Was Bitcoin actually just a Pump and Dump?

[pereira4]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

[STT]

No I'd say that argument cant really be justified.  Gold has unique properties that require no maintenance or belief to continue in its existence, its not a naturally produced metal on earth and the way it reacts is 'useful' in ways nothing else quite matches.  We can use copper or all sorts of other metals but none are quite the same, its established by itself as a product and the biggest thing is it doesnt degrade.
  Bitcoin is designed to be duplicated, its substantially different and the network effect of belief, maintenance, usage to prove its worth and continued use is very much part of its make up.  Gold could go unused by everyone on the planet forgotten for a century and those who find it in a hundred years would still be able to recognise it as different from anything else and in that time nothing else could have replaced it as a product.  Neither is essential to live by but of the two gold has more unique values where bitcoin is a pinnacle of technology so far

[deisik]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Gold's value is evidenced by the fact that if it wasn't precious we would be lining our lives with it, in countless ways. It has remarkable properties.

[Slark]

I don't have any doubt that this was all just big pump and dump, but my theory is, even the BTC creators didn't realize that Bitcoin would go this far.

No, not really. People tend to forget that bitcoin was not worth anything during its early stage. How exactly you expect that Satoshi knew it will become popular.
If creation of bitcoin was only a pump scheme aimed for eating a lot of money fast, then why Satoshi did not dump his coins?
There are a lot of contradictions and unproven facts in 'pump & dump theory' for it to be viable.

[PenguinFire]

I don't have any doubt that this was all just big pump and dump, but my theory is, even the BTC creators didn't realize that Bitcoin would go this far.

No, not really. People tend to forget that bitcoin was not worth anything during its early stage. How exactly you expect that Satoshi knew it will become popular.
If creation of bitcoin was only a pump scheme aimed for eating a lot of money fast, then why Satoshi did not dump his coins?
There are a lot of contradictions and unproven facts in 'pump & dump theory' for it to be viable.

I am sure it's many unique features allowed him to have the belief it had the possibly to become adopted and and become popular.

[NeuroticFish]

No. It was a solid project, not a pump and dump.
People don't have the patience to wait this much for a scam. If it would have been a pump and dump, Bitcoin would have become dust even before the first altcoins came to life.

I think people doing this pump and dump because of arbitrage from one exchanger through another exchanger so if they dont have the patience they still can get their own profit through pumping and dumping. But how is this things become a solid project if its price is still volatile?

Stock market, Forex, name it. Everywhere pumps and dumps can happen. And if they don't, it may be because of the regulations and the high volumes.
Bitcoin market is not regulated and it's full of newbies. Anyone that has enough money and know some psychology and trading techniques can take profit really.
And then there are the huge mining facilities which, frankly, work to gain fiat, not bitcoin.

Imho Facebook is a much weaker project than bitcoin. Facebook stocks are also traded, they also have better or worse times and some know how to profit. And yet, I didn't hear voices telling that FB is just a pump and dump.

US dollar. Just ask around how much you could buy with 20$ some 50-70 years ago. Now its value is greatly diluted. Is USD just a pump and dump?

[Amph]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

the same is for the technology sorrounding bitcoin, it has more to offer than just being an instrument for trading, just think of what you can build on top of the blockchain that can make your life easy or better

[deisik]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

the same is for the technology sorrounding bitcoin, it has more to offer than just being an instrument for trading, just think of what you can build on top of the blockchain that can make your life easy or better

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

[Amph]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

the same is for the technology sorrounding bitcoin, it has more to offer than just being an instrument for trading, just think of what you can build on top of the blockchain that can make your life easy or better

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

because you need money to make that happen, some companies are moving in that way, you just have to be patient...i guess those that say that people here have no patience, are right after all...

moreover bitcoin is still viewed as a risky environment

[deisik]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

the same is for the technology sorrounding bitcoin, it has more to offer than just being an instrument for trading, just think of what you can build on top of the blockchain that can make your life easy or better

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

because you need money to make that happen, some companies are moving in that way, you just have to be patient...i guess those that say that people here have no patience, are right after all...

moreover bitcoin is still viewed as a risky environment

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

[deisik]

Wtf, they can't even deal with existing problems (e.g. high transaction confirmation times, block size limits, and whatnot), let alone add new really useful features that could potentially make your claims somewhat less irrelevant (e.g. integrate the concept of decentralized exchange into the Bitcoin protocol)...

[Amph]

Just remember a bitcoin is a place holder for the speculative value that we the public assign to it. It has no intrinsic value, and as such reacts like a stock in the speculative market, meaning it is extremely volatile.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Gold has value because of network effect, just like Bitcoin. In any case, Bitcoin has more intrinsic value than Gold, because it's a lot more useful than a piece of metal.

You obviously forget that this metal has many uses beyond just being a precious one. So you may want to think again which has more "intrinsic" value...

the same is for the technology sorrounding bitcoin, it has more to offer than just being an instrument for trading, just think of what you can build on top of the blockchain that can make your life easy or better

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

because you need money to make that happen, some companies are moving in that way, you just have to be patient...i guess those that say that people here have no patience, are right after all...

moreover bitcoin is still viewed as a risky environment

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

the benefits are there, you don't need to know it, it is all written on the internet, there are many attempts to use the blockchain not just as a public ledger, everyone know it, current problems has nothing to do with that, they are affecting bitcoin only not its technology

i'm talking about what you can do with the blochchain technology

[deisik]

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

because you need money to make that happen, some companies are moving in that way, you just have to be patient...i guess those that say that people here have no patience, are right after all...

moreover bitcoin is still viewed as a risky environment

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

the benefits are there, you don't need to know it, it is all written on the internet, there are many attempts to use the blockchain not just as a public ledger, everyone know it, current problems has nothing to do with that, they are affecting bitcoin only not its technology

i'm talking about what you can do with the blochchain technology

And what exactly can I do with the blockchain technology, which would make my life easier but requires a lot of money invested? Why don't you just provide an example? I guess you are just making unsubstantiated claims in the vain hope that I will take your words at their face-value...

No, I don't buy pigs in pokes

[lumeire]

It's a free market, pumps and dumps are included altogether

[Amph]

I'm really fascinated at the amount of wishful thinking and pipe dreaming going on here. What exactly does it have to offer, and why is it not here already if it does make my (or anyone else's) life easier or better?

In short, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

because you need money to make that happen, some companies are moving in that way, you just have to be patient...i guess those that say that people here have no patience, are right after all...

moreover bitcoin is still viewed as a risky environment

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

the benefits are there, you don't need to know it, it is all written on the internet, there are many attempts to use the blockchain not just as a public ledger, everyone know it, current problems has nothing to do with that, they are affecting bitcoin only not its technology

i'm talking about what you can do with the blochchain technology

And what exactly can I do with the blockchain technology, which would make my life easier but requires a lot of money invested? Why don't you just provide an example? I guess you are just making unsubstantiated claims in the vain hope that I will take your words at their face-value...

No, I don't buy pigs in pokes

this is a cool project http://joel.mn/post/103546215249/the-blockchain-application-stack

basically turning everything on internet(like virtual storage) into decentralized application, you can build a freenet alike thing in top of the blockchain

it would be cool to have something like amazon c2 but in its decentralized version, so provided by the nodes

or another example is in the gaming industry, integrating it in the blockchain http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/04/26/blockchain-gaming-moonga/

what is really cool about this is the fact that you can be sustained by many nodes(which continue to expand the network every day) that have far more power than any centralized service, that you can find on the web

while gold can offer a physical impact other than a mere value based on its chart, bitcoin can offer a virtual impact, with its technology

both are more than just a trading assets

[deisik]

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

the benefits are there, you don't need to know it, it is all written on the internet, there are many attempts to use the blockchain not just as a public ledger, everyone know it, current problems has nothing to do with that, they are affecting bitcoin only not its technology

i'm talking about what you can do with the blochchain technology

And what exactly can I do with the blockchain technology, which would make my life easier but requires a lot of money invested? Why don't you just provide an example? I guess you are just making unsubstantiated claims in the vain hope that I will take your words at their face-value...

No, I don't buy pigs in pokes

this is a cool project http://joel.mn/post/103546215249/the-blockchain-application-stack

basically turning everything on internet(like virtual storage) into decentralized application, you can build a freenet alike thing in top of the blockchain

it would be cool to have something like amazon c2 but in its decentralized version, so provided by the nodes

or another example is in the gaming industry, integrating it in the blockchain http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/04/26/blockchain-gaming-moonga/

what is really cool about this is the fact that you can be sustained by many nodes(which continue to expand the network every day) that have far more power than any centralized service, that you can find on the web

Cool, cool, cool... Do you think that naming something "cool" would lure someone into it? These "projects" look more like jokes than real developments. The first link is actually a blog post, the second about some obscure game where you can trade what is called "cards" through the blockchain (nice feature indeed, as a proof of concept, (ab)using the blockchain signed messaging), though the game itself has nothing to do with either Bitcoin or its blockchain (it has been released in 2009)...

Surely not something that I would care about

[Amph]

So you don't know what benefits Bitcoin provides (beside being a vehicle for speculation and gambling) that are worthy pouring money at. Should I remind you how little time it took till Bitcoin established itself in online gambling, trading and scamming?

There are heaps of money searching for an investment opportunity across the globe, but this has nothing to do with pipe dreams and wishful thinking, sorry

the benefits are there, you don't need to know it, it is all written on the internet, there are many attempts to use the blockchain not just as a public ledger, everyone know it, current problems has nothing to do with that, they are affecting bitcoin only not its technology

i'm talking about what you can do with the blochchain technology

And what exactly can I do with the blockchain technology, which would make my life easier but requires a lot of money invested? Why don't you just provide an example? I guess you are just making unsubstantiated claims in the vain hope that I will take your words at their face-value...

No, I don't buy pigs in pokes

this is a cool project http://joel.mn/post/103546215249/the-blockchain-application-stack

basically turning everything on internet(like virtual storage) into decentralized application, you can build a freenet alike thing in top of the blockchain

it would be cool to have something like amazon c2 but in its decentralized version, so provided by the nodes

or another example is in the gaming industry, integrating it in the blockchain http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/04/26/blockchain-gaming-moonga/

what is really cool about this is the fact that you can be sustained by many nodes(which continue to expand the network every day) that have far more power than any centralized service, that you can find on the web

Cool, cool, cool... Do you think that naming something "cool" would lure someone into it? These "projects" look more like jokes than real developments. The first link is actually a blog post, the second about some obscure game where you can trade what is called "cards" through the blockchain (nice feature indeed, as a proof of concept, (ab)using the blockchain signed messaging), though the game itself has nothing to do with either Bitcoin or its blockchain (it has been released in 2009)...

Surely not something that I would care about

naming something cool, doesn't have anything to do with what you are saying or thinking, it just my opinion on that particular subject, and the fact that you don't care about it, doesn't makes those things less useful, and unlike you, i actually care, about implementing gaming on the blockchain

i think you are just trolling to be honest

[victoryboy]

No,Bitcoin never was pump and dump it was created for some very serious purposes but these were and are people who sometimes loses patience and dump their holdings for little profits.This should be traded to maintain the price and increase it value so both trade and holding a combination is needed.

[Scamalert]

I must admit the bitcoin exhange rate looks a bit like those shitty altcoin.
First very low price, jump when hit major exhange, hype, and then dead cat bounce.
But I don't think bitcoin was a pump and dump, if that is so, then would Mr. Satoshi have dumbt at 1200 USD. But bitcoin is not over yet, we will still see 1000 USD again... just a matter of time.