why do people agree to pay taxes?

[tee-rex]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

[NotLambchop]

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

Good.  When everyone has a positive reason to fund their government there is no need to force people to pay taxes.  Your country can make its taxes optional, effectively making them "suggested donations", and thereby eliminate some unnecessary bureaucracy.

How about no?  How about I come and live at your house, eat your food, and you make the rent optional?  It would certainly eliminate some unnecessary bureaucracy.

[B.A.S.]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

It's a "nice" feedback loop if you are the USG/FED. Collect taxes yearly to pay off some deficit interest and then print more money (QE) to target economic inflation rates. Depending on what type of QE program is going on (QE1 - mortgage securities/corporate credit risk or QE2 - Treasury purchases), different economic channels can be utilized to temporarily keep the House of Cards together in the event of having a debt interest burden that is way too high and is unable to be paid by the population alone (without extreme tax rates which case revolt). Just the typical robbing Peter to pay Paul or vice versa. They're both broke anyway.

[tee-rex]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

It's a "nice" feedback loop if you are the USG/FED. Collect taxes yearly to pay off some deficit interest and then print more money (QE) to target economic inflation rates. Depending on what type of QE program is going on (QE1 - mortgage securities/corporate credit risk or QE2 - Treasury purchases), different economic channels can be utilized to temporarily keep the House of Cards together in the event of having a tax burden that is way to high. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul or vice versa. They're both broke anyway.

If they are both broke, what's going to happen next? How long will the House of Cards stand?

[B.A.S.]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

But goverment have the army on his side, and police follow their orders too.

People dont pay taxes because they love to do it, people pay it because is an obligation.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

It's a "nice" feedback loop if you are the USG/FED. Collect taxes yearly to pay off some deficit interest and then print more money (QE) to target economic inflation rates. Depending on what type of QE program is going on (QE1 - mortgage securities/corporate credit risk or QE2 - Treasury purchases), different economic channels can be utilized to temporarily keep the House of Cards together in the event of having a tax burden that is way to high. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul or vice versa. They're both broke anyway.

If they are both broke, what's going to happen next? How long will the House of Cards stand?

This only becomes a problem when the holders of debt no longer agree to give it value as the debtor does. The World is financed by debt, US included. Everyone is a giant bag holder in a way. As long as everyone continues to see "value" in this debt based model, there isn't any problems per say.

Inflation alone is robbing people of spending power yearly with their fiat dollar, but nobody is complaining about this enough to change it. At the end of the day, 1 US dollar in 1900 is 1 US dollar today. That hasn't changed. The debt and deficit work this way too. All that matters is the # of USD you have, not what it is actually "worth." <--- This is the key to keeping it all going. Worth is derived from # today, not purchasing power.

The HOC will always stand, but I think a financial shift is coming that is going to try to sweep much of the debt under the rug at the expense of the America citizen via corporate America. They will place large demands on corporations who will generously 'pass' this down to their customers. When the system is at its limits, a "relief switch" will come in the form of new spending in a different (but nearly identical) system. Same meat, different grinder. The mass public will be none-the-wiser.

[tee-rex]

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

It's a "nice" feedback loop if you are the USG/FED. Collect taxes yearly to pay off some deficit interest and then print more money (QE) to target economic inflation rates. Depending on what type of QE program is going on (QE1 - mortgage securities/corporate credit risk or QE2 - Treasury purchases), different economic channels can be utilized to temporarily keep the House of Cards together in the event of having a tax burden that is way to high. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul or vice versa. They're both broke anyway.

If they are both broke, what's going to happen next? How long will the House of Cards stand?

This only becomes a problem when the holders of debt no longer agree to give it value as the debtor does. The World is financed by debt, US included. Everyone is a giant bag holder in a way. As long as everyone continues to see "value" in this debt based model, there isn't any problems per say.

Inflation alone is robbing people of spending power yearly with their fiat dollar, but nobody is complaining about this enough to change it. At the end of the day, 1 US dollar in 1900 is 1 US dollar today. That hasn't changed. The debt and deficit work this way too. All that matters is the # of USD you have, not what it is actually "worth." <--- This is the key to keeping it all going. Worth is derived from # today, not purchasing power.

The HOC will always stand, but I think a financial shift is coming that is going to try to sweep much of the debt under the rug at the expense of the America citizen via corporate America. They will place large demands on corporations who will generously 'pass' this down to their customers. When the system is at its limits, a "relief switch" will come in the form of new spending in a different (but nearly identical) system. Same meat, different grinder. The mass public will be none-the-wiser.

The two biggest holders of the U.S. debt are Japan and China. Japan is not an independent state, so it is effectively out of the equation (whoever begs to differ). China is the largest trading partner of the U.S., so it is very unlikely that it will drop its U.S. treasury holdings all of a sudden. In a sense, it can be said that right now the U.S. feeds on China (like it fed on Japan previously), but how long will it last?

[NotLambchop]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

[B.A.S.]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

[NotLambchop]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

[B.A.S.]

The two biggest holders of the U.S. debt are Japan and China. Japan is not an independent state, so it is effectively out of the equation (whoever begs to differ). China is the largest trading partner of the U.S., so it is very unlikely that it will drop its U.S. treasury holdings all of a sudden. In a sense, it can be said that right now the U.S. feeds on China, but how long will it last?

The US has been pushing SDRs through the IMF for some time now. SDRs came out of the Bretton-Woods System and where created as a fail safe for an expected USD shortfall in the 70s.

Interstingly, the US wants to bring China on board. The Chinese want no part as they stand to lose out because of all the US debt they hold. It's becoming clearer that the US cannot support the reserve status it has anymore, but is unwilling to relinquish the power the position provides. The rest of the World is becoming wise to the US antics.

I give it 15-20 years for full transition to something different. With things like BTC starting up in the late 2000s, I fully expect the US has been planning for the eventual end for a solid 10 years prior, maybe 20. Policy shifts take a lot of time, especially given the current one is ~100 years old.

The US may be feeding off of everyone else (I agree with you), but we have a large military. Might always makes it right no matter what. There is no morality in power. It is amoral by birthright. China will have no choice but to submit given the current economic devastation of its allies i.e. Russia/N. Korea/Pakistan (unless this changes).

Look for increasing manufacturing on the US home front and a larger return to made in America. The era of the US exporting dollars for a living is slowly grinding to a halt. The idea would be for the US to start selling China stuff and control the fiscal monetary unit used to trade as well. China will be a US-debt bagholder with the US no longer paying off "those" debts.

[picolo]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Bitcoin helps you be in control of your wealth. It is also useful because of the technological aspect.

[NotLambchop]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

Don't let your assumptions cloud an otherwise unsupported claim.

You referring to "Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education"?  It does seem like an expensive lesson.  You're asking me to substantiate my opinion?

[B.A.S.]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

Don't let your assumptions cloud an otherwise unsupported claim.

You referring to "Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education"?  It does seem like an expensive lesson.  You're asking me to substantiate my opinion?

I think I have misread your comment. I took it as a sly remark. I see what you mean now. Yes, it is a pricy education, but those with the balls to attend this School of Hard Knocks stand a very good chance of getting ahead of the stampede.

[NotLambchop]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

Don't let your assumptions cloud an otherwise unsupported claim.

You referring to "Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education"?  It does seem like an expensive lesson.  You're asking me to substantiate my opinion?

I think I have misread your comment. I took it as a sly remark. I see what you mean now. Yes, it is a pricy education, but those with the balls to attend this School of Hard Knocks stand a very good chance of getting ahead of the stampede.

Know what you mean.  People make snide comments about my vast BTCeanie BTCabies holdings, but I just have to smile.  They don't understand BTCeanies, 'cos they ain't brilliant visionary financiers with balls of steel.  Not like myself
Hang tough, bro!

[tee-rex]

The two biggest holders of the U.S. debt are Japan and China. Japan is not an independent state, so it is effectively out of the equation (whoever begs to differ). China is the largest trading partner of the U.S., so it is very unlikely that it will drop its U.S. treasury holdings all of a sudden. In a sense, it can be said that right now the U.S. feeds on China, but how long will it last?

The US has been pushing SDRs through the IMF for some time now. SDRs came out of the Bretton-Woods System and where created as a fail safe for an expected USD shortfall in the 70s.

Interstingly, the US wants to bring China on board. The Chinese want no part as they stand to lose out because of all the US debt they hold. It's becoming clearer that the US cannot support the reserve status it has anymore, but is unwilling to relinquish the power the position provides. The rest of the World is becoming wise to the US antics.

So China has to become the main loser since it will have the U.S. debt now (then) worthy of nothing. Could they (the Chinese) think of this as the price they had to pay to get out of poverty and misery China had been in for the last few centuries? In any case, they now have plants and technology in their hands, so they are no longer much dependent on other countries technologically (mostly the U.S.).

[picolo]

.@B.A.S.:
Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

Don't let your assumptions cloud an otherwise unsupported claim.

You referring to "Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education"?  It does seem like an expensive lesson.  You're asking me to substantiate my opinion?

I think I have misread your comment. I took it as a sly remark. I see what you mean now. Yes, it is a pricy education, but those with the balls to attend this School of Hard Knocks stand a very good chance of getting ahead of the stampede.

I think it is not about getting the lessons but learning them, expensive lessons can make you do other mistakes if you become depressed and bitter.

[B.A.S.]

The two biggest holders of the U.S. debt are Japan and China. Japan is not an independent state, so it is effectively out of the equation (whoever begs to differ). China is the largest trading partner of the U.S., so it is very unlikely that it will drop its U.S. treasury holdings all of a sudden. In a sense, it can be said that right now the U.S. feeds on China, but how long will it last?

The US has been pushing SDRs through the IMF for some time now. SDRs came out of the Bretton-Woods System and where created as a fail safe for an expected USD shortfall in the 70s.

Interstingly, the US wants to bring China on board. The Chinese want no part as they stand to lose out because of all the US debt they hold. It's becoming clearer that the US cannot support the reserve status it has anymore, but is unwilling to relinquish the power the position provides. The rest of the World is becoming wise to the US antics.

So China has to become the main loser since it will have the U.S. debt now (then) worthy of nothing. Could they (the Chinese) think of this as the price they had to pay to get out of poverty and misery China had been in for the last few centuries? In any case, they now have plants and technology in their hands, so they are no longer much dependent on other countries technologically (mostly the U.S.).

Seems plausible. China is screwed if they do or if they don't. Their successes in the global economy have come from the US mostly. Americans demand goods at cheap prices and China took advantage of that niche.

Through buying US Treasury Bonds, China was able to finance many of its local and global projects in places like the Sudan or in Pakistan using the favorable USD exchange rate over their Yuan. They gambled and it paid off handsomely. Now, not so much...

Funny thing is the Chinese want to sell off their USTBs because of their overvalued currency, but doing so will boost the USD relative to theirs and hurt them more so. Just a giant dick measuring contest if you ask me. It's all about the power.

[Orangina]

Theoretically I pay taxes because government can offer to me some services (like health, law enforcement ecc.). But, with the economic crisis, we pay taxes to pay state debts 

that's the right answer I think , you are right

[AllTheBitz]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?
if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

If you accept the taxes also the bitcoin transaction system will hardly accept you  .
If you pay a small amount for taxes you may have double spent or your transaction couldn't
complete for a long time . default taxe is 0.0001 BTC per kB for a smooth transaction .

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

because i will go to jail if i didn't pay it
the gov force me to pay taxes, and said it for developing my country
but in fact, many tax money is corrupted by bad individual in government

If you are using social healthcare or socially funded infrastructures and you aren't paying tax you do deserve jail.

If you aren't using any of these and keep it 100% private then you don't deserve jail.

Simple as.