[ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping

[bitllionaire]

I want to ask about the sell

I have read it is like a software IPO but what is different to the other software IPOs like maid or etherem? I mean you pay bitcoin you get a coin isn't it?

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[AlanX]

How different is Factom compared to a website like http://www.proofofexistence.com/?

Factom is different in a number of ways.  PoE hashes single files and records the hash into the Bitcoin Blockchain.  You could log many files if you wanted to, and only reveal the files you wish at a later date.  

PoE only hashes a single digital thing per Bitcoin transaction.  Factom combines many entries together and places a single hash into the Blockchain every 10 minutes.  Even if thousands or even millions of entries were placed into Factom, only the fixed entries are placed into Bitcoin.

Factom allows whatever data you like to be hashed and secured.  So the data entered and maintained by the Factom network is more flexible.

Factom is way cheaper. PoE charges 5 mBTC to log an entry (~$1.46 at the moment).  Factom would cost roughly ~$0.001 to record an entry.  That's because everyone using the system is "sharing" the Bitcoin entry.

[AlanX]

I want to ask about the sell

I have read it is like a software IPO but what is different to the other software IPOs like maid or etherem? I mean you pay bitcoin you get a coin isn't it?

You get a token that gives you access to the protocol.  We will not have access to the raise until we meet some hard milestones, the first of which is to produce a usable implementation of the protocol.  That will give us access to 1/3 of the raise.  To get the complete raise, we have to deliver the entire protocol.

So the bigger differences are in the execution and accountability.

[AlanX]

The difference between going "all in" with a PoW cryptocurrency vs an ICO is that you invite scammers to target the technology. It's the same as the premined altcoins. I suppose if they offer a burn address for bitcoins that will suffice as proof they are not scamming. But they have to actually give you a working token, not a placeholder token. So far, I have not seen this offer. So to say you are "all in" is purely hype. I will take back the pitchman accusation when there is an actual offer of working factoids that are either bought through PoB or capital investment in the FACTOM network and not merely a pump and dump ICO

This is why we are partnering with Koinify.  We do not get access to any of the raise until certain milestones are met.  The first milestone is a working protocol, with a working token.

So we do not get anything unless we deliver the value in the form of a working protocol.

Getting all the Federated Servers in place and the election process running actually requires a working protocol.  That is the last milestone. 

I hope that helps.  We are not at all trying to scam anyone, and we are not asking anyone to "trust us!  We can make it work!".  The place holder token will exist only through the crowd sale, since we cannot create the genesis block until the end of the crowd sale.  Then we kick it all off.  If we are not ready at that point, we will get no money from the token sale until we are in fact ready and can boot the protocol.  Then when the protocol kicks off, all the tokens are real.

I hope that helps.

[ELikesCrypto]

I would like to know how many Factoids you plan to distribute in the presale? What will be the value? What is the Market Cap you are aiming for?

[cbeast]

The difference between going "all in" with a PoW cryptocurrency vs an ICO is that you invite scammers to target the technology. It's the same as the premined altcoins. I suppose if they offer a burn address for bitcoins that will suffice as proof they are not scamming. But they have to actually give you a working token, not a placeholder token. So far, I have not seen this offer. So to say you are "all in" is purely hype. I will take back the pitchman accusation when there is an actual offer of working factoids that are either bought through PoB or capital investment in the FACTOM network and not merely a pump and dump ICO

This is why we are partnering with Koinify.  We do not get access to any of the raise until certain milestones are met.  The first milestone is a working protocol, with a working token.

So we do not get anything unless we deliver the value in the form of a working protocol.

Getting all the Federated Servers in place and the election process running actually requires a working protocol.  That is the last milestone. 

I hope that helps.  We are not at all trying to scam anyone, and we are not asking anyone to "trust us!  We can make it work!".  The place holder token will exist only through the crowd sale, since we cannot create the genesis block until the end of the crowd sale.  Then we kick it all off.  If we are not ready at that point, we will get no money from the token sale until we are in fact ready and can boot the protocol.  Then when the protocol kicks off, all the tokens are real.

I hope that helps.

That helps a lot. I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

[kjn311]

Millions of entries for only .001? Why would this be worth anything? I'm not seeing an incentive to be a federated server nor invest in crowd sale except for the fact it's "cool" technology.

[YESConnie]

There will be more details on this just ahead of the launch.

I would like to know how many Factoids you plan to distribute in the presale? What will be the value? What is the Market Cap you are aiming for?

[kjn311]

Let's say 10min passed an a total of 1 million entries needed to be processed into one hash. The entries are split between 9 federated servers at .001. Each federated server would make just over $100. Yet then that is further split between the backup federated servers? Correct? That would be good but Factom doesn't work like that.

What has been said, it could cost only .001 for bulk entries. How is that enough incentive to run a federated server? I must be thinking about this wrong. Can someone elaborate?

From what I gather a federated server could make about $60 if 1 million ppl submitted a bulk entry if price is .001 per bulk entry.

[CreationLayer]

How different is Factom compared to a website like http://www.proofofexistence.com/?

Factom is different in a number of ways.  PoE hashes single files and records the hash into the Bitcoin Blockchain.  You could log many files if you wanted to, and only reveal the files you wish at a later date.  

PoE only hashes a single digital thing per Bitcoin transaction.  Factom combines many entries together and places a single hash into the Blockchain every 10 minutes.  Even if thousands or even millions of entries were placed into Factom, only the fixed entries are placed into Bitcoin.

Factom allows whatever data you like to be hashed and secured.  So the data entered and maintained by the Factom network is more flexible.

Factom is way cheaper. PoE charges 5 mBTC to log an entry (~$1.46 at the moment).  Factom would cost roughly ~$0.001 to record an entry.  That's because everyone using the system is "sharing" the Bitcoin entry.

Proof-of-existence charges $1.50 because he can, and he maintains a servers with a database of all the hashes he created.  But, anyone can do the same thing on their own and put a document hash on the blockchain for less than $0.05 -  with a small script like this.

Aren't you afraid that if the cost per entry is too low, spam will increase?

  

Factom combines hashes off chain, and submits a merkle sum tree, so that all hashes can be verified to avoid spamming the blockchain, as at scale which is the hope it would result in huge amounts of data on the chain.

Factom uses federated servers, and incentives to operate to maintain a system as independent as possible. Any other script at scale will cause massive blowback from developers, because of perceived spam. We saw with satoshidice how the limit for dust transactions was upped to reduce their use of the blockchain in their desired way. While it's not an instant result, I would classify what factom is trying to do as the most courteous solution, and scalable, where huge amounts of hashes can be processed off chain, and only one merkle tree is needed per block.

[cbeast]

How different is Factom compared to a website like http://www.proofofexistence.com/?

Factom is different in a number of ways.  PoE hashes single files and records the hash into the Bitcoin Blockchain.  You could log many files if you wanted to, and only reveal the files you wish at a later date.  

PoE only hashes a single digital thing per Bitcoin transaction.  Factom combines many entries together and places a single hash into the Blockchain every 10 minutes.  Even if thousands or even millions of entries were placed into Factom, only the fixed entries are placed into Bitcoin.

Factom allows whatever data you like to be hashed and secured.  So the data entered and maintained by the Factom network is more flexible.

Factom is way cheaper. PoE charges 5 mBTC to log an entry (~$1.46 at the moment).  Factom would cost roughly ~$0.001 to record an entry.  That's because everyone using the system is "sharing" the Bitcoin entry.

Proof-of-existence charges $1.50 because he can, and he maintains a servers with a database of all the hashes he created.  But, anyone can do the same thing on their own and put a document hash on the blockchain for less than $0.05 -  with a small script like this.

Aren't you afraid that if the cost per entry is too low, spam will increase?

  

Factom combines hashes off chain, and submits a merkle sum tree, so that all hashes can be verified to avoid spamming the blockchain, as at scale which is the hope it would result in huge amounts of data on the chain.

Factom uses federated servers, and incentives to operate to maintain a system as independent as possible. Any other script at scale will cause massive blowback from developers, because of perceived spam. We saw with satoshidice how the limit for dust transactions was upped to reduce their use of the blockchain in their desired way. While it's not an instant result, I would classify what factom is trying to do as the most courteous solution, and scalable, where huge amounts of hashes can be processed off chain, and only one merkle tree is needed per block.

Each developer invents nomenclature for their process, but the processes are so similar sometimes it's difficult to see if in fact they are related technologies. Is this process similar to payment channels? In this case perhaps the multisignature transactions are updated with each document filing?

[Nxtblg]

This is why we are partnering with Koinify.

Does that mean Factoids will be a Counterparty asset?

[FACTOM]

This is why we are partnering with Koinify.

Does that mean Factoids will be a Counterparty asset?

Factoids will be used on the Factom Network when live, Counterparty and Omni can integrate with it and make it possible to use the tokens on their platforms too.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

Alright, this project just plain kicks ass.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them

[cbeast]

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them

That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them

That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.

I am not sure how the Factom blockchain achieves consensus... my guess is it will be through Federated servers with a financial stake in the network, ie: Masternodes and these masternodes will be rewarded for hosting a full node through the spending of Factoids and they communicate with each other to ensure consensus among all masternodes on a time interval.  This is purely a guess.

Another guess is those Factom blocks will contain the hashed information, the corresponding Bitcoin block hash, and through the Federated servers and/or P2P clients will host the data...

Yeah, this is still really confusing lol

I look forward to seeing more information next week.

[cbeast]

I'm still not clear why factoids are not considered cryptocurrencies and why bitcoins or off-chain Bitcoin contracts cannot be used instead.

Reading through the white-paper cleared up a lot of questions I had.

Basically, the Bitcoin blockchain simply can't handle very large data entries - so the Factom P2P network and blockchain handles larger entries which are then hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain.  So, Factom is a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  The two chains become intertwined which strengthens both of them. Factoids are tokens that are spent in the process of entering information into Factom.  They serve as anti-spam and they also serve as a way to reward the federated servers.

Factom can operate on top of any blockchain - but they have chosen to use the Bitcoin blockchain.  Kudos to them

That sounds nearly identical to the Bitcoin Lightning Network. They plan to use a hub and spoke model with serial multisig contract micropayments. It would only add one step to hash your data through static IPs. Howeverer, the FACTOM white paper doesn't discuss how the Factom blockchain will achieve consensus. Bitcoin contracts would require an open payment channel. consisting of counterparty (not xcp) deposits.

The information about FACTOM is unclear at the moment. I'm no longer skeptical of its veracity. Execution has been Bitcoin's historical adversary.

I am not sure how the Factom blockchain achieves consensus... my guess is it will be through Federated servers with a financial stake in the network, ie: Masternodes and these masternodes will be rewarded for hosting a full node through the spending of Factoids and they communicate with each other to ensure consensus among all masternodes on a time interval.  This is purely a guess.

Another guess is those Factom blocks will contain the hashed information, the corresponding Bitcoin block hash, and through the Federated servers and/or P2P clients will host the data...

Yeah, this is still really confusing lol

I look forward to seeing more information next week.

Using Proof of Stake will end up with Masternode stakeholders owning a lot of beach front property.
Edit: Proof of Stake will allow large Factoid holders to vote on the conversion rate. They will make it prohibitively expensive to buy entry credits. Wealthy attackers can create counterfeit entries and cause genuine entries to be ignored by consensus. In other words, Proof of Stake is not a good consensus, especially for property. Wealthy factoid holders will collude to attack record systems of valuable real estate. This has already been done in countries that have gone to computerized real estate bookkeeping. It would be better to not avoid Bitcoin's consensus approach. Proof of Work offers stronger protection from such attacks.

[FACTOM]

We are pleased to announce a collaboration between Vaultoro + Factom.
Read the details on our blog.
We have hosted a Hangout with the founders of both teams which you can watch below.

[coinking]

We are pleased to announce a collaboration between Vaultoro + Factom.
Read the details on our blog.
We have hosted a Hangout with the founders of both teams which you can watch below.

Good news!