Esoteric Investments, LLC (up to 1% earnings)

[rebuilder]

I was able to verify "Esoteric Investments LLC" is registered in NJ. That's all the records show without paying, anyway. From what I can tell, using anonymous shell companies is pretty common in USA, and especially in New Jersey. And besides, Trendon Shavers' identity was well known early on, that didn't help much.

[Rannasha]

Without proof the funds 'invested' are not being used to fund payouts, the only reasonable course of action is to stay far away from schemes like this.

That's absurd logic. Think about this....10 ppl invest, all their funds go into a cryptocurrency on the exchange, the coin(s) are bought then sold at the higher price for profit. Then the funds are placed back in the pool and a payout is calculated based on the amount of profits made. So collectively all the investors' funds are creating profit and by proxy funding the payouts.

How else would profit be made and paid??? From thin air!?

It wouldn't. The operators would take funds from their investors and create the impression of shating profits by paying their victims a small portion of the funds they 'invested'  whenever payouts are due. The users, happy, report success, convince new marks to join and possibly throw more funds at the scheme themselves. This goes on until the amount to be paid to victims exceeds the amount of funds coming in from the victims.

There is no place for trust in giving money to strangers. If a 'business' can't prove they're not operating as outlined above, especially when claiming to operate an investment scheme, they are to be avoided at all costs.

Then how would you like us to prove it to you?
This is not a HYIP, this is a trading pool.

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.

[Digicoinz]

Without proof the funds 'invested' are not being used to fund payouts, the only reasonable course of action is to stay far away from schemes like this.

That's absurd logic. Think about this....10 ppl invest, all their funds go into a cryptocurrency on the exchange, the coin(s) are bought then sold at the higher price for profit. Then the funds are placed back in the pool and a payout is calculated based on the amount of profits made. So collectively all the investors' funds are creating profit and by proxy funding the payouts.

How else would profit be made and paid??? From thin air!?

It wouldn't. The operators would take funds from their investors and create the impression of shating profits by paying their victims a small portion of the funds they 'invested'  whenever payouts are due. The users, happy, report success, convince new marks to join and possibly throw more funds at the scheme themselves. This goes on until the amount to be paid to victims exceeds the amount of funds coming in from the victims.

There is no place for trust in giving money to strangers. If a 'business' can't prove they're not operating as outlined above, especially when claiming to operate an investment scheme, they are to be avoided at all costs.

Then how would you like us to prove it to you?
This is not a HYIP, this is a trading pool.

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.

Nice, I'll forward that to Glenn and Dan, that would be awesome way to prove trading

[1RuneKing]

I was able to verify "Esoteric Investments LLC" is registered in NJ. That's all the records show without paying, anyway. From what I can tell, using anonymous shell companies is pretty common in USA, and especially in New Jersey. And besides, Trendon Shavers' identity was well known early on, that didn't help much.

Thank you for actually checking to see if we were verified instead of merely dismissing us.
I'm not sure about shell companies, but then again I'm not well rehearsed in major scams either

We have some more info if you're interested.
https://www.esotericinvestments.com/pr/oct-22-2014.php

Is there anything else I can help with? And sorry about Digi, he can be a bit rambunctious lol

Without proof the funds 'invested' are not being used to fund payouts, the only reasonable course of action is to stay far away from schemes like this.

That's absurd logic. Think about this....10 ppl invest, all their funds go into a cryptocurrency on the exchange, the coin(s) are bought then sold at the higher price for profit. Then the funds are placed back in the pool and a payout is calculated based on the amount of profits made. So collectively all the investors' funds are creating profit and by proxy funding the payouts.

How else would profit be made and paid??? From thin air!?

It wouldn't. The operators would take funds from their investors and create the impression of shating profits by paying their victims a small portion of the funds they 'invested'  whenever payouts are due. The users, happy, report success, convince new marks to join and possibly throw more funds at the scheme themselves. This goes on until the amount to be paid to victims exceeds the amount of funds coming in from the victims.

There is no place for trust in giving money to strangers. If a 'business' can't prove they're not operating as outlined above, especially when claiming to operate an investment scheme, they are to be avoided at all costs.

Then how would you like us to prove it to you?
This is not a HYIP, this is a trading pool.

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.

I can talk to Glenn Crystal about this. I speak with him daily, I'm sure he'd agree to give proof that it is being traded.

[Digicoinz]

From the Eso Chatbox (times in EDT) (10/26/2014)

(15:58:37 PM)  Digicoinz: @Big Deej: In the forums an idea was posted that I'd like to bring up with you
(15:58:54 PM)  Digicoinz: Exchanges have API's that can be setup
(15:58:58 PM)  Digicoinz: for read only access
(15:59:09 PM)  Digicoinz: which you could use to show trading activity
(15:59:19 PM)  Digicoinz: in fact you could setup a live feed to the website showing tihs possibly?
(16:02:52 PM)  Big Deej: its something we would have to build out
(16:03:26 PM)  Big Deej: We have more than 1 person trading the pool and across multiple exchanges we would need to compile it all down into a summary for the entire pool

[1RuneKing]

I was able to verify "Esoteric Investments LLC" is registered in NJ. That's all the records show without paying, anyway. From what I can tell, using anonymous shell companies is pretty common in USA, and especially in New Jersey. And besides, Trendon Shavers' identity was well known early on, that didn't help much.

Thank you for actually checking to see if we were verified instead of merely dismissing us.
I'm not sure about shell companies, but then again I'm not well rehearsed in major scams either

We have some more info if you're interested.
https://www.esotericinvestments.com/pr/oct-22-2014.php

Is there anything else I can help with? And sorry about Digi, he can be a bit rambunctious lol

Without proof the funds 'invested' are not being used to fund payouts, the only reasonable course of action is to stay far away from schemes like this.

That's absurd logic. Think about this....10 ppl invest, all their funds go into a cryptocurrency on the exchange, the coin(s) are bought then sold at the higher price for profit. Then the funds are placed back in the pool and a payout is calculated based on the amount of profits made. So collectively all the investors' funds are creating profit and by proxy funding the payouts.

How else would profit be made and paid??? From thin air!?

It wouldn't. The operators would take funds from their investors and create the impression of shating profits by paying their victims a small portion of the funds they 'invested'  whenever payouts are due. The users, happy, report success, convince new marks to join and possibly throw more funds at the scheme themselves. This goes on until the amount to be paid to victims exceeds the amount of funds coming in from the victims.

There is no place for trust in giving money to strangers. If a 'business' can't prove they're not operating as outlined above, especially when claiming to operate an investment scheme, they are to be avoided at all costs.

Then how would you like us to prove it to you?
This is not a HYIP, this is a trading pool.

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.

I can talk to Glenn Crystal about this. I speak with him daily, I'm sure he'd agree to give proof that it is being traded.

Digi and I spoke with Glenn via Eso chat, time is Eastern:

@Big Deej: In the forums an idea was posted that I'd like to bring up with you
(15:58:54 PM)  Digicoinz: Exchanges have API's that can be setup
(15:58:58 PM)  Digicoinz: for read only access
(15:59:09 PM)  Digicoinz: which you could use to show trading activity
(15:59:19 PM)  Digicoinz: in fact you could setup a live feed to the website showing tihs possibly?
(16:02:52 PM)  Big Deej: its something we would have to build out
(16:03:26 PM)  Big Deej: We have more than 1 person trading the pool and across multiple exchanges we would need to compile it all down into a summary for the entire pool
(16:03:41 PM)  1RuneKing: oh hey, you are here
(16:03:47 PM)  1RuneKing: okay, digi got ya first
(16:03:56 PM)  Big Deej: as i said on/off today
(16:04:18 PM)  Digicoinz: ya that would be an important implementation. and would quell ppl's worries a lil
(16:04:26 PM)  1RuneKing: indeed


Also I talked with him on skype, time is Pacific:


[1:01:50 PM] Rune King: Hey, could we get some screenshots of trading? Or a read only API-key? There are some people agreeing that these would be the best way to verify that the money is actually being traded and us not being a HYIP/ponzi
[1:04:36 PM] Glenn Crystal: Yes/no
[1:04:44 PM] Glenn Crystal: I have to get all that put together
[1:04:54 PM] Glenn Crystal: Its not as simple as just giving you access to 1 account
[1:05:02 PM] Rune King: yeah yeah
[1:05:07 PM] Rune King: i get it
[1:05:17 PM] Rune King: suggestion to add to the pile
[1:06:06 PM] Glenn Crystal: yeah unfortunately
[1:06:07 PM] Glenn Crystal: lol
[1:06:43 PM] Rune King: you really do need a few coding monkey lol
[1:07:29 PM] Glenn Crystal: yeah im the only one atm
[1:07:42 PM] Rune King: I know... :/
[1:07:29 PM] Glenn Crystal: yeah im the only one atm

[rammy2k2]

I have been invested with Esoteric Investments since the very start. I am https://www.esotericinvestments.com/?refid=3 which is actually one more than Glenn's partner Dan XD
Anyways, I have put in $100 when it started, and I have not once felt that my money would be lost. Glenn and I stay in contact every day and have become good friends and I feel I can trust him, just as you all should as well. But I can't force trust and it's something you're gonna have to find on your own.

Thats how a PONZI works u poor victim ... (u could be a fake account tho)

[1RuneKing]

I have been invested with Esoteric Investments since the very start. I am https://www.esotericinvestments.com/?refid=3 which is actually one more than Glenn's partner Dan XD
Anyways, I have put in $100 when it started, and I have not once felt that my money would be lost. Glenn and I stay in contact every day and have become good friends and I feel I can trust him, just as you all should as well. But I can't force trust and it's something you're gonna have to find on your own.

Thats how a PONZI works u poor victim ... (u could be a fake account tho)

It's also how people legitimately gain trust.

I randomly met him on cryptsy chat, and we chatted a bit and exchanged Skypes.
He taught me how to arb, and a few other tricks and what to watch for.
I've helped him with ideas as to what to include on the website, and I gave him the idea to start up his trading pool. (Esoteric Investments existed before the pool, but it had kinda faded to just him)
I'm helping him create games for the site, and in general for the company.
We give eachother ideas and tell eachother when we notice good trades/coins.
I help look over pages that are added to the site to make sure they're clear and correct.
He vents to me about crap in his social life, and I to him.

That has all happened over a couple of months...

I may not know him face to face (we live on opposite sides of the country) but I trust him, and I feel I can count on him as a friend (we are friends on FB ). It makes me disgusted to see people dismiss him and the company as a scam.

[Phantom Trader]

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.
[/quote]

Finally! 3 pages more of comments and finally a suggestion to improve the companies shortfalls and what you'd like to see from us rather than more and more of the same comments saying the same thing.

The read only API key would expose our position in the markets so a real time one mite be a liability to our trading. Though we may be able to find some way to make it work. possibly alter/limit its responses to restrict open orders though that may be something that'd have to be done on the exchanges' side. More Glenn's department than my own.

[1RuneKing]

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.


Finally! 3 pages more of comments and finally a suggestion to improve the companies shortfalls and what you'd like to see from us rather than more and more of the same comments saying the same thing.

The read only API key would expose our position in the markets so a real time one mite be a liability to our trading. Though we may be able to find some way to make it work. possibly alter/limit its responses to restrict open orders though that may be something that'd have to be done on the exchanges' side. More Glenn's department than my own.

DAN!!!!  

Now we just need Glenn to comment lol

[Phantom Trader]

DAN!!!!  

Now we just need Glenn to comment lol

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.


Finally! 3 pages more of comments and finally a suggestion to improve the companies shortfalls and what you'd like to see from us rather than more and more of the same comments saying the same thing.

The read only API key would expose our position in the markets so a real time one mite be a liability to our trading. Though we may be able to find some way to make it work. possibly alter/limit its responses to restrict open orders though that may be something that'd have to be done on the exchanges' side. More Glenn's department than my own.

DAN!!!!  

Now we just need Glenn to comment lol

Maybe. If people want to talk to Glenn (Big Deej) they can go to the site chat. This forum has been 90% attacks at our personal character. I can handle that. I'm bullet proof to insults at this point from being in a fraternity and being one of "the weird kids" in High school, I've had my share. So I'm used to dealing with ignorance and peoples' BS. Glenn would take it more personally. That's why you don't see him on this forum. He isn't hiding but he isn't gonna get on here solely to be attacked.

[1RuneKing]

DAN!!!!  

Now we just need Glenn to comment lol

How to prove it? Simple, produce evidence of the trades that were made. Screenshots of completed trade-orders would be a start, but they could be doctored. A read-only API-key would be better.


Finally! 3 pages more of comments and finally a suggestion to improve the companies shortfalls and what you'd like to see from us rather than more and more of the same comments saying the same thing.

The read only API key would expose our position in the markets so a real time one mite be a liability to our trading. Though we may be able to find some way to make it work. possibly alter/limit its responses to restrict open orders though that may be something that'd have to be done on the exchanges' side. More Glenn's department than my own.

DAN!!!!  

Now we just need Glenn to comment lol

Maybe. If people want to talk to Glenn (Big Deej) they can go to the site chat. This forum has been 90% attacks at our personal character. I can handle that. I'm bullet proof to insults at this point from being in a fraternity and being one of "the weird kids" in High school, I've had my share. So I'm used to dealing with ignorance and peoples' BS. Glenn would take it more personally. That's why you don't see him on this forum. He isn't hiding but he isn't gonna get on here solely to be attacked.

True... Hey, would you PM me your skype if youve got one? I've had GLenns for a while

[eneloop]

[...]
and again we're in the US we can't get up and disappear from the government or from you all, exit strategy is a hell of a lot more difficult. and the first thing we want to do is get accreditation anywhere we can in the states with FINcen and SEC, not host a bitcoin conference like a past favorite company of many of us. So where are our red flags that say we’re a scam besides our registrations.
[...]
We'll be able to prove ourselves with what we got given time, we don't need investments so stay un-invested
[...]

I always read "we will" and "we want"... you won't get any trust without an sustaibable audit. An audit that proofes your successful arbitrage activities to pay your customers interest. -> When can we expect this?
If you don't need any customers investments then it was a really bad decision to open your doors after bitcoin-trader.biz fiasco without any audit. If you want to gain some trust stop to take investors money NOW (you don't need it).

A registered company means nothing. No.1 lame excuse in crypto world is "we got hacked, we have to file bankruptsy". Happend several times and the hack was just an inside job.

Still waiting for a comment from the big boss.

This forum has been 90% attacks at our personal character.

The only one attacking other users on a personal level is Digicoinz.

I'm glad there is also a legendary one involved in this thread now.

[fedor3327]

Interesting .....

Seems they are already operating a new scheme: https://www.esotericinvestments.com

I have contacted their support with a silly question and the reply was almost identical to what BT replied at the time they were still replying.

What was the question and response from Esoteric Investments and Bitcoin Trader? Because my impression is a strong thats not them just someone else that knows how to make money in the crypto markets and is opening that ability up to other people...making more in the process I'm sure, as that is business.

My research found that Esoteric Investments isn't Bitcoin Trader. They are a registered LLC in New Jersey, USA by Dan Pace and Glenn Crystal (Not John Carley) since March when Bitcoin trader was doing fairly well. Pretty simple business search could have found that out for you.

Plus they are in America if Esoteric goes Gox in America, The United stated will not hesitate to drop the hammer on a scam especially a bitcoin scam they are just waiting to make an example of someone. And it was pretty clear that Bitcoin Trader was avoiding being stations in the USA despite most of their actual business and events were in the states.

If you all were so in love with Bitcoin Traders performance I think Esoteric is at least worth a look as the next thing, and hopefully Bitcoin trader doesnt gox and then we can diversify among two of these passive incomes.

I'm already in them for a small trial amount to test the waters. Feel free to use my referral to help me earn a little more.
https://www.esotericinvestments.com?refid=4

Before he said that he isn't eso owner but customer. After some doxxing .... He is owner he wide open and friendly too.
Is someone here from NJ ? Maybe that real address from someone else..... Too suspicious .....
Anyway he cannot take investments without license. In US such license cost...... too much. I know what I'm saying.

I think that's obvious scam.

Edit. Gave neg trust. Without license that website is a scam.
Regards.

[1RuneKing]

Interesting .....

Seems they are already operating a new scheme: https://www.esotericinvestments.com

I have contacted their support with a silly question and the reply was almost identical to what BT replied at the time they were still replying.

What was the question and response from Esoteric Investments and Bitcoin Trader? Because my impression is a strong thats not them just someone else that knows how to make money in the crypto markets and is opening that ability up to other people...making more in the process I'm sure, as that is business.

My research found that Esoteric Investments isn't Bitcoin Trader. They are a registered LLC in New Jersey, USA by Dan Pace and Glenn Crystal (Not John Carley) since March when Bitcoin trader was doing fairly well. Pretty simple business search could have found that out for you.

Plus they are in America if Esoteric goes Gox in America, The United stated will not hesitate to drop the hammer on a scam especially a bitcoin scam they are just waiting to make an example of someone. And it was pretty clear that Bitcoin Trader was avoiding being stations in the USA despite most of their actual business and events were in the states.

If you all were so in love with Bitcoin Traders performance I think Esoteric is at least worth a look as the next thing, and hopefully Bitcoin trader doesnt gox and then we can diversify among two of these passive incomes.

I'm already in them for a small trial amount to test the waters. Feel free to use my referral to help me earn a little more.
https://www.esotericinvestments.com?refid=4

Before he said that he isn't eso owner but customer. After some doxxing .... He is owner he wide open and friendly too.
Is someone here from NJ ? Maybe that real address from someone else..... Too suspicious .....
Anyway he cannot take investments without license. In US such license cost...... too much. I know what I'm saying.

I think that's obvious scam.

Edit. Gave neg trust. Without license that website is a scam.
Regards.

Esoteric Investments is owned by Glenn Crystal (Big Deej) and Dan Pace (Phantom Trader)
Dan only recently re-partnered with Glenn, so he may have been a customer at one point

You do not need a liscense to take investments in BTC, only in USD which Esoteric Investments is currently trying to obtain, and should obtain in the near future. Which is why at this point it only offers a BTC investment.
The USD investments will offer a fixed 5% return

This is not a scam, you can verify that it is registered in the US yourself.

[Puppet]

You do not need a liscense to take investments in BTC, only in USD

How often are you going to repeat that lie?

The SEC argued that the investments in Bitcoin offered by BTCST are both investment contracts and notes, and thus securities.

http://www.communitycurrencieslaw.org/securities/

[fedor3327]

What the fuck......   Phantom Trader on October 15, 2014, 04:57:26 PM(his first post, check his profile) said that he is customer and "testing water" 

Again, obvious scam.

Edit. Think need to report that site to FINCEN .

Regards.

[1RuneKing]

You do not need a liscense to take investments in BTC, only in USD

How often are you going to repeat that lie?

The SEC argued that the investments in Bitcoin offered by BTCST are both investment contracts and notes, and thus securities.

http://www.communitycurrencieslaw.org/securities/

First time I have said it

Also I will pass this on to Glenn, though he may already be aware of it.
I am not 100% filled in on the legal verifications that Glenn has acquired for the company, and he may already have that taken care of.
Though reading through this myself, and a few other pages, there is nothing that specifically states that a company must get a liscense to work with BTC investments or payments.

What the fuck......   Phantom Trader on October 15, 2014, 04:57:26 PM(his first post, check his profile) said that he is customer and "testing water" 

Again, obvious scam.


Regards.

At that time Phantom (Dan Pace) was not a partner in tge company, he is now, and has been for about a week.

[fedor3327]

Right now without license it is a scam. Please show license and I will remove neg. trust.

Edit.

Here is legit company looks like:
https://spectrocoin.com/en/about.html

Regards.

[1RuneKing]

Right now without license it is a scam. Please show license and I will remove neg. trust.

Edit.

Here is legit company looks like:
https://spectrocoin.com/en/about.html

Regards.

Would a normal USD liscense be enough for you? Glenn should be getting one here in the near future.

Also, I wouldn't trust that, it's incorporated in Lithuania. And I see nothing about any liscenses.