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Author Topic: Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States  (Read 54557 times)
Marianne Skanland
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January 09, 2015, 07:47:23 AM
 #121

  
I feel like here in the US the kid would have to have noticeable bruises or some kind of trauma for child protective services to get involved.

Quote from: Tecshare
Unfortunately US CPS is not much better. A lot of people don't realize that CPS is part of a "family court" which falls completely outside of the regular judicial system. This is a vestigial remainder of former eugenics courts from the past often used for forced sterilizations of minorities and "defectives". CPS is almost completely outside of the law, even in the US.


Tecshare is right (unfortunately). Especially in the years 2000 - around 2005 I was in touch with a number of Americans, who wrote about their CPS cases, or other people's cases, on the internet, and I also mailed back and forth with some of them. America is fully as bad as Western Europe. One reason is almost certainly that most of the quack psychology that is used in so many child protection cases (and which underpins general beliefs about childhood and people) is extra popular in America; some of it has been invented there (though the biggest, baddest wolf Freud was of course European). For instance, the scandalous "kindergarten cases" - McMartin and others, are not an entirely different issue from what we are discussing.

*

There are and have been several US-based websites about CPS cases that are full of information from, among other things, official sources. This one has been running for several years:
Fight CPS

*

Also deserving some attention is the testimony of Nancy Shaefer, a senator in Georgia:
Nancy Shaefer exposes the EVIL CPS
On youtube 2009

Nancy Shaefer lost her senatie seat probably because of her fight for CPS-attacked families. She died under unclear circumstances; there were more than scattered rumours that she might have been killed precisely because she had fought strongly in the Senate of Georgia to have CPS cruelties stopped.

*

One particular article from Massachusetts News (that publication is known to be ultra-something-whatever-you-call-it in American politics, but I have found them credible in several articles I have seen about CPS matters and have found some independent confirmation):
Social Workers Meet Counter Protest at State House

Note: Here, then, we have social workers wanting money and jobs, and justifying their demands by reading out a list of a hundred children who have died, implying that social workers prevent children dying. Then they are faced with the information that 79 had died in CPS care, and the social workers actually confirmed that the 79 were among the hundred!

*

Koshgel is quite right to raise the question of whether things are the same in the USA, because that is what most of us think of immediately when we hear of abuse carried out by the social service: "It may be like that in some other country but I have never noticed it here at home in my own country."

The reason is that unfortunately, it is something like abuse in psychiatric hospitals: it affects relatively few people. We have grown up in/into a culture we then feel we know well, and there are always these "explanations" around: that the people who tell horror-stories about the CPS must be exaggerating, that they are bad parents, that they lie, that they are mentally unstable, that because they are involved, they are not objective. Some are - -, some do - -, but it pales beside what the social services do - serviced of people officially employed to assist children.

The bottom line is: The social services lie, and they have taken a leaf out of Joseph Goebbels' book: Don't tell small lies, because people are used to doing that themselves, so they will recognise them as lies. If you want to lie, tell huge lies, then people will say that this is so enormous that it can't be a lie.


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January 09, 2015, 10:27:04 AM
 #122

  
After I had written the above, I did a search with some combinations of words like "child" "protective" services" "USA" "parents" etc, and up came of course an unending series. While not all protesters' stories seem verifiable, there are more than enough. I also suddenly remembered one, rare story I had of a US court protecting a girl against the CPS (I suppose it is rare because the courts so often accept whatever the CPS says and does, like it is here in Norway). I had myself written a comment, but thought mistakenly that I remembered that it took place in Florida, no doubt because there has been a great deal of trouble about an over-active CPS in Florida. This, then, is Texas:

Texas teen gets restraining order against Child Protective Services
30 September 2011

   "The family’s lawyer contends that thousands of children are needlessly taken from their families every year and placed into foster homes or group homes where they are abused.
    The girl’s family decided to fight back. They took CPS to court and asked for an order of protection, which the judge granted. The court ordered CPS to stay away from the girl and stop harming the chld in the name of “protecting” her."
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January 09, 2015, 02:08:13 PM
 #123

 
After I had written the above, I did a search with some combinations of words like "child" "protective" services" "USA" "parents" etc, and up came of course an unending series. While not all protesters' stories seem verifiable, there are more than enough. I also suddenly remembered one, rare story I had of a US court protecting a girl against the CPS (I suppose it is rare because the courts so often accept whatever the CPS says and does, like it is here in Norway). I had myself written a comment, but thought mistakenly that I remembered that it took place in Florida, no doubt because there has been a great deal of trouble about an over-active CPS in Florida. This, then, is Texas:

Texas teen gets restraining order against Child Protective Services
30 September 2011

   "The family’s lawyer contends that thousands of children are needlessly taken from their families every year and placed into foster homes or group homes where they are abused.
    The girl’s family decided to fight back. They took CPS to court and asked for an order of protection, which the judge granted. The court ordered CPS to stay away from the girl and stop harming the chld in the name of “protecting” her."



Even though you don't hear about it much (unless you look), this is becoming an industry in the US, just like the prison industry, only for kids. Criminal organizations also infiltrate these offices and use them as fronts for child trafficking. As you mentioned before, the "big lie", this is just so horrific, people's minds refuse to believe it, just to avoid the mental anguish of having consciousness of such a horrible system that literally eats children for profit. Furthermore that instantly begs them to question... what are you going to do about it? People would rather pretend that these things don't exist so they can continue their lives an not feel obligated to correct society and humanity by simply denying reality.

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January 09, 2015, 07:07:40 PM
 #124

As you mentioned before, the "big lie", this is just so horrific, people's minds refuse to believe it, just to avoid the mental anguish of having consciousness of such a horrible system that literally eats children for profit. Furthermore that instantly begs them to question... what are you going to do about it? People would rather pretend that these things don't exist so they can continue their lives an not feel obligated to correct society and humanity by simply denying reality.

Truer words have not been spoken. Hear! Hear!


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January 12, 2015, 11:38:38 AM
 #125

  
My fingers itch hyperactively to comment on several things in this thread, among them something back on p 3 from October/November, but let me first take up one posting which I consider to be among the most important recently:

Interesting. decades ago, the Swiss authorities did a similar thing, abducting children from their families and placing them as slaves with farmers. One of the darkest spots in Swiss history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder

Incredible that this is happening again, but on the other hand, people would not work for the government if they were not mentally ill, or unconscionable enough to hurt their fellow citizens in return for job security.  Shocked

The verdingkinder spirit is still highly alive in government authorities today, in Switzerland and elsewhere

If they could, governments would take children from their parents right after birth and turn them into obedient slaves. Switzerland has mandatory Kindergarten now, Germany tax financed daycares, and England school uniforms ... grab them while they're young.

We should take note: 1) this is happening - or has been going on - in many or even most countries (I think) in the Western world, and 2) it is not new. The whole history of how society or groups of do-good-ers have considered it their right to decide over and handle children is relevant.

As regards Switzerland: I am so ashamed that I am such a slow reader of German - I have to look up the dictionary all the time (and have no excuse, it is only laziness that I have never passed the threshold of good vocabulary incorporation) - my deficient German vocabulary makes it hard for me to search the web efficiently for articles and stuff in German. If leopard2 has some more interesting links, please post! In English or in German.

I remember there has been at least one child protection case in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg against Austria in which Austria was found guilty of a violation. I have also read one verdict from a Strasbourg case against Switzerland, in which Switzerland in fact won against the applicants. (In my opinion the state definitely should not have won.) I did not concern a child, but an old woman. The social workers had her forcibly moved to a "foster home" because she would not keep decent cleanliness at her home and the social workers claimed they could not help her there. So, in Switzerland it seems to be forbidden for adults to choose to be left in peace and go to hell if one wants.

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best. It is case c) here:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities


Some examples of kindergarten activities which may also support our understanding of the present system are found here (the whole list gives examples of claims which various institutions and their employees use to prove that children must not live with their parents): examples 12, 32, 35:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
  
There was a comment under an article of mine in 2012 about Switzerland - I take the chance of showing it in its entirety:
"I saw a subtitled documentary on french channel TV5 about switzerland
and how it had been removing children from their homes for years for
the mildest of pranks like hiding the clothes from the clothes line of
a grouchy neighbour or listening to modern music not conforming to a
dress code They were kept in juvenile homes for years together .There
were actual victims( the children now adults )..speaking out about how
their lives had been ruined by this ..and their parents too similarly
had no recourse to the law to get their children ..the state
organisation had pychologist which branded them with tags like sexual
adicts ( because some underclothes had also been in the clothes hidden
from the clothesline )
The swiss story too echoed the things in this article and I think it
would be great if the hindu continues its coverage.

from:  Vinita Gill
Posted on: Jan 31, 2012 at 09:57 IST"

PS: I see that the Wikipedia article links to info about a film: Der Verdingbub (The Foster Boy). I am going to try to get hold of it.

  
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January 17, 2015, 05:40:00 AM
 #126

  
  
I'm not really sure of the specifics after CPS gets involved but doesn't it take a serious situation to actually get CPS involved to have them take the child away?
  
In Norway it seems like I could simply make an anonymous report, and they would come take the child away without any other questions.

I agree one would think it must take a very serious initial trigger to make the CPS take up a case. That is, however, not the case. And yes, an anonymous tip is all they need. Sweden and Denmark are the same. (Finland is probably much the same too, but the information is not so easily accessible to Scandinavians, since Finnish and Scandinavian are not mutually intelligible languages.)

Cases which turn out to be very serious and probably looked fairly serious from the start, are in fact sometimes not taken up by the CPS at all. Thus, we have in Norway over the last few years had one little boy die as the result of serious physical abuse by his stepfather. The CPS had been contacted (several times and over a long time, as far as I remember) but shrugged their shoulders. In another case several children (siblings) have been sexually abused over many years – the parents are now in prison (there has been some dispute among the children, but the convictions are probably just). Again, the CPS in the district had been contacted several times, but the leader of the CPS was a good friend of the mother in the case and refused to do anything. Just recently a boy has starved to death; his mother is now in a mental institution and the case is pending. The CPS had been called in but had "found nothing wrong".

Actually, I see that Grinder and Nemo1024 discussed such cases briefly back on 11 November:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9500611#msg9500611
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg9510336#msg9510336
The case Grinder links to, is probably the same as the last one I just mentioned, but the article is open only to readers who are subscribers.

I more than agree that such cases do not outweigh the cases in which the CPS takes children who clearly should never have been deprived of their families, and whose life in foster care turns out a tragedy. They are not to be weighed against each other at all. The current CPS policy has nothing to do with perhaps making unfortunate decisions in complicated cases. Their basic tenet is that taking a child from its family and "planting" it in different soil has no ill effects whatsoever – all the bad results of foster care and institutional care are "explained" as after-effects of the parents' "deficiencies" and "bad influence"! Not even when the foster care is a long tragedy is the child allowed to go home. The CPS never acknowledge what their own actions have led to.

One reason why the CPS frequently develop psychobabble cases but omit to take up serious cases, is their incompetence – their inability to make realistic assessments or to use realistic measures to find out and to improve the situation for the child concerned. The CPS are really in over their heads in serious cases. Another reason is that in really violent families, in which the family members perhaps have ties to active criminals, the CPS are scared for themselves. Parents whose children are taken from them, react very strongly – as well they might – and if these parents belong to criminal circles, the social workers may be in serious danger.

Psychobabble cases, on the other hand, are all fiction, and this the social workers have been trained to develop. Such cases also provide a living for psychologists whom the CPS engage to write seemingly thorough reports, full of mumbo jumbo quackery, which impresses the courts. – Among such arguments one finds allegations of abnormal speech development or delayed language acquisition in the child. Neither the social workers nor the psychologists are competent at all to assess this, but it sounds scientific and of course they – on an equally unscientific basis – claim that the parents have caused this "deficiency" (I am a linguist myself, have been in court in such cases and have investigated several other cases and looked at what psychology textbooks say. It is deplorable.)

Many cases start by parents asking the social services for financial help. Others start because a child has difficulties at school or "makes trouble", or the parents "make trouble" for the school by demanding that the school stop some harassment going on between children. It is standard for head masters to claim that the child's troubles at school "in reality" stem from home.

Among the clearest indicators that the system is haywire, is the fact that the craziest, silliest arguments – even sheer invention – are all the time logged by the CPS and put into their reports which are presented in the courts, and that they are accepted by the courts. If a case was really so serious that the child had to be taken away from all its family, what need would they then have of coming up with the nonsense-arguments at all?

The list I referred to above:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
is not one of only "first causes" of CPS involvement, but it may still go some way towards providing an answer to koshgel's question.

The articles below also throw some light on the range of "arguments" used when the CPS practice their profession. In the second article, the last section "Seeing the CWS in practice" gives a few details of the way literally "nothing" is twisted into "something serious". The last article I have already referred to for case c), but the other cases too illustrate that destroying family ties may be started by anything the CPS fancies.  

Joar Tranoy:
Child protection and the law

Aage Simonsen:
Norwegian child protection hits immigrants hard

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities


  
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January 17, 2015, 08:21:13 PM
 #127

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best.

I can confirm this is also largely the case within the US as well. There is currently a lot of push here to remove the option for parents to choose to home school their children. In places where it is not specifically outlawed, many parents that home school their children are subjected to exponentially increased scrutiny. Many people don't know it, but upon a birth certificate being issued by the county of birth within the US, the parents are in effect making the child's legal person property of the county.

In effect all children are property of the state, not property of the parents as one might assume. Even into adulthood, unless this contractual entanglement with the county is nullified at the age of 18, the individual remains a ward of the state. This is the primary mechanism and claim to ownership the family courts use here to extricate children from their parents OUTSIDE the rule of law, because it falls within the realm of contract/maritime law, and they reside over the issue as a matter of contract law rather than common law.

Basically IMO, this mentality is a global push to force the socialization/indoctrination of children by requiring they participate in it by law, or by selective enforcement of the law. The concept of children being property of the state is at the core of socialist tenets, and it is a growing threat to the family unit world wide. The state wants to make sure its chattel property is properly indoctrinated and compliant, and the CPS system is just another way to mandate this.

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January 18, 2015, 12:31:54 PM
 #128

The list I referred to above:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
is not one of only "first causes" of CPS involvement, but it may still go some way towards providing an answer to koshgel's question.

That list is a kafkian feast of absurdity, coupled with the undercurrent of malevolent greed!

Quote
(16)  The mother is very small. When the daughter grows to become a teenager, the mother will not be able to tackle her.


Really?! So the mother is supposed to tackle her daughter rather than talk to her?

Those CPS workers, who come up with the "reasons" on that list should be kept far away from children, preferably locked away in an asylum.



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January 19, 2015, 03:35:55 PM
 #129

Have all Russians Citizens been brought back to the Motherland?

money is faster...
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January 21, 2015, 04:07:40 PM
 #130

Arkansas Takes Away 7 Homeschool Children  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931376.0

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January 21, 2015, 04:11:25 PM
 #131

Arkansas Takes Away 7 Homeschool Children  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931376.0

I saw your post and was about to link it back to here.

Wanted to reference one point from Marianne's list in this regard of CPS' aversion to home-schooling:

Quote
(58)  We cannot know what kind of life the children have with their parents. [Reason given by a municipality board as justification for letting the CPS take the children from a family and refusing to let them return home, in spite of copious evidence given before the board of a very good home life. After being taken the children had guards every minute at school to stop them from escaping, and were not even allowed to close the door when they had to go to the lavatory at school. Both parents had professions at which they worked in their home, and wanted to home-school the children, but the children had had plenty of other interaction with other children in the area.]

The list I referred to above:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
is not one of only "first causes" of CPS involvement, but it may still go some way towards providing an answer to koshgel's question.


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January 23, 2015, 07:05:19 AM
 #132

  
While the Bitcoin Forum has been down, two posts of mine have apparently been removed? There might be some technical reason they got lost, to do with the forum being down, but if not, it was perhaps done by Nemo1024 because they were unwanted? That of course is for him to judge. I am posting the first one again and so if he removes it again, I will understand the message (albeit not the reason for it!).

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From 21 January 2015  at 11:35:51 pm:



Regarding the current Czech case (Eva Michaláková's):

A new statement from the Norwegian embassy in Prague yesterday – the contents being of the usual kind which we know well from Norwegian authorities:

Child welfare in Norway and the Michalak boys
The Norwegian Embassy in the Czech Republic, 20 January 2015

The embassy, on behalf of Norwegian authorities, claim that all sorts of things said by Eva Michaláková and by Czech media are untrue, and so on. Also, they claim that the boys are "progressing well" in their foster homes. "Progressing" sounds like an insinuation that they were not doing well before they were taken from their parents, and that the CPS and the foster homes are having to work to compensate for that.
 
But anyway, that is what they say about foster children generally: that things are going so well with them and they were so miserable and so damaged when they were with their parents. Of course all sorts of 'child experts' back this up. This kind of 'information' is not matched by statistics relating to the number of children who try to escape from foster homes, nor those of the end results of foster care, which are appalling: a very high percentage have a miserable life, comprising crime, illness, early death, no education, unemployment, not to speak of tragedies of personal life (cf the points marked • in the section "Protection of the child / Child protection" here: Political program for child protection in local administration).

  
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January 23, 2015, 07:14:19 AM
 #133

^ don't think Nemo1024 has any power to remove posts. Only mods can do that. And usually only if they are spam, and others report it. If both posts were made after 21:44 on 21 Jan, they were lost when the forum went down: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=932315.0

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January 23, 2015, 08:28:29 AM
 #134

  
Right - then I'll try reposting the other one, with two small additions.


From 21 January 2015, at about 11:50 pm:


Another case today: A Lithuanian girl of 9 has (probably) been fetched by her mother and they are on the run. Hopefully back to Lithuania. They are being hunted by Norwegian police, all the border personnel are on the look-out for them, the Norwegian Crime Force are "assisting" and Interpol has been alerted. They are now "wanted internationally" and the police want everybody to be on the look-out and tip the police off if they see the fugitives.

I have made the start of a thread here (hope there will be articles in English about the case on the web by and by, so that I don't have to translate and write so much):
Lithuania / Norway: Girl taken out from foster care by mother


If mother and daughter are caught, the child will be taken back to the foster home (no matter what she wants or says) – or to another foster home at a secret address – and the mother faces a criminal court case and imprisonment. Plenty of cases here, in the section "Temaer" (themes / topics) at BarnasRett (The children's Right):
Barn og familier på flukt fra barnevernet (Children and families fleeing from the child protection services)
Barn og foreldre som blir straffet for opprør mot barnevernet (Children and parents who are punished for revolt against the child protection services)

Unfortunately these articles are all articles in Norwegian. Still, the files give an idea of the profusion of articles and I also post the links for the benefit of readers who can read Scandinavian.

*

Jan Simonsen has been interviewed again by Czech television. He says that the Czech member of the European Parliament Tomáš Zdechovský has been very active getting an overview of very many cases relating to several countries whose children have been confiscated by the Scandinavian ones. He will bring the whole issue to the European Parliament, I think. We shall know more about it in not too many days.

I hope all these countries: The Czech Republic, Russia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Turkey, India - - what have you, will get together in a strong, concerted action against this child 'protection' which is completely off the rails. And they must get Estonia included, because Norwegian child protection is busy there teaching the Estonians how do provide 'welfare and protection' for children!

Nemo, to you think Pavel Astakhov is kept informed about all that is going on? He seemed enough of a maverick not to let any soft soap from Norwegian assurances talk him down. And he speaks Swedish, or so the info says (KGB-educated!).
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January 23, 2015, 10:42:45 PM
 #135

  

A little movement in the Czech case, and I know for a fact that they are working on it in Prague:

Norwegian MPs may discuss Michalák case
Prague Post, 23 January 2015

Czech MEP Tomáš Zdechovský has been pushing for Norway to take action
…… He said Per Sandberg, deputy chairman of the Progress Party, wants to ask the Norwegian Foreign Minister about the case at a meeting of the foreign committee of Norwegian Parliament.
 “This will be for the first that something like this will happen in Norway in relation to a case involving the Czech Republic,” Zdechovský said.


  
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January 24, 2015, 01:59:34 AM
 #136

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best.

I can confirm this is also largely the case within the US as well. There is currently a lot of push here to remove the option for parents to choose to home school their children. In places where it is not specifically outlawed, many parents that home school their children are subjected to exponentially increased scrutiny. Many people don't know it, but upon a birth certificate being issued by the county of birth within the US, the parents are in effect making the child's legal person property of the county.

In effect all children are property of the state, not property of the parents as one might assume. Even into adulthood, unless this contractual entanglement with the county is nullified at the age of 18, the individual remains a ward of the state. This is the primary mechanism and claim to ownership the family courts use here to extricate children from their parents OUTSIDE the rule of law, because it falls within the realm of contract/maritime law, and they reside over the issue as a matter of contract law rather than common law.

Basically IMO, this mentality is a global push to force the socialization/indoctrination of children by requiring they participate in it by law, or by selective enforcement of the law. The concept of children being property of the state is at the core of socialist tenets, and it is a growing threat to the family unit world wide. The state wants to make sure its chattel property is properly indoctrinated and compliant, and the CPS system is just another way to mandate this.

its funny how we have this constitution but it doesn't work unless you live to be a certain age.
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January 24, 2015, 12:23:23 PM
 #137

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best.

I can confirm this is also largely the case within the US as well. There is currently a lot of push here to remove the option for parents to choose to home school their children. In places where it is not specifically outlawed, many parents that home school their children are subjected to exponentially increased scrutiny. Many people don't know it, but upon a birth certificate being issued by the county of birth within the US, the parents are in effect making the child's legal person property of the county.

In effect all children are property of the state, not property of the parents as one might assume. Even into adulthood, unless this contractual entanglement with the county is nullified at the age of 18, the individual remains a ward of the state. This is the primary mechanism and claim to ownership the family courts use here to extricate children from their parents OUTSIDE the rule of law, because it falls within the realm of contract/maritime law, and they reside over the issue as a matter of contract law rather than common law.

Basically IMO, this mentality is a global push to force the socialization/indoctrination of children by requiring they participate in it by law, or by selective enforcement of the law. The concept of children being property of the state is at the core of socialist tenets, and it is a growing threat to the family unit world wide. The state wants to make sure its chattel property is properly indoctrinated and compliant, and the CPS system is just another way to mandate this.

its funny how we have this constitution but it doesn't work unless you live to be a certain age.
The constitution is what is known as common law. What I described is maritime UCC contract law. People in the US (and many other nations) have been tricked into accepting maritime law as if it were common law. Both still exist, they are just 2 completely different jurisdictions. If you want your constitutional rights, you have to extract them with knowledge of the law. It can still be done, but it is not easy (it never was).

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January 25, 2015, 08:34:02 PM
 #138

Right - then I'll try reposting the other one, with two small additions.

First of all, Marianne, I would not have removed any posts even if I could (this is not a self-moderated topic). I welcome the fact that the discussion and revelation expanded from the original topic.

Plenty of cases here, in the section "Temaer" (themes / topics) at BarnasRett (The children's Right):
Barn og familier på flukt fra barnevernet (Children and families fleeing from the child protection services)
Barn og foreldre som blir straffet for opprør mot barnevernet (Children and parents who are punished for revolt against the child protection services)

Unfortunately these articles are all articles in Norwegian. Still, the files give an idea of the profusion of articles and I also post the links for the benefit of readers who can read Scandinavian.

The short article above is so poignant, that I decided to do a quick translation of it:

Quote
Do we have Norwegian refugees?
Yes, both adults and children are desperately trying to get away from CPS.

When the dearest thing people have is attacked and is in danger of being destroyed: own's close family and togetherness with them, people will naturally either raise to defend or escape.

Many parents leads a desperate struggle to retain their kids together with them. Some of them are driven to move to other municipalities to try to get peace. Some see in the end no alternative, but to flee from Norway. Some are trying to go in church asylum or living underground. Some families try to retrieve their forcefully-removed children back home. Young people who are under CPS care flee from their tormentors, but are collected, and sent back.

As routine the government puts in substantial resources to locate and apprehend such fugitives, both children and parents, and lead children back in CPS restraint. Both parents and others who are trying to help children escape from child welfare, are often put under criminal prosecution. The same is also done with the youth whom CPS has or want to have under suppression, and who try to oppose this restraint by physical aggression or resistance.

Nemo, to you think Pavel Astakhov is kept informed about all that is going on? He seemed enough of a maverick not to let any soft soap from Norwegian assurances talk him down. And he speaks Swedish, or so the info says (KGB-educated!).

I think he is well-informed, but Russia is trying to play by the rules, and does so quietly through the diplomatic channels, so as not to put a child into more danger from the Norwegian CPS. The impression I got from the interviews on Russian media, is that Russian authorities are treating such cases with the same care, as the one shown when negotiating with terrorists in armed hostage-taking situations.

It is interesting that you asked about it now. There were no updates about the case of little Oscar since mid-November, and until now. Here is what appeared on the official pages of The Commissioner for the Presidential Council for Children's Rights:
http://www.rfdeti.ru/news/9388-roditeli-rebenka-izyatogo-iz-rossiyskoy-semi-v-norvegii-proydut-specialnye-kursy

And here is my translation from Russian:

Quote
Parents of a child, withdrawn from a Russian family in Norway, will be attending special courses
01/23/2015 12:43

Following the meeting of the parents of Oscar S. with the Norwegian social service staff, it was decided to cooperate with Barnevern, parents will attend special courses.

Russian family from which the Norwegian authorities took their son because of a "milk tooth being knocked out", will continue to cooperate with CPS and will attend special courses.

Recall, on the 8th of October 2014, the government of Norway took the boy from a family of Russian citizens who temporarily came to work to the city of Tromsø. The reason for withdrawal was the "removed milk tooth". The court decided to refer the child to a foster family, and still the decision to return him to his parents is not taken.

Later, the Russian family lawyer Catherine Reiersen said that the court of Tromsø, after the hearing on January 9, 2015 decided to leave Oscar in a foster family, but recommended that the Norwegian CPS take steps to facilitate the return of the child in the family of origin. In the report the judge noted that the family is positive, having a lot of good qualities, conscientious parents, trying to establish a dialogue with the social services.

On the 21st of January there was a meeting of the boy's parents with representatives of Norwegian CPS, which resulted in the decision to cooperate with Barnevern, and parents will attend special courses.

"Given the positive reviews of the parents of Oscar by the judge and social workers, in the presence of which the meetings with the child are conducted, and also thanks to the constructive attitude of parents to cooperate with Barnevern, there is hope for a favourable outcome of the case and the return of the boy in the family of origin" - said The Commissioner for the Presidential Council for Children's Rights, Pavel Astakhov.

From the quote above: "trying to establish a dialogue with the social services". This is one of the emphasised positive qualities!

So, Russia is playing along by the Norwegian rules (it really has no choice - angering the CPS beast may put the child into an even greater peril), the family is still torn, the boy hasn't seen his little sister, who got evacuated to her grandparents, but there is hope...


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January 26, 2015, 09:47:41 AM
 #139

  
I recently rediscovered an article by Christopher Booker from last year, one which I had myself linked to in a small article but had in my inefficiency completely forgotten. I ought to have done more than link to it, because it is very important, so here it is for consumption by us. (It starts off with an illustration of how Russian-Latvian children in the Netherlands were taken - for not speaking Dutch at home! So that adds "nicely" to what you just reported about Oscar, Nemo.)
Here is Booker:

MEPs must investigate this child-snatching scandal
The Telegraph, 22 March 2014

So the EU Commission is hidebound and "uppety" but MEPs – members of the European Parliament – are getting active. Add to this the fact that the social services particularly in Britain are going crazy these last years, they are having a regular feast "redistributing" children, so that the European Court of Human Rights is getting a lot of complaints especially from British parents. The Czech member of the European Parliament Tomáš Zdechovský should therefore find a number of allies in his efforts to have Britain and Scandinavia condemned for their practices (the latest I heard was that he would especially take up the actions of those countries).

  
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January 26, 2015, 09:51:41 AM
 #140

In Norway SWC is big business for several instances, and huige proffit is involved when a child is taken into custody: Foster parents, private and public institutes that hold the child for assessment, advocates, doctors, psychologists, therapeuts, medical companies.
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