Mining Asics Technologies Question?

[FinalHash]

Jimmothy.

Good links for sure...

However may i refer you here.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=565415.0

This is well after the FPGA prototype had been finished.  Which means that alcheminer white labeled the MAT gear.  This is a VERY VERY common practice in tech period.

http://www.topbitcoinmininghardware.com/war-machine-gaw-miners/

We all know that is a zues miner right?

Another thing to keep in mind.  Other companies do tape outs...

Let me give you an example...
Remember this thing?  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-28nm-asic/
This was done by a company called Innosilicon.  I have visited Innosilicon in china personally.  And the owners are now good friends of mine.  However, Innosilicon also made their own chip... called the A1.  In fact it is the same chip. Also, they made something called a2.  Which is a beast mode scrypt miner.  But regardless who cares. 

So my question to you is how does this matter in anyway?  Regardless on who made the chipset.  I am looking at this purely from an objective standpoint.  Does it matter who is using whose stuff?  I mean if innosilicon would give me free chips and let me laser over it and put my face on it i would.  Because let's be honest... a chip with my face on it would be BITCHIN!... lol

[jimmothy]

Jimmothy.

Good links for sure...

However may i refer you here.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=565415.0

This is well after the FPGA prototype had been finished.  Which means that alcheminer white labeled the MAT gear.  This is a VERY VERY common practice in tech period.

http://www.topbitcoinmininghardware.com/war-machine-gaw-miners/

We all know that is a zues miner right?

Another thing to keep in mind.  Other companies do tape outs...

Let me give you an example...
Remember this thing?  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-28nm-asic/
This was done by a company called Innosilicon.  I have visited Innosilicon in china personally.  And the owners are now good friends of mine.  However, Innosilicon also made their own chip... called the A1.  In fact it is the same chip. Also, they made something called a2.  Which is a beast mode scrypt miner.  But regardless who cares. 

So my question to you is how does this matter in anyway?  Regardless on who made the chipset.  I am looking at this purely from an objective standpoint.  Does it matter who is using whose stuff?  I mean if innosilicon would give me free chips and let me laser over it and put my face on it i would.  Because let's be honest... a chip with my face on it would be BITCHIN!... lol

It really does matter because both companies are claiming to have designed/manufactured the hardware.

As I'm sure you know, it takes millions of dollars to design and manufacture 28nm hardware (alcheminer says $4million). You can't just pretend to have that much skin in the game and take preorders based on the illusion that you need it for NRE/production costs.

The coincraft case is special because Bitmine did actually commission innosilicon to make their chip, they just didn't have an exclusivity agreement which screwed them over.

Companies are free to rebrand/resell hardware as long as they are honest about it.

From the looks of it, MAT charged/is still charging way more than what alcheminer is charging so they could basically just dropship the hardware for a massive profit.

[Biffa]

Jimmothy.

Good links for sure...

However may i refer you here.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=565415.0

This is well after the FPGA prototype had been finished.  Which means that alcheminer white labeled the MAT gear.  This is a VERY VERY common practice in tech period.

http://www.topbitcoinmininghardware.com/war-machine-gaw-miners/

We all know that is a zues miner right?

Another thing to keep in mind.  Other companies do tape outs...

Let me give you an example...
Remember this thing?  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-28nm-asic/
This was done by a company called Innosilicon.  I have visited Innosilicon in china personally.  And the owners are now good friends of mine.  However, Innosilicon also made their own chip... called the A1.  In fact it is the same chip. Also, they made something called a2.  Which is a beast mode scrypt miner.  But regardless who cares. 

So my question to you is how does this matter in anyway?  Regardless on who made the chipset.  I am looking at this purely from an objective standpoint.  Does it matter who is using whose stuff?  I mean if innosilicon would give me free chips and let me laser over it and put my face on it i would.  Because let's be honest... a chip with my face on it would be BITCHIN!... lol

Sorry "bud" but the more you type, the more you really come across as not having a clue. All you are doing is spouting off bits and pieces of non-technical hearsay you have picked up listening to others.

If you are so buddy buddy with Innosilicon you would know that they were contracted to make the A1 for Bitmine and had a non-compete agreement for a specific amount of time. Unfortunately Bitmine were so monumentally incompetent and building a working miner around the chip (I mean months!) that the clock ran out on the non-compete agreement and Innosilicon were free to sell their own and to OEMs. Go check the Bitmine thread if you want to see a bunch of unhappy customers.

It matters because MAT set themselves up to be making their own chips, priced their products accordingly, set an unrealistic, aggressive schedule knowing full well they wouldn't be able to keep it, then tried to resell someone elses products as their own.

MAT is no better than AMT in my books. Just a reseller of other peoples tech who took loads of overpriced pre-orders and didn't deliver citing production issues for a non-existent production line. Horrendous communications with customers, shill accounts, lies and deception.

What he should have done is just been straight from the start, told people he was just going to screenprint his logo on other peoples hardware, but its hard to run the sort of scam that he has run and get the pre-order cash in his pocket that he has without pretending to be a chip manufacturer and developer rather than just a box shifter of OEM systems.

Thats how its played out in these threads, and that's why people are rightly pissed off. Too many customers have been ripped off by these "ASIC" sellers. Most of us understand the difficulties in starting your own business and sympathise with an actual manufacturer having tape-out issues or pcb redesigns, but even then people have their limits, hence the lawsuits and federal investigations around Bitmine, BFL, Hashfast, KnC etc. So when someone comes along pretending to be of that level of production but really isn't then it makes it even worse.

[greek_hephaestus]

Excalibur 4 250Mh/s cost 7.499 on July 08,2014. MAT ship on November 2014 a Miner of cost 3.099 !!! (A 4.400 USD Dif.).
Probably MAT buys rebranded Alchemist at 3.099-20%=2.479USD (which had already sold) and sent to customers (if indeed sent them)!!!

[MAT_SCAM]

The Alcheminer-Mining Asics Technolgies Hardware Game in greater detail:

MAT agreed with alcheminer to a joint production venture with the figure something around 2M $ for the development. It was a shared deal 50% - 50%. But MAT does not have any rights to the IP (asic chip design). The 2M$ included 50K Asic Chips with own MAT Logo - that's why the alcheminer chip and MAT chip are identical. The chip is the same as the Alcheminer Chip! With 50K Chips you can make 195 miners, each with 256 asics inside, but of course still there are additional costs for the whole miner manufacturing, case, boards, software, controller board... of about over 800$ each.

But now the latest news:
MAT doesn't even have the 2M$, so MAT received around the end of September only 10K chips. Nothing more - because all money from preorders was invested only in the development of the asics, not in the miners itself.

Now after the GAW miner deal, MAT had some money to pay for the last 40K asics and to the manufacturer of the miners. Thats why MAT still doesn't have miners... because MAT shipped all miners to GAW (Marshall Long of FinalHash as commission for the GAW deal), another cloudmining company, and 3 or 4 customers.
To ship or make refunds for all customers MAT needs to raise more than 1,3M$. But the margins of selling the miners now are too low to make a profit of 1,3M$.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/352627768251593/

[greek_hephaestus]

Original post from Renton Bonaventura https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006321996927&fref=nf
https://www.facebook.com/groups/352627768251593/permalink/352752534905783/
The Alcheminer-MAT Game in greater detail:
 MAT agreed with alcheminer to a joint production venture with the figure something around 2M $ for the development. It was a shared deal 50% - 50%. But MAT does not have any rights in the IP (asic chip design). For the 2M $ there are included 50K Asic Chips with own MAT Logo - that's why the alcheminer chip and MAT chip are identical. The chip is the same as the Alcheminer Chip! With 50K Chips you can make 195 miners, each with 256 asics inside, but of course still there are additional costs for the whole miner manufacturing, case, boards, software, controller board... of about over 800$ each.

But now the latest news:
 MAT doesn't even have the 2M$, so MAT received around the end of September only 10K chips. Nothing more - because all money from preorders was invested only in the development of the asics, not in the miners itself.

Now after the GAW miner deal, MAT had some money to pay for the last 40K asics and to the manufacturer of the miners. Thats why MAT still doesn't have miners... because MAT shipped all miners to GAW (Marshall Long as commission for the GAW deal), another cloudmining company, and 3 or 4 customers.

 To ship or make refunds for all customers MAT needs to raise more than 1,3M$. But the margins of selling the miners now are too low to make a profit of 1,3M$.

[FinalHash]

Jimmothy.

Good links for sure...

However may i refer you here.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=565415.0

This is well after the FPGA prototype had been finished.  Which means that alcheminer white labeled the MAT gear.  This is a VERY VERY common practice in tech period.

http://www.topbitcoinmininghardware.com/war-machine-gaw-miners/

We all know that is a zues miner right?

Another thing to keep in mind.  Other companies do tape outs...

Let me give you an example...
Remember this thing?  http://bitmine.ch/coincraft-28nm-asic/
This was done by a company called Innosilicon.  I have visited Innosilicon in china personally.  And the owners are now good friends of mine.  However, Innosilicon also made their own chip... called the A1.  In fact it is the same chip. Also, they made something called a2.  Which is a beast mode scrypt miner.  But regardless who cares. 

So my question to you is how does this matter in anyway?  Regardless on who made the chipset.  I am looking at this purely from an objective standpoint.  Does it matter who is using whose stuff?  I mean if innosilicon would give me free chips and let me laser over it and put my face on it i would.  Because let's be honest... a chip with my face on it would be BITCHIN!... lol

Sorry "bud" but the more you type, the more you really come across as not having a clue. All you are doing is spouting off bits and pieces of non-technical hearsay you have picked up listening to others.

If you are so buddy buddy with Innosilicon you would know that they were contracted to make the A1 for Bitmine and had a non-compete agreement for a specific amount of time. Unfortunately Bitmine were so monumentally incompetent and building a working miner around the chip (I mean months!) that the clock ran out on the non-compete agreement and Innosilicon were free to sell their own and to OEMs. Go check the Bitmine thread if you want to see a bunch of unhappy customers.

It matters because MAT set themselves up to be making their own chips, priced their products accordingly, set an unrealistic, aggressive schedule knowing full well they wouldn't be able to keep it, then tried to resell someone elses products as their own.

MAT is no better than AMT in my books. Just a reseller of other peoples tech who took loads of overpriced pre-orders and didn't deliver citing production issues for a non-existent production line. Horrendous communications with customers, shill accounts, lies and deception.

What he should have done is just been straight from the start, told people he was just going to screenprint his logo on other peoples hardware, but its hard to run the sort of scam that he has run and get the pre-order cash in his pocket that he has without pretending to be a chip manufacturer and developer rather than just a box shifter of OEM systems.

Thats how its played out in these threads, and that's why people are rightly pissed off. Too many customers have been ripped off by these "ASIC" sellers. Most of us understand the difficulties in starting your own business and sympathise with an actual manufacturer having tape-out issues or pcb redesigns, but even then people have their limits, hence the lawsuits and federal investigations around Bitmine, BFL, Hashfast, KnC etc. So when someone comes along pretending to be of that level of production but really isn't then it makes it even worse.

Biffa,

All good points bud. As far as the bitmine stuff you are right... the other reality of that deal was that they ran out of money.  Also, a tapeout of this chip is not $4M... that is propstorous.  Usually it hovers around $3M. However, idk those guys at all as i have said. So who knows.

At any rate.  Disregarding the regurgitation from facebook, you are right. People DO have a right to be pissed off. However, folks knew what they go into also.  Hardware is hard.  However, i do not see folks pissing all over everything about alcheminer.  Although ive not been on bitcointalk all that much. If i am wrong here some links for my own education would be welcomed for sure.

Going forward, i know many people have received their machines. Many of my customers have them. MANY MANY.  And as far as shipping from china, idk how that would work because the ones that i received were shipped from amsterdam so not sure there. 

I will be going to the lab today to do some final numbers on hashrate and power numbers.

[MAT_SCAM]

Final Fantasy. I mean Final Hashish. I mean FinalHash. Where are your many many customers with mat machines? It's amazing only 3 people have come forward over 3 weeks. All of them hucksters along with mat. Are you a huckster too? Did you broker a deal for MAT to sell miners to GAW - paid for 5-7 months ago by MAT customers still without miners? Do you know Alex? Maybe you want to comment on brokering a criminal deal? Being complicit in a double-sale of miners prepaid 100% by customers? That's some serious fraud right there committed by MAT that you benefited from. So you come on here and keep up the b.s. so you can broker another deal for MAT?

on: Alex Huynh [mailto:_______@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. August 2014 13:04
An: MA Technologies
Betreff: Re: Largest miner distributor in USA - www.gawminers.com

Hi,

Sorry it's been a while. We have been very busy. We are now the biggest mining equipment seller in the USA.

I would like to know when is eta for delivery of your miners. We are interested in reselling your equipment. With our brand and trust from customers we can push large volumes of your miners. Provided they ship on time.

Please give me some indication of volume discount. Say we buy from 20 - 100 units.

Let me know asap, thanks.

Alex
--------

Von: Alex Huynh [mailto:________@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2014 16:52
An: sales@mining-asics-technologies.com
Betreff: Largest miner distributor in USA - www.gawminers.com


Hi,

Let me introduce myself, I am Alex, and I am a co-founcer of www.gawminers.com.

We are the biggest reseller of mining equipment in the USA and growing by the day. Check out our alexa ranking:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/gawminers.com

We have over 5,000 visits a day and do over $1m in sales a week.

We would like to be an exclusive reseller of your products in North and South America.

Please get back to me asap and let me know how we can work together. Then we can immediately put your miners up for sale on our website and give you greater exposure for your product.

Alex

[FinalHash]

Ummm. who the hell is Alex?

IDK an alex at GAW.  Although the CEO of GAW Josh is a personal friend of mine...

Bjorn... can we please just dispense with the pandamonium... what do you want from MAT dude? Its over... just calm down man... damn...

[jimmothy]

At any rate.  Disregarding the regurgitation from facebook, you are right. People DO have a right to be pissed off. However, folks knew what they go into also.  Hardware is hard.  However, i do not see folks pissing all over everything about alcheminer.  Although ive not been on bitcointalk all that much. If i am wrong here some links for my own education would be welcomed for sure.

Can you honestly say they knew what they got in to?

I am positive that given the chance, anyone/everyone would have ordered their hardware from alcheminer considering they've been selling their hardware from stock for half the $/MH of a MAT preorder for around a month now.

IDK an alex at GAW.  Although the CEO of GAW Josh is a personal friend of mine...

Care to shed some light on this deal you made selling MAT miners to GAW?

Since Josh is a personal friend of yours, are you aware that GAW is almost certainly running a fractional reserve for cloudmining?

[MAT_SCAM]

This is Marshall Long. The great bearded gnome. He probably has no comment on brokering an incredibly fraudulent deal and benefiting with miner(s) and money, but he's happy to admit he runs one of the biggest "asic hardware consulting firm in the world" and is good friends with the CEO of GAW who paid his "company" to consult on the quality of MAT asics before they buy a large quantity wholesale batch - known to customers that paid for them as 'batch 1' and developed 100% with prepaid customer money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzC41q21xcY

[suchmoon]

So this is GAW's elusive Vaultbreaker? A bit short on promised specs isn't it?

[FinalHash]

This is Marshall Long. The great bearded gnome. He probably has no comment on brokering an incredibly fraudulent deal and benefiting with miner(s) and money, but he's happy to admit he runs one of the biggest "asic hardware consulting firm in the world" and is good friends with the CEO of GAW who paid his "company" to consult on the quality of MAT asics before they buy a large quantity wholesale batch - known to customers that paid for them as 'batch 1' and developed 100% with prepaid customer money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzC41q21xcY

Bjorn haha i like that man... The Great bearded gnome.... HAHAHAHA... i might actually start going by that... great nickname... And i like it

[FinalHash]

At any rate.  Disregarding the regurgitation from facebook, you are right. People DO have a right to be pissed off. However, folks knew what they go into also.  Hardware is hard.  However, i do not see folks pissing all over everything about alcheminer.  Although ive not been on bitcointalk all that much. If i am wrong here some links for my own education would be welcomed for sure.

Can you honestly say they knew what they got in to?

I am positive that given the chance, anyone/everyone would have ordered their hardware from alcheminer considering they've been selling their hardware from stock for half the $/MH of a MAT preorder for around a month now.

IDK an alex at GAW.  Although the CEO of GAW Josh is a personal friend of mine...

Care to shed some light on this deal you made selling MAT miners to GAW?

Since Josh is a personal friend of yours, are you aware that GAW is almost certainly running a fractional reserve for cloudmining?

Jimmothy,

Great questions once again.

as i said idk much about the alcheminer crew tbh bud.  I have heard their name but never took the time to check them out.  But if somebody says, "Hey i will give you hardware for half price" anyone would be an idiot not to say yes right?  Not sure if that is the case here but if you said, hey i will sell you spondoolies hardware for half price... um where do i sign... lol

Now on this elusive GAW deal... not really sure what the deal is with that. Josh and I just really fuck around on skype and phone calls so not too keen on what he buys or not.  But if he asks me who has good hardware i point him in the right place. That is really it.

[jimmothy]

Now on this elusive GAW deal... not really sure what the deal is with that. Josh and I just really fuck around on skype and phone calls so not too keen on what he buys or not.  But if he asks me who has good hardware i point him in the right place. That is really it.

TBH, I'm sort of baffled that a "professional" would recommend preordering hardware from MAT.

Just to clarify, you did not make any commission correct?

[FinalHash]

jesus christ... you guys like to waste my time....

Read above... did i say anything about pre ordering ANYTHING?

Fuck no... i would never recommend pre ordering... EVER...

too many trolls in here tonight HAHAHAHA

[MOB]

Ummm. who the hell is Alex?

IDK an alex at GAW.  Although the CEO of GAW Josh is a personal friend of mine...

Bjorn... can we please just dispense with the pandamonium... what do you want from MAT dude? Its over... just calm down man... damn...

Ask and ye shall receive.

Alex Huynh aka atari02 on Bitcointalk

alex.huynh38@gmail.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=503928.400

As you can see, he appears to close doors with his own reseller business and join GAW's ranks in May 2014.

[I_IZ_CEO]

Ummm. who the hell is Alex?

IDK an alex at GAW.  Although the CEO of GAW Josh is a personal friend of mine...

Bjorn... can we please just dispense with the pandamonium... what do you want from MAT dude? Its over... just calm down man... damn...

Ask and ye shall receive.

Alex Huynh aka atari02 on Bitcointalk

alex.huynh38@gmail.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=503928.400

As you can see, he appears to close doors with his own reseller business and join GAW's ranks in May 2014.

MOB is like a private investigator, keep exposing this piece of turd, he's asking for it. Definitely a friend of Josh's...

[bitgeek]

MOB is like a private investigator, keep exposing this piece of turd, he's asking for it. Definitely a friend of Josh's...

Said an exposed sockpuppet. All you can do is cowardly throw insults from a fake account.

[MAT_SCAM]

jesus christ... you guys like to waste my time....

Read above... did i say anything about pre ordering ANYTHING?

Fuck no... i would never recommend pre ordering... EVER...

too many trolls in here tonight HAHAHAHA

No trolls here Marshall. Just people who want the truth to come out after so many lies, scams and false promises.

You have yet to deny your role and benefits in brokering a fraudulent deal between MAT and GAW.
If you are personal friends with Josh, then you know Alex.

Bjorn is not here. He would not use the description "bearded gnome" for you. We are glad you enjoyed it.

The latest news on MAT's website is that they are not taking any more orders. A victory resulting from efforts of
40 MAT customers, police and dutch consumer authorities. When you press for the truth, good things happen.

Care to tell the truth of your role in that deal between MAT and GAW Marshall aka FinalHash?