why do people agree to pay taxes?

[ElectricMucus]

even if none of the cops and soldiers (who are not exactly being paid top dollar and may actually agree that the government has become totalitarian, violated the constitution, and must be stopped) join up its still not enough to stop an army of a million people who are already inside the country and are flooding into the New York FED and DC.
there is no way to stop such a blitzkrieg except by committing suicide and nuking New York.

What makes you think those 1 million will actually make it to the NY FED or DC?

[RodeoX]

the reason there are messed up places like that is not because of lack of government, its because of the mentality of the people there.
if they form a government it will be even worse then the situation where the warlords don't have a monopoly on military power.

America would not turn into a place like that should the government disappear, because the ethics of the people are different.
people in America generally respect the non aggression principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

It is easy to think that "those people" are just doing it wrong and that Americans are somehow different. But there is no evidence of that. I, for example, do not respect non-aggression. I would offer free booty and slaves for those who will pillage with me. There is no middle ground, you are a slave or you are a king in an anarchy. You can probably guess how many kings are needed in such a system.

I saw a good example in Croatia during the civil war. Everyone thought that since they were Europeans it couldn't get that ugly. Well, they fought tooth and nail like beasts. No different than the wars I saw in Africa or Central America.

If this were a real anarchy then the posters in this thread would be put to the sword for saying what they said. But don't hate the warlord, he's just exercising his freedom.

[Robert Paulson]

even if none of the cops and soldiers (who are not exactly being paid top dollar and may actually agree that the government has become totalitarian, violated the constitution, and must be stopped) join up its still not enough to stop an army of a million people who are already inside the country and are flooding into the New York FED and DC.
there is no way to stop such a blitzkrieg except by committing suicide and nuking New York.

What makes you think those 1 million will actually make it to the NY FED or DC?

most of them probably already live nearby, 1 million armed people is alot of firepower.
especially if alot of local non federal police joins up and starts helping to clear the roads.

[CryptoCarmen]

There are wery old ideas of not paying much taxes, and make everything private. If you need road make it by yourself. If you need school same. There was some lady in USA, i think all this even name after her. She lived like 100 years ago. i saw documentary recently.

That documentary also said taxes for rich decreased liek 3 times in last 30 years.

[Robert Paulson]

the reason there are messed up places like that is not because of lack of government, its because of the mentality of the people there.
if they form a government it will be even worse then the situation where the warlords don't have a monopoly on military power.

America would not turn into a place like that should the government disappear, because the ethics of the people are different.
people in America generally respect the non aggression principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

It is easy to think that "those people" are just doing it wrong and that Americans are somehow different. But there is no evidence of that. I, for example, do not respect non-aggression. I would offer free booty and slaves for those who will pillage with me. There is no middle ground, you are a slave or you are a king in an anarchy. You can probably guess how many kings are needed in such a system.

I saw a good example in Croatia during the civil war. Everyone thought that since they were Europeans it couldn't get that ugly. Well, they fought tooth and nail like beasts. No different than the wars I saw in Africa or Central America.

If this were a real anarchy then the posters in this thread would be put to the sword for saying what they said. But don't hate the warlord, he's just exercising his freedom.

you would not be able to pillage anyone because they would be defended by a whole bunch of private armies who do respect non aggression because wars cost money and its better for business to just settle disputes in an agreed private court.
as long as the majority of military power respects non aggression a minority attacker will not be successful.  
same way as you need 51% of hashing power in bitcoin to consistently attack the network successfully.

the reason those messed up countries don't work is that the majority doesn't follow the non aggression protocol, that's not the case in America.

having multiple privately funded armies sharing power is not exactly anarchy.
because they have to compete for customers the free market will weed out the ineffective non profitable armies and you would be left with very effective protection against any aggression.

[Cluster2k]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

Every time I would reverse my car out of the driveway I would have to pay a toll for road use.  Don't know what kind of tolls I would have to pay through various sections of my city: some roads are more popular than others.  If I need to call police or a firetruck they would send me a complete bill afterwards and probably ask for a credit card number before attending.  When a relative developed cancer the hospital didn't take their house to pay for the specialist treatment.  Let's face it, if you're seriously ill through no fault of your own the hospital can take your car, house, and possibly a few other trinkets too.  Can't pay?  Go die in a gutter.

It would be interesting to watch how my nation's military would fund equipment used in disaster rescues and bushfires.  My house has never burned down: screw those people in another state if they drown or burn.

if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It would be an interesting experiment.  There are a few countries where armed militant groups do tell the government to fornicate itself.  Somalia comes to mind.  Problem is, those groups then themselves go pillage the country.

[ElectricMucus]

even if none of the cops and soldiers (who are not exactly being paid top dollar and may actually agree that the government has become totalitarian, violated the constitution, and must be stopped) join up its still not enough to stop an army of a million people who are already inside the country and are flooding into the New York FED and DC.
there is no way to stop such a blitzkrieg except by committing suicide and nuking New York.

What makes you think those 1 million will actually make it to the NY FED or DC?

most of them probably already live nearby, 1 million armed people is alot of firepower.
especially if alot of local non federal police joins up and starts helping to clear the roads.

Ok then what/who will you be shooting at?

[Robert Paulson]

why is it ok for a group of people calling themselves the government to force everyone to buy their services?

Every time I would reverse my car out of the driveway I would have to pay a toll for road use.  Don't know what kind of tolls I would have to pay through various sections of my city: some roads are more popular than others.  If I need to call police or a firetruck they would send me a complete bill afterwards and probably ask for a credit card number before attending.  When a relative developed cancer the hospital didn't take their house to pay for the specialist treatment.  It would be interesting to watch how my nation's military would fund equipment used in disaster rescues and bushfires.  My house has never burned down: screw those people in another state if they drown or burn.

if enough armed people refused to pay and told the government to go fuck itself there is nothing they could do.

It would be an interesting experiment.  There are a few countries where armed militant groups do tell the government to fornicate itself.  Somalia comes to mind.  Problem is, those groups then themselves go pillage the country.

there are no free meals.

you are already paying for the roads you use, you're just paying much more because they are built by an inefficient government monopoly.
same goes for the police and fire department, you are already forced to buy those services from the government, and because there is no competition there is exactly zero incentive for them to be more efficient, its not like you can go use someone else for those services.
you're also paying for the cancer treatment of other people, its just you're over paying because instead of a private insurance company setting competitive rates you have a government monopoly setting them.

[Robert Paulson]

even if none of the cops and soldiers (who are not exactly being paid top dollar and may actually agree that the government has become totalitarian, violated the constitution, and must be stopped) join up its still not enough to stop an army of a million people who are already inside the country and are flooding into the New York FED and DC.
there is no way to stop such a blitzkrieg except by committing suicide and nuking New York.

What makes you think those 1 million will actually make it to the NY FED or DC?

most of them probably already live nearby, 1 million armed people is alot of firepower.
especially if alot of local non federal police joins up and starts helping to clear the roads.

Ok then what/who will you be shooting at?

ideally nothing/no one.
the goal is to dismantle the government, abolish all taxes and allow anyone to offer the services the government is currently monopolizing.

[troy112]

If not for Taxes, how will the community you live in will run? Accept Donations?
Just think like this when you are living in a developed community you have to give back for what community gives to you. And they are in the form of Taxes. Yes, Taxes are biased and more than they should be. But the community can't run without them.


Ok, you don't wanna live in community, go to forest. There also you'll have to give back, maybe in the form of time or in any other form of resources.
Only Taking taking and taking is not sustainable.

[ElectricMucus]

the goal is to dismantle the government, abolish all taxes and allow anyone to offer the services the government is currently monopolizing.

Like running Aircraft carriers?  
You see even if you would by some miracle take out your "targets" it would still not give you control over the real means power is projected in this world.

That's why any successful coup in recent history was a military one.

[Robert Paulson]

If not for Taxes, how will the community you live in will run? Accept Donations?
Just think like this when you are living in a developed community you have to give back for what community gives to you. And they are in the form of Taxes. Yes, Taxes are biased and more than they should be. But the community can't run without them.


Ok, you don't wanna live in community, go to forest. There also you'll have to give back, maybe in the form of time or in any other form of resources.
Only Taking taking and taking is not sustainable.

how about everyone simply buys the services they actually want/need?
instead of being forced to buy the services the government decided you need from them.

[Robert Paulson]

the goal is to dismantle the government, abolish all taxes and allow anyone to offer the services the government is currently monopolizing.

Like running Aircraft carriers? 

if a private defense agency decides it makes economic sense to hold aircraft carriers to protect its customers, then sure, why not.

[Robert Paulson]

those aircraft carriers are already built by private companies by the way.

[troy112]

Yes, that can happen, then there will be disparity. Lets take an example of road in the community, you pay for road of you own section and its luxurious and you neighbors pay for their section, but its cheap and most of the time broken down.

Or take the example of paying for things that you don't need, but are essential for community.... pollution controls, environment law agencies. They are not a responsibility of any single individual, but as a whole community.

Then what about poor children, who are studying on the taxes you give, they are also not your personal responsibility...

[ElectricMucus]

if a private defense agency decides it makes economic sense to hold aircraft carriers to protect its customers, then sure, why not.

[runam0k]

You were born into an unfortunate situation i.e. a society that chose long ago to organise a government and pay taxes. It could have been worse, you could have been born a starving child in Africa or a woman in Afghanistan.

Believe it or not, you have a choice. You can leave. You just need somewhere to go and sufficient motivation to make the move.

[MrBig]

even if none of the cops and soldiers (who are not exactly being paid top dollar and may actually agree that the government has become totalitarian, violated the constitution, and must be stopped) join up its still not enough to stop an army of a million people who are already inside the country and are flooding into the New York FED and DC.
there is no way to stop such a blitzkrieg except by committing suicide and nuking New York.

What makes you think those 1 million will actually make it to the NY FED or DC?

most of them probably already live nearby, 1 million armed people is alot of firepower.
especially if alot of local non federal police joins up and starts helping to clear the roads.

Ok then what/who will you be shooting at?

ideally nothing/no one.
the goal is to dismantle the government, abolish all taxes and allow anyone to offer the services the government is currently monopolizing.

The people in power aren't going to just sit idly while a group of rebels overthrows them. You have to look at the worst possible outcome in such a scenario and not the ideal one, because the results could be catastrophic and cost millions of lives.

[RodeoX]

you would not be able to pillage anyone because they would be defended by a whole bunch of private armies who do respect non aggression because wars cost money and its better for business to just settle disputes in an agreed private court.
as long as the majority of military power respects non aggression a minority attacker will not be successful.  
same way as you need 51% of hashing power in bitcoin to consistently attack the network successfully.

the reason those messed up countries don't work is that the majority doesn't follow the non aggression protocol, that's not the case in America.

having multiple privately funded armies sharing power is not exactly anarchy.
because they have to compete for customers the free market will weed out the ineffective non profitable armies and you would be left with very effective protection against any aggression.

I do understand that logic, but it never happens that way. Who would pay the private army? And why on Earth would they work for a living when they can just take everything you own? As far as private courts, what law will they follow other than the laws they make up.
Lastly, there is no law holding you in the U.S. You are free to leave and pursue your liberty in the new Islamic Caliphate or Somalia, or the soon to be liberated Liberia. Once the government there collapses it should be a safe place to raise a family.

[Robert Paulson]

you would not be able to pillage anyone because they would be defended by a whole bunch of private armies who do respect non aggression because wars cost money and its better for business to just settle disputes in an agreed private court.
as long as the majority of military power respects non aggression a minority attacker will not be successful.  
same way as you need 51% of hashing power in bitcoin to consistently attack the network successfully.

the reason those messed up countries don't work is that the majority doesn't follow the non aggression protocol, that's not the case in America.

having multiple privately funded armies sharing power is not exactly anarchy.
because they have to compete for customers the free market will weed out the ineffective non profitable armies and you would be left with very effective protection against any aggression.

I do understand that logic, but it never happens that way. Who would pay the private army? And why on Earth would they work for a living when they can just take everything you own? As far as private courts, what law will they follow other than the laws they make up.
Lastly, there is no law holding you in the U.S. You are free to leave and pursue your liberty in the new Islamic Caliphate or Somalia, or the soon to be liberated Liberia. Once the government there collapses it should be a safe place to raise a family.

anyone who wants protection against aggression (which is probably everyone) will pay the private army of their choosing.
they would work for a living because the majority of them would not agree to just rob everyone and would uphold the non aggression protocol,
that's pretty much why the current U.S army doesn't just take over the whole country even though they hold all the weapons.
this also shows how in the current situation if the U.S army does decide that it wants to take over it can do so easily because it has the monopoly on military power.
in a true free society no single organization can just take over, because the other honest armies will destroy it, again this scheme relies on the majority military power upholding the protocol, just like bitcoin.

the courts will follow the laws which they make, they will likely ask people to vote for the laws with a referendum or the free market will find some other way to make laws.
no one will pay for the services of a private army that works with a court that makes laws nobody wants, and in any case the laws must be compatible with the non aggression protocol that the private armies are upholding.