Total Coins - Nov 15th 2014

[Spoetnik]

@Videlicet
I AGREE big time And i liked your frying pan analogy

I also want to add that Pump Groups like the type Bobsurplus runs need to go..
they too are damaging in the same respect to the scene and newcomers.

these scammy groups pump their coins on chat boxes etc feeding lies about grand plans and big futures to noobs..
only to dump on them later hard so the noobs take a loss and Bobsurplus and friends can buy more Rolex watches and fancy sports cars like Mercedes Benz's
and then they brag about it on Twitter etc.. while 90% of us LOSE money !

..while making the scene look more and more scammy pushing the outward impression these are all just Pyramid schemes to outsiders.

[gjhiggins]

Thing a lot of people fail to realize, is that more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in by some of the actions many people are taking.

Are you in a position to provide some actual evidence for this assertion?


Cheers

Graham

[Spoetnik]

Thing a lot of people fail to realize, is that more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in by some of the actions many people are taking.

Are you in a position to provide some actual evidence for this assertion?


Cheers

Graham

I have a for a year endlessly where have you been ?

it's called common sense guy LOL
and you challenge common sense ? really ? wow you got some nerve or you have been living in a hole in the ground..

dumb or deceitful is all you will find here buddy i suggest getting on Google and finding out what REAL people think.
When Bitcoin itself was just starting out it was branded across the Globe as a Ponzi scheme
so imagine what all those same people will think of actual Altcoin Ponzi schemes ROFL

have at 'er
keep playing dumb with the last 9 guys left in Altcoins  


Yours FUD'ingly

Spoetnik

[gjhiggins]

Thing a lot of people fail to realize, is that more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in by some of the actions many people are taking.

Are you in a position to provide some actual evidence for this assertion?

I have a for a year endlessly where have you been ?

If you'll take a moment to actually read my post, you'll see that the question wasn't asked of you but of Videlicet.

But if you yourself have actual evidence that “more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in”, then I'd be interested in seeing it.

Otherwise, without at least minimal evidential support of a negative public opinion, the statement can never be anything other than supposition.

Cheers

Graham

[TheTribesman]

Thing a lot of people fail to realize, is that more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in by some of the actions many people are taking.

Are you in a position to provide some actual evidence for this assertion?

I have a for a year endlessly where have you been ?

If you'll take a moment to actually read my post, you'll see that the question wasn't asked of you but of Videlicet.

But if you yourself have actual evidence that “more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in”, then I'd be interested in seeing it.

Otherwise, without at least minimal evidential support of a negative public opinion, the statement can never be anything other than supposition.

Cheers

Graham

It's a supposition but lots of people (me included) agree 100% with that statement. Can you provide evidence to the contrary? I think this reply is some form of evidential support?

Easy evidence

Total market cap of all coins 01/2014 = >$8bn
Total market cap of all coins 11/2014 = <$6bn

There's been a $2bn decline in the total investment in the market since 01/2014

[Spoetnik]

Thing a lot of people fail to realize, is that more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in by some of the actions many people are taking.

Are you in a position to provide some actual evidence for this assertion?

I have a for a year endlessly where have you been ?

If you'll take a moment to actually read my post, you'll see that the question wasn't asked of you but of Videlicet.

But if you yourself have actual evidence that “more [clone] coins further promotes the negative public opinion of Crypto as a "Ponzi Scheme". It keeps new investors from dipping their toes in”, then I'd be interested in seeing it.

Otherwise, without at least minimal evidential support of a negative public opinion, the statement can never be anything other than supposition.

Cheers

Graham

It's a supposition but lots of people (me included) agree 100% with that statement. Can you provide evidence to the contrary? I think this reply is some form of evidential support?

Easy evidence

Total market cap of all coins 01/2014 = >$8bn
Total market cap of all coins 11/2014 = <$6bn

There's been a $2bn decline in the total investment in the market since 01/2014

factor in that is with MORE coins made too.. i seen guys post lists around that had more than 1,000 coins one year ago.
and does coinmarketcap list them all ?

and where did everyone go ?
there was more guys arguing with me about how great Doge coin was in My "Why Doge Coin is Bad" topic than there is left on the forum right now.
there has been a mass exodus of guys leaving and the volumes and sinking prices non stop for a year are proof.

Where did these guys go ?
LaudaM, Koontas, Magnet, BitcoinExpress, Zack, TECHSHARE, r3wt......
the list goes on and on of regulars around here that are Looooong gone.

and all i see now is bag holders loitering around still trying make and push new schemes while living in denial lying to themselves (or being dishonest)
they do not want to confront the possibility that the scene is dying and fast !
they feel it threatens what money they have tied up in this stuff right now maybe ?
Little do they realize the denial will actually cause their investment to become worth less and less with more denial..
denying there is no problem and saying it's going great is saying.. i will not fix any problems.. no problems need fixing.
and they are wrong.. as more and more guys quietly wander off.

The ONLY solution is to collectively admit there is a problem, only then can a solution be worked on.

And i am done arguing with people in denial as they call me a FUD'ing Troll.. screw 'em then i'm out.. drown in your stupidity.

What is happening ?
Another excuse / gimmick is made up so another coin can be posted new all over again..
This -is- what is happening !
Why does not matter or how.
Average users will see this perspective and think.. hmm.. why do i want to invest in XYZ coin that came out today when a new one comes out tomorrow ?
And are these guys going to stop ? of course not.. they are greedy.

This stuff is doomed.. if guys can make money from pumping out more coins soft-clones, misc forks or what ever they will.. because it buys them Rolex's and Benz's
And they will not stop until there is no money left (or regulation gets rid of them)
So Mr. Rolex will not be admitting there is any type of problem that needs fixing any time soon LOL
and they don't care if it make the previous 2,000 coins worthless as long as the shit coin they are pushing right now is making them Bitcoin to Fiat profits $$$
And as long as the scammy "enablers' keep hanging around for the scraps like vultures they will keep doing it.

There is no magical huge crowd of people coming.. they came already and left.
Why did they leave ? It was not because Spoetnik FUD'd some shit coin.. they left because they couldn't make a buck anymore !
Guys were more than happy to hang around here and argue with me about Doge coin and then left like i said they would to the exact day when profitability dried up !
I called it and posted a picture of the charts on Cryptsy for Doge coin and said it is now on par with other coins profitability wise
and i said the community greedy crowd will now disintegrate faster and faster.. and that is exactly what happened !
I called it to the exact day LOL

Proof = Re: Why Doge coin is bad
i posted that, April 06, 2014, 12:28:25 PM

Hey guys.. i said it before and and look at the graph i predicted it right on the money so..
I told you so Smiley

I said before that mining profitability had reached parity with numerous other coins and now the main advantage / benefit of Doge coin is GONE !
..and that all the so called supporters in the community will dry up and vanish and disolve into nothing. so far that is exactly what has happened !

[gjhiggins]

There's been a $2bn decline in the total investment in the market since 01/2014

I'm perfectly happy to accept that as a fact. But it provides no support for a supposition that this decline is a result of negative public opinion engendered by increasing numbers of altcoins.

lots of people (me included) agree 100% with that statement

Your declaration of personal agreement is uncontentious but, unless you've effected a (reliable) poll, you're on shaky ground about the “lots”.

Whenever the proponent of an agenda drapes it in the flag of “public opinion”, I always look very carefully at the statistics that are claimed to support the argument.

Cheers

Graham

[Spoetnik]

there is not going to be a smoking gun laying on the floor and you know that with your rigged question (demand for statiscal proof)
stats have not been collected so move along now LOL

If there is no hard stats ? you have to get info and build a case and i have made it a hobby of mine to monitor public opinion across the globe
on NON crypto related web sites.. have you gjhiggins ?

i have made the same statements endlessly and backed them up far too many times to have to keep repeating the obvious.. it really does get old.

if you want to sit here and say your not arguing with the outcome NOW and then carry on arguing about proof of what caused it then go ahead..
i'm leaving good luck with that LOL

[gjhiggins]

stats have not been collected so move along now

Sure thing.


Cheers

Graham

[Videlicet]

Graham,

My information comes from carefully coordinated questioning [face to face] of the everyday person young to old over the past years. Part of my purpose here is to also help bring in outside investors, and with Scams / Clones and Black Markets surrounding Crypto, a lot of people are not confident in the idea of Crypto Currencies as sustainable monetary tools; but more of games and schemes. Any man of reasonable intelligence can observe this just by putting aside his bias, and really looking into what people are saying.

The Altcoin Industry has already started coming together to work on this pandemonium, I say there is no harm in working together towards a brighter future.
It sure beats Coin Gen, and Alt-Coin Foundries [Remember your Minkiz?] which only serve its cloner, not the industry as a whole. I'd assume since your site is down now that your Alt-Coin Foundry wasn't successful? Isn't that a decent enough perspective to show you what people want, and what they don't want?

Let's think about more than ourselves here,
Viz.

[Spoetnik]

@Videlicet
TRUE !

I recently tried to give some Bitcoin to family members and they said NO "i don't trust that bitcoin stuff" you keep it !

A year ago or longer they did take it and trusted it.. times changed and for the worse.. way worse !

Time to wake the god damn flying fuck up guys.. cut the fucking crap already and quit playing dumb and making bad excuses for bad behavior

bear in mind you will be dealing with the same consequences regardless of your acting like nothing is wrong LOL
it changes nothing.. vs. admitting shit is fucked up and need to be fixed !

Nothing will get better until we say yes this system is broken and needs repair.

edit:
Bitcoiner's not involved in Altcoin stuff need to wake up and see this Altcoin stuff is taking a fat shit all over your Bitcoin's value !
I think at least part of the reason Bitcoin's value is as low as it is.. is because of the sleazy scummy Altcoin shenanigans.

[gjhiggins]

My information comes from carefully coordinated questioning [face to face] of the everyday person young to old over the past years.

Well that's not even a random sample, let alone “public opinion”.

[Remember your Minkiz?] which only serve its cloner, not the industry as a whole. I'd assume since your site is down now that your Alt-Coin Foundry wasn't successful? Isn't that a decent enough perspective to show you what people want, and what they don't want?

Lol, Minkiz is a piece of internet art, it even has a title (lower right): ”Minkiz” by Higgins and Macfarlane. It's still in development and we've not yet articulated our thesis. The Foundry is an ironic presentation of the variety of hash algos and it's a particular whimsy of mine to develop the notion further as a means of characterising the population of parameter variants, possibly into sectors. If I can manage to get any recognisable results, I'll be publishing them using semantic web technology as part of the DOACC effort.

Let's think about more than ourselves here,

I do find it difficult to reconcile this feelgood exhortation with the muscular tone adopted in the CoinShield ANN “Not only will Coinshield help you get your money back, it will be your tool to declare that coin scam/clone coin, and effectively destroy it.” I dare say you are genuinely positioning CoinShield as remedial device but any positive message is being completely drowned by the aggressive posture.

Cheers

Graham

[Videlicet]

Graham,

You can lie to the public, trying to hide the facts; but you can't lie to yourself. I'm just happy to know it was unsuccessful; I've never seen someone as proud of 1500+ coins as you.

Don't forget your neatly built web form that allowed you to custom order any "template milled" coins, "built from the Bitcoin 0.9.x core".
I don't see what could bring you to believe otherwise, and what story you must convince yourself of that you are helping the industry with such services.


Look what I found: https://minkiz.co/

The Foundry is an ironic presentation of the variety of hash algos

Looks like you offer Top Quality Clones. Even have options to buy? Seems contrary to what you just said, doesn't it?


Can we ever expect these Dev's to be able to maintain the coin in which they purchased you to create?
This is a precise example of one of the many forces harming the industry as a whole.

Despondently,
Viz.


edit: added supporting evidence

[gjhiggins]

Don't forget your neatly built web form that allowed you to custom order any "template milled" coins, "built from the Bitcoin 0.9.x core".
I don't see what could bring you to believe otherwise, and what story you must convince yourself of that you are helping the industry with such services.

Alas, you really have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick (have you not read my sig?).

It's purely an exercise in representation, the web forms are a(n albeit preliminary) rendering of the parameter profile of a coin, the “personality”, if you like. When a coin's personality profile is applied to the template, the coin is re-created, genesisblock, nonce and all. It's a replicator, with the recipe expressed using terms defined in an OWL ontology, an extension of Melvin Carvalho's blockchain-oriented CC ontology. Ultimately, I hope to be able to describe an arbitrary altcoin formally in RDF at a level of detail that affords the creation of a near-identical coin from the representation. Okay, it'll be missing a bunch of qualitative stuff and the characterisation of block reward schedules remains an unsolved issue but at least it's a start.

Minkiz coins page is a fancypants rendering of the altcoin metadata in the DOACC project. DOACC is a catalogue of altcoins expressed in RDF with an accompanying OWL ontology. You could use Minkiz Linked Open Data explorer https://minkiz.co/lod to browse the catalogue if you like, or you can pose a SPARQL query via the web form interface on https://minkiz.co/sparql

Have you had a go on the Hodlerscope yet? https://minkiz.co/hodlerscope

I take it that you didn't spot the homage to GTA 3's Pay'n'Spray in the “Cash'n'Hash” headline?




Cheers

Graham

[Videlicet]

Graham,

You see what you see, I see what I see.

Regards,
Viz.

[fran2k]

you think i am exaggerating ?

If you've simply multiplied the number of topic pages by 40 then you are risking some degree of overcounting ...

anyone want to do a more accurate check ?

Such as the de facto one embodied in DOACC? https://github.com/DOACC/individuals <- RDF graph, serialized as ntriples.

Web page -> https://minkiz.co/coin/

Linked Open Data -> https://minkiz.co/lod

Perhaps you'd prefer something you could try at home?

Code:

def countann():
    from lxml import etree
    from time import sleep
    import requests
    import json
    xpath_tgt = '//div[@class="tborder"]/table[@class="bordercolor"]/tr'
    baseurl = "https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=159.{}"
    op = []
    for pp in range(0, 5480, 40):
        for tr in etree.HTML(requests.get(baseurl.format(pp)).content).xpath():
            it = ''.join(
                [i.expandtabs(1).replace('\n', '').strip()
                    for i in tr.itertext()])
            if it.startswith('[ANN]'):
                ann = it.split('«')[0].replace('  ', ''
                    ).replace('[ANN]', '[ANN] '
                    ).replace('[ANN]  ', '[ANN] ')
                op.append(ann)
        sleep(5)
    with open('/tmp/anns.json', 'w') as fp:
        fp.write(json.dumps(op, indent=2, separators=(',', ': ')))

random sample drawn from a sorted version of the /tmp/anns.json list:

"[ANN] Virtual Coin | VC | VCoin | Release Mar 16,2014 | Scrypt (Official Thread)",
"[ANN] Virtual Coin | VC | VCoin | Release Mar 16,2014 | Scrypt (Official Thread)",
"[ANN] Virtual Coin | VC | VCoin | Release Mar 16,2014 | Scrypt (Official Thread)",
"[ANN] Virtual Coin | VC | VCoin | Release Mar 16,2014 | Scrypt (Official Thread)",
"[ANN] Virtual Coin| VC | VCoin| Release Mar 15,2014 | Scrypt (Official Thread)",
"[ANN] Virtual Coin|VC|X11| Award about to 2X in less than 1hr,
"[ANN] VirtualCoin [VC] [Scrypt] [Windows Client] [Pool] MARCH 20th, 2014",

By the time you've factored in the overcounting and all the [ANN]s for exchanges, pools, associated websites, pump schemes, dump schemes and anything else that the mods feel isn't too off-topic, you're down to around 1700-1800 or so.

maybe list them all by name ?

like this? -> https://minkiz.co/coin/name/

HAhahha

hat hat, hat.


Cheers

Graham

Wow, great site! Almost 2k altcoins, thats hilarious!

[TheTribesman]

 
No need to get so personal guys!

Proof = Re: Why Doge coin is bad
i posted that, April 06, 2014, 12:28:25 PM

Hey guys.. i said it before and and look at the graph i predicted it right on the money so..
I told you so Smiley

I said before that mining profitability had reached parity with numerous other coins and now the main advantage / benefit of Doge coin is GONE !
..and that all the so called supporters in the community will dry up and vanish and dissolve into nothing. so far that is exactly what has happened !

I agree with the earlier part of your post Spoetnik, but I'm afraid DOGE ain't dead, and I disagree with you that DOGE is bad. People new to cryptos will more likely accept DOGE than BTC. I'm not a DOGE bagholder, and I have minimum BTC, but I can plainly see the facts. It's still in the top ten and has a massive online community outside of bitcointalk (in fact, there's NO community on this site). That can't be denied or brushed aside.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Graham,

You can lie to the public, trying to hide the facts; but you can't lie to yourself. I'm just happy to know it was unsuccessful; I've never seen someone as proud of 1500+ coins as you.

Don't forget your neatly built web form that allowed you to custom order any "template milled" coins, "built from the Bitcoin 0.9.x core".
I don't see what could bring you to believe otherwise, and what story you must convince yourself of that you are helping the industry with such services.


Look what I found: https://minkiz.co/

The Foundry is an ironic presentation of the variety of hash algos

Looks like you offer Top Quality Clones. Even have options to buy? Seems contrary to what you just said, doesn't it?


Can we ever expect these Dev's to be able to maintain the coin in which they purchased you to create?
This is a precise example of one of the many forces harming the industry as a whole.

Despondently,
Viz.


edit: added supporting evidence

Clonecoin vending machines. Wonderful

[Palmdetroit]

I just stick to http://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/ 

Says 567 now , close enough for me.

[gjhiggins]

Clonecoin vending machines. Wonderful

TBH, it's nothing more than a less dry presentation of:

Code:

PREFIX skos: <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#>
PREFIX doacc: <http://purl.org/net/bel-epa/doacc#>

SELECT DISTINCT(?pl as ?pow) WHERE 
{ ?node skos:prefLabel ?label .
  ?node doacc:pow ?p .
  ?p skos:prefLabel ?pl
}

The vending machines might actually function one day, if I ever get round to completing the common-denominator template and releasing it as open source :-) However, as it stands, it's basically a thought experiment --- those who are reasonably well-versed in the domain will be aware that prime constellations are not something that can be switched in/out at will, gatra's implementation has resulted in a unique codebase that renders it effectively infeasible to include in any variant-by-template approach and reminds me that there has been little success in high-level abstract representations of code which leaves us bereft of any formal description of how the code works in this instance, so we're regrettably left with specification by implementation, which is generally considered not to be a Good Thing.

The main aim of the presentation is to list the potential variations obtainable by a straightforward bitcoin PoW swap. Well, it used to be “all” but there's a few more that have been introduced recently that haven't yet been included.

For the terminally curious, the inspiration for the template names comes from this hilarious 90's ad for Snickers:

https://bel-epa.com/area51/library/marsad/snickersweb2-desktop.m4v / https://bel-epa.com/area51/library/marsad/snickersweb.mov

^^^^ coupla trivia points - I'm fairly sure the agent is played by Christopher Ryan, (“Mike” in “The Young Ones”) and on youtube there's a less snappy version made for the US that was never shown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyh2BKk0gWQ

Cheers

Graham