
simply create your own country.

[RodeoX]

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

Yeah. nobody likes to pay taxes but playing the victim while using all the benefits of taxation does not make one look like a hero.  Americans are enjoying the safest times in all of human history. People were never this free in history nor as able to enjoy longevity and relative peace. Yet somehow they think that they are being oppressed by participating.

Well I've had the displeasure of living in some of the shitiest, war torn, armpits of this planet. Places with an actual anarchy. You would not like them. A lot of kids in the U.S. seem to think they would be free in an anarchy. But there is no freedom in anarchy for anyone but the strongest. You would wake up to that the day a militia shows up to take everything you have and put you to work in the mine. Then you would be like Police! Police! Someone come save me!

[GingerAle]

people agree to pay taxes because with it they buy civilization.

Now whether the governing bodies responsible for the allocation of this collective investment are trustworthy is a different story.

hence these experiments in democracy (USA being one of them), though representative government fails when the representation is flawed.

Did you know the founders intended the ratio of citizens to representatives to be between 1:30,000 and 1:50,000?

Apparently this was the only thing that George Washington spoke up for during the founding. He was most concerned with the ratio of representation.

Do you know what it is now?


it ranges between 1:700,000 - 1:almost a million.

how can 1 individual represent 700,000 people?

Why did it go from 1:30,000 to 1:700,000? because the federal house of representatives is arbitrarily capped at 435 due to some decision in 1911.

checkout http://thirty-thousand.org/

/rant

[Snipe85]

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

Yeah. nobody likes to pay taxes but playing the victim while using all the benefits of taxation does not make one look like a hero.  Americans are enjoying the safest times in all of human history. People were never this free in history nor as able to enjoy longevity and relative peace. Yet somehow they think that they are being oppressed by participating.

Well I've had the displeasure of living in some of the shitiest, war torn, armpits of this planet. Places with an actual anarchy. You would not like them. A lot of kids in the U.S. seem to think they would be free in an anarchy. But there is no freedom in anarchy for anyone but the strongest. You would wake up to that the day a militia shows up to take everything you have and put you to work in the mine. Then you would be like Police! Police! Someone come save me!

There's a difference between honest taxes and cruel ones. I'd call 10% of income an honest tax, but paying 20% + another 20% vat, like we do in Europe is a theft and slavery. I'm not against paying my share, but i'm not going to give away half of what I'm earning to the government. And no, not all of us are paying taxes, some are avoiding them, just like not all of us are respecting the law.

[NotLambchop]

... And no, not all of us are paying taxes, some are avoiding them, just like not all of us are respecting the law.

-Come on Duke, let's go do those crimes.
-Yeah. Yeah. Let's go get Sushi and ...and not pay.

[RodeoX]

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

Yeah. nobody likes to pay taxes but playing the victim while using all the benefits of taxation does not make one look like a hero.  Americans are enjoying the safest times in all of human history. People were never this free in history nor as able to enjoy longevity and relative peace. Yet somehow they think that they are being oppressed by participating.

Well I've had the displeasure of living in some of the shitiest, war torn, armpits of this planet. Places with an actual anarchy. You would not like them. A lot of kids in the U.S. seem to think they would be free in an anarchy. But there is no freedom in anarchy for anyone but the strongest. You would wake up to that the day a militia shows up to take everything you have and put you to work in the mine. Then you would be like Police! Police! Someone come save me!

There's a difference between honest taxes and cruel ones. I'd call 10% of income an honest tax, but paying 20% + another 20% vat, like we do in Europe is a theft and slavery. I'm not against paying my share, but i'm not going to give away half of what I'm earning to the government. And no, not all of us are paying taxes, some are avoiding them, just like not all of us are respecting the law.

That is the real problem. Not the concept of taxes as a way to pool money for our common interest, but the abuse of taxation. I hate the way the taxes I pay are mismanaged and wasted on stupid things the government shouldn't even be involved in. I think this is a growing problem in the U.S.

[GingerAle]

^^^^^ thirty-thousand.org !!!!

[neoneros]

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

 

Hope that in my life I have to pay a lot of taxes, espacily hope I will be in the high value income tax and maybe, one day I will have to pay a lot of tax on my bitcoins. All will imply I have a lot of money to spend

[hashman]

I always find it funny when people complain about other people paying taxes when you know they're paying it themselves. I also always imagine they're typing this from an iPhone sitting in Starbucks on their work break  .

 

Hope that in my life I have to pay a lot of taxes, espacily hope I will be in the high value income tax and maybe, one day I will have to pay a lot of tax on my bitcoins. All will imply I have a lot of money to spend

Indeed!  In fact every time you spend or trade any asset, it can be called a tax.  I am currently taxed about 4 millies when I purchase a US dollar. 

[B.A.S.]

people agree to pay taxes because with it they buy civilization.

Now whether the governing bodies responsible for the allocation of this collective investment are trustworthy is a different story.

hence these experiments in democracy (USA being one of them), though representative government fails when the representation is flawed.

Did you know the founders intended the ratio of citizens to representatives to be between 1:30,000 and 1:50,000?

Apparently this was the only thing that George Washington spoke up for during the founding. He was most concerned with the ratio of representation.

Do you know what it is now?


it ranges between 1:700,000 - 1:almost a million.

how can 1 individual represent 700,000 people?

Why did it go from 1:30,000 to 1:700,000? because the federal house of representatives is arbitrarily capped at 435 due to some decision in 1911.

checkout http://thirty-thousand.org/

/rant

Sadly, I don't think it was arbitrary, but directly tied to the Webster Method (i.e. Sainte-Lague Method) for good reason. In short, the SLM is primarily used in voting elections to set voting percentage minimums for representative parties to be allocated seats. Even if enough votes are gained, a threshold percentage must be met for the party to receive a seat (even if they have the votes; usually ~4%).

Now apply this to a non-voting situation like apportionment. By having a set number of seats, you can selectively eliminate representation growth for certain areas (states with lower populations). In a fixed system of historically 2 parties (US), this is an excellent way to rig representatives in favor of one party or another based on a fixed seats available. Especially with all the slaves not even counting as "full people."

They failed before WWI to reset the apportionment, thus continuing the old 1911 ruling. After WWI and II, the pop. exploded and the ruling was never changed (435). A simple screw up? I think not.

[Erdogan]

They lose on technology, but apparently, they win in the mind control space.

[GingerAle]

people agree to pay taxes because with it they buy civilization.

Now whether the governing bodies responsible for the allocation of this collective investment are trustworthy is a different story.

hence these experiments in democracy (USA being one of them), though representative government fails when the representation is flawed.

Did you know the founders intended the ratio of citizens to representatives to be between 1:30,000 and 1:50,000?

Apparently this was the only thing that George Washington spoke up for during the founding. He was most concerned with the ratio of representation.

Do you know what it is now?


it ranges between 1:700,000 - 1:almost a million.

how can 1 individual represent 700,000 people?

Why did it go from 1:30,000 to 1:700,000? because the federal house of representatives is arbitrarily capped at 435 due to some decision in 1911.

checkout http://thirty-thousand.org/

/rant

Sadly, I don't think it was arbitrary, but directly tied to the Webster Method (i.e. Sainte-Lague Method) for good reason. In short, the SLM is primarily used in voting elections to set voting percentage minimums for representative parties to be allocated seats. Even if enough votes are gained, a threshold percentage must be met for the party to receive a seat (even if they have the votes; usually ~4%).

Now apply this to a non-voting situation like apportionment. By having a set number of seats, you can selectively eliminate representation growth for certain areas (states with lower populations). In a fixed system of historically 2 parties (US), this is an excellent way to rig representatives in favor of one party or another based on a fixed seats available. Especially with all the slaves not even counting as "full people."

They failed before WWI to reset the apportionment, thus continuing the old 1911 ruling. After WWI and II, the pop. exploded and the ruling was never changed (435). A simple screw up? I think not.

well right, yes. There's even evidence that the party in power was responsible for the cap because they were loosing seats due to the booming populations of the cities.

I meant arbitrary as in the number. 435 is just outta the blue if yah think of it. "yeah, 50 senators, and yah know what? 435 representatives"

i spent a lot of time in my 20's railing against the government and trying to figure out whats wrong with it.

Then i came across the whole apportionmnet nonsense. You fix representation, you let the great democracy experiment of USA continue where it left off roughly a century ago.

I think its a testament to the wacky design of the US government that its been able to maintain its "legitimacy" for so long with such a flagrant misrepresentation of the people.

But the 17th is probably also to blame for some of that. Giving the people power of the senate made them disregard the actual power they had in the house.

but its all changeable, just like our cryptocurrency protocols. Just need a goddamned consensus! If you read the above link, and found some of the other links, like this one
http://www.articlethefirst.net/

You'll find that the first ammendment to the constitution is actually still on the books (that caps the limit at 1:50k) and up for vote and waiting to be ratified. I think its something like less than 10 states are all needed to sign it.

This shits crazily real and crazily possible.

[flipstyle]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Then again, sanity and bitcoin don't always go together, as evidenced by many replies (and the creation of this thread).

[Nerazzura]

They lose on technology, but apparently, they win in the mind control space.

what do you mean?
language is too difficult to understand the little guy like me.
 I wish you could explain again, please

[hashman]

So many ignorant statists making the same boring arguments over and over and over and over and over and over..

I want to cry.

I am living in a cage full of slaves and I am surrounded by other slaves telling me how great the cage is. Sure I get to vote on what's for supper every now and then. But whenever I propose we work together to escape the cage I am met with hostility and labeled as dangerous, radical, naive, Utopian, and selfish.

Not in my lifetime.

"Our master isn't going to like that kind of talk.  Let me go tell him."  

The word is spreading.  Free yourself and your family first then go back and try to help the next groups.  

[B.A.S.]

well right, yes. There's even evidence that the party in power was responsible for the cap because they were loosing seats due to the booming populations of the cities.

I meant arbitrary as in the number. 435 is just outta the blue if yah think of it. "yeah, 50 senators, and yah know what? 435 representatives"

i spent a lot of time in my 20's railing against the government and trying to figure out whats wrong with it.

Then i came across the whole apportionmnet nonsense. You fix representation, you let the great democracy experiment of USA continue where it left off roughly a century ago.

I think its a testament to the wacky design of the US government that its been able to maintain its "legitimacy" for so long with such a flagrant misrepresentation of the people.

But the 17th is probably also to blame for some of that. Giving the people power of the senate made them disregard the actual power they had in the house.

but its all changeable, just like our cryptocurrency protocols. Just need a goddamned consensus! If you read the above link, and found some of the other links, like this one
http://www.articlethefirst.net/

You'll find that the first ammendment to the constitution is actually still on the books (that caps the limit at 1:50k) and up for vote and waiting to be ratified. I think its something like less than 10 states are all needed to sign it.

This shits crazily real and crazily possible.

You and I both man. The more I read into the history and the current policy of the US, the more I see the reason for the policies being how they are. Democracy is an illusion in a way, meant to pacify the public's need for 'freedom.'

Your comments got me reading more into apportionment. So interesting to see that there were a few men at the time who had their heads on right, but were eventually killed or forced out by the majority rule. America was founded under freedom from the same principles it now uses to control.

Is there a place to find out which elements are up for vote at a given session?

[tee-rex]

So many overly thought replies in this thread.

Most 'sane' individuals agree to pay taxes to avoid having their anuses ripped in prison from tax evasion.  No more, no less.

Kind of like how most sane individuals choose to not commit crimes.

Though I agree with the first part of your post (that people pay taxes to avoid having their anuses overstretched), the second part is far from reality. The majority of population don't commit crimes since humans are social beings, and bringing damage to another human is obviously antisocial, thus being against human nature.