Angry threat from BitStamp. Put myself in danger or they'll steel my money.

[Window2Wall]

I would say that you would have the same level of identity theft risk giving money to bitstamp as you would giving your identity documents to your bank (that you had to give when you opened your bank accounts). I would suggest to provide identity documents (assuming you were not somehow laundering money through bitstamp, in which case I think you should eat the losses as you would be facing much stiffer penalties) to bitstamp and accept the fact that AML/KYC regulations are a thing of reality

[alan2here]

You might be right, but I'm not convinced.

Why do you think BitStamp is more competent and less crooked than all the others were? Apart from maybe having a nicer looking website.

And there intention is clear, has anyone here collected all these docs and got them sent, and had BitStamp acknowledge them and got there funds back?

[RodeoX]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

[QuestionAuthority]

It's unfortunate, but the OP basically agreed to whatever BitStamp wants when he relinquished control of his money to them.

Now he is in a position where he has to either agree with their demands or fight them in an attempt to regain control of his money.

I find it shocking how many people, when presented with money that gives the user total control, are so willing to give that up for whatever reason.

The time to worry about this was before sending them money.

Correct answer.^^

By now I would think everyone posting on this forum should understand exchanges can't be trusted. Now if you're a beginning user lured to an exchange website by an advert or something that's different.

[farfiman]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

True , but if they allow you to deposit without verification then they have to let you withdraw in a reasonable amount of time as well if the rules change.

[bitnanigans]

It sucks that they don't allow you access to your funds after suspending account activity just because the account isn't verified, but the process on Bitstamp is actually very easy, compared with other non-Bitcoin related services that I had to get verified for. There is nothing wrong with getting verified, withdrawing your funds and then closing your account to take your business elsewhere. And I doubt getting yourself verified on Bitstamp would put your life in danger. Seems rather paranoid. :/

[btc-facebook]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

True , but if they allow you to deposit without verification then they have to let you withdraw in a reasonable amount of time as well if the rules change.

When you sign up for an account with an exchange, you will need to accept (and agree to) certain terms that the exchange provides you. One of those terms is that you will submit certain KYC/AML documents so the exchange can verify your identity (and likely that you cannot withdraw any funds until these documents are received and accepted)

The exchange accepts your funds under the assumption that you will submit these documents (as you agreed to do so) in order for you to be able to trade on their marketplace.

I would say it would be a very different issue if the OP had sent KYC/AML documents to bitstamp and for whatever reason they were rejected.

I think you are correct from a moral standpoint, however from a legal standpoint it is much less clear.

[TheButterZone]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

True , but if they allow you to deposit without verification then they have to let you withdraw in a reasonable amount of time as well if the rules change.

When you sign up for an account with an exchange, you will need to accept (and agree to) certain terms that the exchange provides you. One of those terms is that you will submit certain KYC/AML documents so the exchange can verify your identity (and likely that you cannot withdraw any funds until these documents are received and accepted)

Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant it opened for business? Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant the OP signed up?

[alan2here]

Gox - Customer Data, Funds, Code

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508762.0
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2081as/analysis_of_the_leaked_mtgox_database/

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/03/mt-gox-source-code-leaked-by-hackers-along-with-team-information-customer-data/


Coinbase - Customer Data

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21wx59/coinbase_emails_and_names_leaked/
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/bitcoin-wallet-service-coinbase-faces-phishing-attacks-after-data-leak/


Bitcoinica - Funds

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoinica


BitScalper - Customer Passwords

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63659.0


More minor leaks

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hrg8h/bitfinex_privacy_leak_other_users_account/


There are more I cannot find links for, I've also not included the internal thefts in other exchanges, the Russian BTC forum leak, the US gov BTC related auction leak etc... And I don't know what was carefully sold instead of leaked to everyone.

Not my life that is in danger, just at a few dozen hours of it.

If it looks like you, let's say defrauded hundreds of pensioners, because your leaked legal documents were used in the frauds, can you be sure those peoples families won't react badly?

Can you imagine if you had to keep changing supermarkets like this, Asda, Tesco, Liddle, etc... With all Thease sorts of things happening to each.

Can you imagine me believing that "this time, the 6th time, it's different"?


Someone here has such a low opinion of banks, they think there is a similar level of safety.


And because it's apparently so easy to forget I seemingly need it in every post. I don't care about conventional privacy concerns, they can make publicly available all sorts of information about me as much as they like, but not legal documents.

[RoadStress]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

[opossum]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

True , but if they allow you to deposit without verification then they have to let you withdraw in a reasonable amount of time as well if the rules change.

When you sign up for an account with an exchange, you will need to accept (and agree to) certain terms that the exchange provides you. One of those terms is that you will submit certain KYC/AML documents so the exchange can verify your identity (and likely that you cannot withdraw any funds until these documents are received and accepted)

Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant it opened for business? Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant the OP signed up?

Most websites have clauses in their TOS that they have the ability to change the terms at their pleasure. Even if the answer to your questions are 'no' then their ability change the TOS at their pleasure would make your questions moot.

Also the message in the OP says that the OP was warned multiple times about this happening yet the OP still continued to keep funds at bitstamp

[TheButterZone]

I don't know why people think this a problem witn the exchanges. If you don't like KYC/AML laws then you need to tell this to your government, not the exchanges. They do not make the rules and they are not going to violate the law so you can keep you 0.5BTC secret.

True , but if they allow you to deposit without verification then they have to let you withdraw in a reasonable amount of time as well if the rules change.

When you sign up for an account with an exchange, you will need to accept (and agree to) certain terms that the exchange provides you. One of those terms is that you will submit certain KYC/AML documents so the exchange can verify your identity (and likely that you cannot withdraw any funds until these documents are received and accepted)

Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant it opened for business? Did Bitstamp have those terms the instant the OP signed up?

Most websites have clauses in their TOS that they have the ability to change the terms at their pleasure. Even if the answer to your questions are 'no' then their ability change the TOS at their pleasure would make your questions moot.

Also the message in the OP says that the OP was warned multiple times about this happening yet the OP still continued to keep funds at bitstamp

Legally, not ethically moot.

The message in the OP says "I have not been able to withdraw my funds for some time before this notice."

So they changed the terms with no notice to lock up his funds. Legal, NOT ethical.

[alan2here]

www.zdnet.com/article/bitstamp-exchange-reopens-doors-after-5m-hack/

Every exchange has a series of huge thefts before they go bust, I'd like an apology from all those suggesting that BitStamp would be magically different.

So do they have enough BTC now to allow a run on the exchange, who knows.

Oh dear your identity has been stolen too, maybe, who knows, who cares, certainly not BitStamp.

[seabass1985]

This is absolutely observed, don't let them push you around. You have rights to!

[croato]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

[TheButterZone]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

I've heard of banks changing their rules, not letting bitcoiners know, and then not allowing them to withdraw funds.

[croato]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

I've heard of banks changing their rules, not letting bitcoiners know, and then not allowing them to withdraw funds.

Big world, absolutely possiblle somewhere in 3rd world but in Western democraties you would most possibly sue that bank and win. Anyway, that is one of reasons we have Bitcoin now so not any gov/banker bump can take your money. I know if you dont own keys you own shiat, but anyway we should make better system than govs and banks or we lose one of reasons we have Bitcoin in first place.

[TheButterZone]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

I've heard of banks changing their rules, not letting bitcoiners know, and then not allowing them to withdraw funds.

Big world, absolutely possiblle somewhere in 3rd world but in Western democraties you would most possibly sue that bank and win. Anyway, that is one of reasons we have Bitcoin now so not any gov/banker bump can take your money. I know if you dont own keys you own shiat, but anyway we should make better system than govs and banks or we lose one of reasons we have Bitcoin in first place.

You're right, the US is a third world country and not a Western democracy.

[croato]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

I've heard of banks changing their rules, not letting bitcoiners know, and then not allowing them to withdraw funds.

Big world, absolutely possiblle somewhere in 3rd world but in Western democraties you would most possibly sue that bank and win. Anyway, that is one of reasons we have Bitcoin now so not any gov/banker bump can take your money. I know if you dont own keys you own shiat, but anyway we should make better system than govs and banks or we lose one of reasons we have Bitcoin in first place.

You're right, the US is a third world country and not a Western democracy.

Or maybe ppl dont read all small letters in their contract in USA, idk. Anyway, even if in USA banks dont have to honour their contracts, we should build better system, right?

[lolled]

So alan2here you want to use BitStamp services, but you can't follow their terms. Go ahead and close your BitStamp account and trade your bitcoins elsewhere. BitStamp isn't required to please you and it's not a human right. You like them, you use them. You don't like them, you don't use them. What's the problem? Why is BitStamp required to follow YOUR rules, instead of theirs? Why are you so special?

I guess alan2here is mad cause they changed rules, not let him know and now they even dont allow him to withdraw funds. I agree with alan, that is thievery and scam like. Even Banks dont act like that.

I've heard of banks changing their rules, not letting bitcoiners know, and then not allowing them to withdraw funds.

I thinks banks are legally required to inform their users of any such thins. Atleast I do get emails from my bank if any changes in rules happen.