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Author Topic: Bitcoin: Mark of the Beast?  (Read 12578 times)
crazy_rabbit
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June 10, 2012, 05:58:10 PM
 #1

Okay, I'm being humorous with that one, but on a more serious note- what if we were to consider Bitcoin becomes widely successful and adopted worldwide. What if the government would one day see the value in having near infinite addresses for a finite amount of people in the world. What if governments started dolling out addresses to individuals like Social Security numbers and mandated that you use that address for your transactions.

Certainly businesses could be forced to use specific 'assigned' addresses, (it's easy enough to check if they aren't) and then the government can sit back and watch the block chain to asses their tax responsibility.

What if your Bitcoin address were required as a form of identification? We assume that Bitcoin has an element of anonymity because no one knows who owns the addresses, but governments could do a pretty good job of forcing individuals to keep public accounts and then watch closely.

It's anonymous only so long as addresses aren't assigned. If they are assigned though, the blockchain becomes a pretty incredible tool for surveillance of a population. 

The Mark of the Beast is a reference to the outcry from some Christian groups about how Social Security Numbers were the "mark of the beast". http://usa-the-republic.com/mark%20of%20beast/Forward.htm


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June 10, 2012, 06:07:51 PM
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Financial transactions and most other things are already under heavy surveillance anyway. What Bitcoin brings into game is that the ledger becomes public. There is no information asymmetry, no monopoly on surveillance. Anyone is welcome to track my transactions if they think they've got nothing better to do with their life.


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June 10, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
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Financial transactions and most other things are already under heavy surveillance anyway. What Bitcoin brings into game is that the ledger becomes public. There is no information asymmetry, no monopoly on surveillance. Anyone is welcome to track my transactions if they think they've got nothing better to do with their life.



I tend to generally agree, however I know that eventually given enough data points quite specific information about you can be gleaned. It being a public ledger means far more organizations could do it, not just governments. Sure perhaps marketers could use it, but if it became as widely adopted as a social security number, then perhaps that data transparency might not be something we really want (even casually).

I don't think there is anything we can particularly do about it at the moment, other then to keep it in mind. In italy for example, there is no free public wi-fi that doesn't require logging in with out some traceable information (generally a mobile phone account where they send you a confirmation SMS, but all mobile phones require scans of passports to get). It's not a leap to imagine rather a bitcoin address as your login (login and payment at the same time) and then all your data being tagged with your number as well.


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June 10, 2012, 06:20:51 PM
 #4

http://www.notfooledbygovernment.com/


Steven Dudley Miller knows a thing or two about legal rights and the constitution, even if SSN is not the mark of the beast.
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June 10, 2012, 06:29:01 PM
 #5

A friend of mine belongs to a Pentecostal church and is super-fundamentalist.  I recall him telling me this was in Revelations(?) somewhere though I could never find it myself (I'm not religious).

His explanation was similar to OP's where paper cash would be eliminated and you could only transact business if you were marked with a number.  I think he said something about actually being physically marked with the number.

Can someone point the thread to chapter and verse for this?  I'm curious.

I find the mechanics of this biblical prophecy hard to accept since there will always be face-to-face business whether you're marked or not.  After all, business happens when 2 people have something the other needs.  Who needs money at all in situations like that?

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June 10, 2012, 06:31:55 PM
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A friend of mine belongs to a Pentecostal church and is super-fundamentalist.  I recall him telling me this was in Revelations(?) somewhere though I could never find it myself (I'm not religious).

His explanation was similar to OP's where paper cash would be eliminated and you could only transact business if you were marked with a number.  I think he said something about actually being physically marked with the number.

Can someone point the thread to chapter and verse for this?  I'm curious.

I find the mechanics of this biblical prophecy hard to accept since there will always be face-to-face business whether you're marked or not.  After all, business happens when 2 people have something the other needs.  Who needs money at all in situations like that?

Just in case the admins of the Bible deleted what you're looking for, I pretty sure Google has indexed its pages. https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mark+of+the+beast+bible
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June 10, 2012, 06:56:35 PM
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I feel sorry for the guy waiting in line behind the guy with number 665.

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June 10, 2012, 07:04:33 PM
 #8

You can do a lot of stuff with software, including track every penny that everyone spends.  The question is, what will people try to track and what will people tolerate having tracked.

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June 10, 2012, 11:59:12 PM
 #9

A friend of mine belongs to a Pentecostal church and is super-fundamentalist.  I recall him telling me this was in Revelations(?) somewhere though I could never find it myself (I'm not religious).

His explanation was similar to OP's where paper cash would be eliminated and you could only transact business if you were marked with a number.  I think he said something about actually being physically marked with the number.

Can someone point the thread to chapter and verse for this?  I'm curious.

I find the mechanics of this biblical prophecy hard to accept since there will always be face-to-face business whether you're marked or not.  After all, business happens when 2 people have something the other needs.  Who needs money at all in situations like that?

Just in case the admins of the Bible deleted what you're looking for, I pretty sure Google has indexed its pages. https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=mark+of+the+beast+bible

I've already been down the "why don't you just google it" path as you so unhelpfully suggested.

The search results are filled with ranting by fundamentalists about 666, the anti-christ, etc. but nothing about money and bearing a number to conduct business.  There's too much religious noise on the web for an atheist to find the simplest things in the bible. :p

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June 11, 2012, 12:23:57 AM
 #10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVFHl7aYuE

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June 11, 2012, 12:28:48 AM
 #11


There ya go!

"Revelation 13:16-17
King James Version (KJV)

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

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June 11, 2012, 12:29:58 AM
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Can someone point the thread to chapter and verse for this?  I'm curious.

Quote from: Revelation 13:16-18
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

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June 11, 2012, 03:05:27 AM
 #13

I see it quite unlikely that in case of global adoption politicians would want their salary to registered bitcoin addresses. Imagine what politicians would look like if their actions would suddenly become transparent! No I don't share the OP's concerns.

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June 11, 2012, 03:05:44 AM
 #14

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

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June 11, 2012, 03:09:51 AM
 #15

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

Code:
He
also would have    
LOL'd at BitCoin's  
new dependency upon
   ASCII BERNANKE  
:'::.:::::.:::.::.:
: :.: ' ' ' ' : :':
:.:     _.__    '.:
:   _,^"   "^x,   :
'  x7'        `4,  
 XX7            4XX
 XX              XX
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No one can make BTC transactions without ascii Bernake, or hash of himself Cheesy

Ok, I've heard enough conspiracy theories tonight... I should stop before going mental Smiley

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June 11, 2012, 03:10:18 AM
 #16

Right now, Bitcoin is money, the reward of a material pursuit, and has no bearing on the spiritual, except when it interferes with or distracts us from our spiritual goals. If any material attainment, including money, becomes the sole impelling force in our lives then God is not, and there is the sin. If Revelation is a future to come, the Beast is that which supplants God as the focus of your worship. Is that some leader or a monetary unit? It could be. No matter what the difficulty, you have the ability to choose the reward you seek, it is either spiritual or material.

Further research:
Quote
Traditionally, there are four approaches to interpreting Revelation: 1) preterist, 2) historicist, 3) symbolic, and 4) futuristic.

As the term implies, the preterist approach places the events and visions in the past, particularly to the Roman Empire of the first century A.D. The proponents of this view believe that the primary purpose of the Book is to encourage the faithful that God will intervene in their immediate struggles.

The historicist interpretation approaches the Revelation as a panoramic view of history from the first century A.D. to the Second Coming of Christ. This is the view of most of the Protestant Reformers. They believe that various symbols can be associated with various nations and events throughout time to the present and the near future, when Christ will return in glory and power.

The symbolic view maintains that the Revelation portrays the conflict between good and evil throughout the entire span of human history. The Book attempts to encourage the faithful to keep up the fight because, despite the magnitude of the challenge and depth of suffering involved in this fight, good overcomes evil in the end and reigns forever.

The futuristic view holds that from Chapter 4 on, Revelation deals with events at the "End Times," as spoken of in the Book of Daniel by the angel Gabriel. According to this view, Chapter 1 deals with the past, chapters 2 and 3 tell of things that were present and shortly followed at the time of its writing, and chapters 4 through 22 tell of things that will follow the Age of the Church during the Second Coming of Christ.

The Revelation, according to Cayce, is a very special part of the great biblical story and should be studied as a kind of roadmap for the final spiritualization of our bodies and minds. The symbols and scenes in this mysterious book represent experiences and stages through which we pass in our struggle to awaken again spiritually and regain our close connection with God and the Garden we once shared.
http://edgarcayce.org/ps2/mysticism_interpretating_revelation.html

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June 11, 2012, 08:31:52 AM
 #17

Certainly businesses could be forced to use specific 'assigned' addresses, (it's easy enough to check if they aren't)
How is that, exactly?

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June 11, 2012, 08:37:26 AM
 #18

They cant force you to use the address they give out.

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June 11, 2012, 09:50:14 AM
 #19

USG declares only BTC from "green addresses" (addresses a client [in this case, databases hosted by the USG] whitelists to allow immediate payment) are permitted to be used as legal tender. Merchants are not allowed to accept payment from addresses not in the national database. To register for a green address, you need to fill out a form. In part of that form, you need to tick a box indicating unwavering loyalty to your government, agreeing to the philosophy it espouses (peace, prosperity, and the eradication of religion). There's no reason a concept like Patriotism can't symbolize the concept of rejecting Christ in some scenarios.

It seems inevitable that wireless technology will soon make the economic benefits of having some type of transmitter within you far outweigh the privacy risks, and perhaps in effort to "protect your rights," the government will force all merchants to acquire specific licenses to receive the password (I doubt passwords be static at that time, but changing every millisecond -- everyone needs to be in sync, password to access the password may relate to code within your body, unique to you - and who knows what other compromises a merchant would need to make to get that license to access such sensitive data) to access your chip. Basically, whenever a merchant receives payment from a non-"green" address, the government would immediately know exactly who it is via an alerter system they developed, and almost certainly the location of the merchant operating unlawfully.

So, you've effectively had a number ingrained in you. You need that number to participate in the legal economy and pay taxes. Failing to do so would cause hardship, and perhaps death. Getting a green address assigned to you requires you to submit to the Anti-Christ, and you give testimony to that submission (rather, a rejection of Christ) merely by broadcasting your signal. Bitcoin is clearly of Satan.

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June 11, 2012, 10:48:20 AM
 #20

Basically, whenever a merchant receives payment from a non-"green" address, the government would immediately know exactly who it is via an alerter system they developed, and almost certainly the location of the merchant operating unlawfully.
Uhmm, no, they wouldn't.

As far as these 'green' addresses are concerned, exactly how does 'legal money' end up appearing on this collection of green addresses? (considering the fact that any money from non-green addresses would be considered illegal)

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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