Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2016, 10:33:16 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Cross post: Petition to form an indepentent Objectivist State  (Read 5437 times)
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 23, 2012, 03:50:16 AM
 #1

Hi,

This is kind of related to Bitcoin, in terms of laissez-fair capitalism. Perhaps, some of you here are also Objectivists.

http://forum.objectivismonline.com/index.php?showtopic=23489


Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
1480717996
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480717996

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480717996
Reply with quote  #2

1480717996
Report to moderator
1480717996
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480717996

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480717996
Reply with quote  #2

1480717996
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492


View Profile
May 23, 2012, 04:00:51 AM
 #2

You should call it Rapture. Smiley

The US government will never agree to those terms. And even if it did, you couldn't trust it not to break its promises later.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540


Drama Junkie


View Profile
May 23, 2012, 01:57:16 PM
 #3

Distributed Republics

You are right it's the end of the world as we know it, in a good way though. Smiley
imo we are heading there - one way or the other.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 23, 2012, 02:31:28 PM
 #4

You could say then that we can't trust USA govt respecting the constitution.  If you think that the govt can break any law and amendment at any time, then you have a bigger problem than income taxes -- a totalitarian state. But USA prides itself of not being one. Lets capitalize on this fact to create an amendment: "The right to small groups to create self-sustaining isolated communities forgoing benefits of USA social security, in exchange for not paying income taxes".

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540


Drama Junkie


View Profile
May 23, 2012, 03:33:38 PM
 #5

That's one of these things you don't ask for permission or approval.

You do it.
It's a systematic law of how structures emerge and empires fall. No declaration of agenda or political worldview can change that.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
MoneyIsDebt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 180



View Profile
May 24, 2012, 01:18:46 AM
 #6

Why not buy one of the Greek islands. I hear they're in need of hard cash.

Sig for sale
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 24, 2012, 03:32:17 AM
 #7

No, if we just get together and declare that we don't want to pay income taxes, two things will happen:

- we will stay in the territory but be forced to pay taxes, rendering the whole effort moot
- we will abandon the whole work effort
- we may try to rebel, but then, we degrade into the mode like in historical wars

The whole point to do this the right way.

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
ineededausername
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784


bitcoin hundred-aire


View Profile
May 24, 2012, 03:42:29 AM
 #8

Please explain why you think this even MIGHT work, at all....

(BFL)^2 < 0
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 24, 2012, 04:23:25 AM
 #9

There are degrees on how much it will work

- Worst case: doesn't work at all on the govt -- it will raise public awareness as an alternative to the Tea Party, and occupy.  We know what we want, and we don't do any vandalism.
- Mid case: We get some discussion going with govt: people will observe us and will get hope that everything is possible.
- Good case: we get started, and work things out as we move along. Create journals and publicity. Get people excited. Kind replay the story of Bitcoin in this new domain.

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
ShireSilver
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 383



View Profile WWW
May 24, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
 #10

Just move to New Hampshire and put in some effort to change things. Lots of us here will help, and many of us are already working on it.

Free State Project

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 25, 2012, 03:49:04 AM
 #11

I know about the Free State Project, and in fact, its mentioned in the post.  The problem is that the Free State project doesn't solve the federal tax problem, which is the biggest one.  It removes the state tax, which is not a big deal, because already now I can register a company in a tax free state, like Delaware. 

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
ElectricMucus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1540


Drama Junkie


View Profile
May 25, 2012, 11:41:10 AM
 #12

what does that have to do with objectivism anyway?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 26, 2012, 02:20:16 AM
 #13

Objectivism implies a free society, that pays no taxes.

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
herzmeister
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile WWW
May 26, 2012, 11:57:31 PM
 #14

Why not buy one of the Greek islands. I hear they're in need of hard cash.

The island will be taken by the EU then. As collateral.

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
Stardust
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 190


View Profile
May 27, 2012, 03:16:58 AM
 #15

frisco2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 274


View Profile
May 27, 2012, 07:04:02 AM
 #16

I don't hate the idea of government. I want a government that protects my rights to private property (rather than steals it). As for Somalia, their government has no ability to protect anyone: no police / military power.  Having a govt, police, army, constitution and a court system is the key to enable free capitalism.

Just10.com -- Ad-Free Private Social Network for just 10 of your friends.
herzmeister
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile WWW
May 27, 2012, 07:35:56 AM
 #17

Converse fallacy of accident, fallacy of false cause.

The truth ist rather this:

Somali “Anarchy” Is More Orderly than Somali Government


https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
freespirit
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 161


View Profile
May 27, 2012, 09:33:11 AM
 #18

Forget the USA, the US government behemoth will never go along with this. As well as most countries. The problem is that the majority of people around the world got used to the idea that taxation is some kind of inalienable right of the state (and that the state may increase or invent whatever taxes they want whenever they just need/want more money). Come to think of it, just around a 100 years ago the US Constitution explicitly prohibited income taxation...

If you want to get anywhere with this idea, you need to consider implementing it elsewhere. I'd suggest looking into Georgia (NOT the US state). Since 2004 their government seems to consist of mostly libertarian/libertarian-ish politicians. Read about this guy for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakha_Bendukidze
Quote
After having been appointed Minister of Economy in the new Saakashvili cabiner for a semester, since December 14, 2004 to January 31, 2008, he was State Minister on reforms coordination, coordinating government efforts to liberalize the economy.
Quote
He is known as a committed libertarian[1] and strong supporter of market economy, deregulation and privatization , stating that the Georgian government should sell everything except its honor. During 2004-2007, under his leadership, Georgia became the top-reforming country in the world, according to the World Bank's Doing Business report. In particular, Georgia jumped from 137 to 18 on the ease of doing business scale, ahead of Germany and France.
Some useful information is available here: http://www.investingeorgia.org/?40/10_reasons_to_invest_in_georgia/
They still have some taxes though: http://www.investingeorgia.org/?84/tax_system/ (note "tax free regimes" at the bottom however)
Wall Street Jornal exemplified this country as a reformer (towards free market, deregulation etc.) and suggested that EU countries should learn from them: http://www.adamsmith.org/news/in-the-news/georgian-times-wsj-exmplifies-georgia-as-reformer-in-economic-sector

They also apparently have a lot of undeveloped land (and the population is just around 4.5 million) to the point that they call for investors to build a whole new city: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/world/europe/in-georgia-plans-for-an-instant-city.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Besides, they actually tried to implement something similar to your idea on their own! (although without tax-free component) See http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/02/georgia
Quote
In August 2010, showing commendable imagination from a 5,000-mile distance, the authorities in Tbilisi invited South African farmers wanting a change of scene to consider an alternative: farming in Georgia. The country has an exuberantly pro-business government, low crime rates, and soil that positively squelches with underexploited potential.
Of course, you would need numbers to approach them with this idea but they certainly are flexible.
Even Donald Trump has interests there already (that should be a positive indication): http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/story/2012-04-22/trump-georgia-apartments/54472442/1
Hawker
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700



View Profile
May 27, 2012, 09:38:42 AM
 #19

Honduras is creating "free" zones that will be within its sovereignty but not taxed or administered by it.  They have literally decided that the only way to get administration without corruption and human rights violations is that their own state exclude itself.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/urban-prosperity-in-the-red/article2412947/

Would one of them be the place to try your idea?


freespirit
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 161


View Profile
May 27, 2012, 09:50:11 AM
 #20

Honduras is creating "free" zones that will be within its sovereignty but not taxed or administered by it.  They have literally decided that the only way to get administration without corruption and human rights violations is that their own state exclude itself.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/urban-prosperity-in-the-red/article2412947/

Would one of them be the place to try your idea?
That looks more like the opposite of what the topic starter is looking for. Regions managed by "innovative" socialist-ish governments like Canadian? Shocked
Although, perhaps they would be open to creating regions with different rules.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!