SafeDICE.com ★ Bitcoin Dice ★ Monero ★ 0.5% Edge ★ Fast Cashout ★ Since 2014

[SafeDice]

Good question! And of course it is better, lets take an example:

Flat rate H.E.
You play with 0.75% H.E. and max win of 0.375% of Bankroll (1/2 kelly), for every bet with potential profit less than 0.375% BR, you use flat 0.75% H.E.  Higher than that, you are not allowed to bet.

Variable H.E.
When you play with potential profit 0.375% of the bankroll, you still use 0.75% H.E. Lower than that the site will use lower H.E. instead of flat 0.75%. Higher than that, the site still allows you to bet with higher H.E. (remember that in flat rate, you are not allowed to do so).

That makes sense. But I'm guessing there is some sort of max profit cap? If your BR is BTC23 am I allowed to place a bet with a potential profit of BTC23 (with HE at ~40.5%)? If so, that's very risky for you.

Yes, currently we cap the max profit to 5% of BR.
But the main reason is to prevent a player misplacing his bet with H.E. > 10%. Even if we remove the limitation, 40.5% HE can only risk 20.25% BR.

[Testing123]

hi there.. is there any chance that you will add affiliate program to your site? so we can promote yours in our site?

thanks!

Sure Clint, that is on our list, will contact you once we are done with it

I can see in my account page there is a ref link for me. So is the ref system fully functional?

[SafeDice]

hi there.. is there any chance that you will add affiliate program to your site? so we can promote yours in our site?

thanks!

Sure Clint, that is on our list, will contact you once we are done with it

I can see in my account page there is a ref link for me. So is the ref system fully functional?

Yess, it is fully functional. Just released few minutes ago

[pawel7777]

hi there.. is there any chance that you will add affiliate program to your site? so we can promote yours in our site?

thanks!

Sure Clint, that is on our list, will contact you once we are done with it

I can see in my account page there is a ref link for me. So is the ref system fully functional?

Yess, it is fully functional. Just released few minutes ago

Get up to 0.01% of total wager of players that you refer.

Is this correct? Are you paying on amount wagered, not on player's loss?
How does this work from your perspective? If all the site's income comes from players' losses, aren't you concerned that with that system it could kill your profitability?

Example: if referred player keeps betting small amounts over and over again, it could theoretically generate a greater liability (referral payments) than the player's loss. And of course, it get worse when player ends up with profit.

Also, it says "up to 0.01%" is there a breakdown/table of amount wagered to % commission?

[dooglus]

Get up to 0.01% of total wager of players that you refer.

Is this correct? Are you paying on amount wagered, not on player's loss?

How does this work from your perspective? If all the site's income comes from players' losses, aren't you concerned that with that system it could kill your profitability?
[/quote]

It's possible for a player to wager huge amounts and break even or even make a profit. In such cases I would expect the house to be unable to pay the referral fees. But in general the site expects payers to lose 0.5% of their wagered amount. They take 10% of that in commission (I guess - I don't know that I've seen that written anywhere), meaning they expect to get 0.05% of the wagered amount. And so they're giving 20% of their expected commission to the referring player.

I notice that the 'Copy' button next to my referrer link doesn't light up when I hover over it like all the other active buttons do.

[pawel7777]

It's possible for a player to wager huge amounts and break even or even make a profit. In such cases I would expect the house to be unable to pay the referral fees. But in general the site expects payers to lose 0.5% of their wagered amount. They take 10% of that in commission (I guess - I don't know that I've seen that written anywhere), meaning they expect to get 0.05% of the wagered amount. And so they're giving 20% of their expected commission to the referring player.

That's my point. The system looks very risky and destructive (for the operator), unless he holds sufficient reserves. If the site is on loss (or breaks even, or makes a only a very small profit) for a longer period of time, the operator would have to cover ref payments from his own pocket (or his share of investment, which is even worse).

I notice that the 'Copy' button next to my referrer link doesn't light up when I hover over it like all the other active buttons do.

Works fine for me (firefox).

[dooglus]

I notice that the 'Copy' button next to my referrer link doesn't light up when I hover over it like all the other active buttons do.

Works fine for me (firefox).

I figured they must have quickly fixed it, but it's still not working for me in Chromium.

[SafeDice]

It's possible for a player to wager huge amounts and break even or even make a profit. In such cases I would expect the house to be unable to pay the referral fees. But in general the site expects payers to lose 0.5% of their wagered amount. They take 10% of that in commission (I guess - I don't know that I've seen that written anywhere), meaning they expect to get 0.05% of the wagered amount. And so they're giving 20% of their expected commission to the referring player.

That's my point. The system looks very risky and destructive (for the operator), unless he holds sufficient reserves. If the site is on loss (or breaks even, or makes a only a very small profit) for a longer period of time, the operator would have to cover ref payments from his own pocket (or his share of investment, which is even worse).

Doog's explanation is correct except that we reduce / don't take every commission. When the players is referred, those 0.05% will goes to the referrer. This ensure that for every bet the commission will not be higher than 10% of the H.E. Our next step is to create a thorough explanation about this on the site (as well as Variable H.E. system).

First we have to separate our role as investor and operator:

• As an investor, the site takes 10% of H.E. as commission / ref payments. It is only 10% of the expected profit, so it should be ok.
• As an operator, we remove ourselves from variance, we focus on the wagering amount (which is good).

Those ref payments are taken from the role as an investor, directly from the bankroll. So, as an operator, we are very safe, we shouldn't worry about variance.

In a way, the system is actually similar with taking fee from winning bets. Remember that when investing in a gambling business, our profit from one bet is used to cover the loss of another bet, we only wish that total profit is higher than total loss.

I notice that the 'Copy' button next to my referrer link doesn't light up when I hover over it like all the other active buttons do.

Works fine for me (firefox).

We will check on that again, this copy feature is quite tricky to be implemented in cross-browser environment.

[yenzae0215]

if you reffer someone will it be shown in the personal/ref page?

[dooglus]

Doog's explanation is correct except that we reduce / don't take every commission. When the players is referred, those 0.05% will goes to the referrer. This ensure that for every bet the commission will not be higher than 10% of the H.E. Our next step is to create a thorough explanation about this on the site (as well as Variable H.E. system).

First we have to separate our role as investor and operator:

• As an investor, the site takes 10% of H.E. as commission / ref payments. It is only 10% of the expected profit, so it should be ok.
• As an operator, we remove ourselves from variance, we focus on the wagering amount (which is good).

Those ref payments are taken from the role as an investor, directly from the bankroll. So, as an operator, we are very safe, we shouldn't worry about variance.

In a way, the system is actually similar with taking fee from winning bets. Remember that when investing in a gambling business, our profit from one bet is used to cover the loss of another bet, we only wish that total profit is higher than total loss.

It's hard to follow you exactly.

Can I take a guess at what you're saying, and you correct me?

My guess:

We take 10% of the house edge of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission. If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we give 20% of that 10% to the person who referred him.

In other words, your commission that you charge investors is 10% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered, rather than 10% of actual profit, and the referral fees you pay at 2% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered - so if every player has been referred, the referral fees are exactly one fifth of the commission.

Is that right?

If so, referral payments aren't "up to 0.01%" as you wrote, they are "from 0.01% to 0.2%". Imagine everyone bets at the maximum house edge of 10%. Your commission is 1%, and the referral fees are 20% of that, or 0.2% of the amount wagered. So maybe I got something wrong, or maybe you did.

I notice that the 'Copy' button next to my referrer link doesn't light up when I hover over it like all the other active buttons do.

Works fine for me (firefox).

We will check on that again, this copy feature is quite tricky to be implemented in cross-browser environment.

The copy feature works for me. The button just doesn't change colour when I hover over it. Most buttons do.

[SafeDice]

It's hard to follow you exactly.

Can I take a guess at what you're saying, and you correct me?

My guess:

We take 10% of the house edge of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission. If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we give 20% of that 10% to the person who referred him.

In other words, your commission that you charge investors is 10% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered, rather than 10% of actual profit, and the referral fees you pay at 2% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered - so if every player has been referred, the referral fees are exactly one fifth of the commission.

Is that right?


If so, referral payments aren't "up to 0.01%" as you wrote, they are "from 0.01% to 0.2%". Imagine everyone bets at the maximum house edge of 10%. Your commission is 1%, and the referral fees are 20% of that, or 0.2% of the amount wagered. So maybe I got something wrong, or maybe you did.

Ah, I just re-read my post again, and its my fault being unclear and have a typo in the site's explanation . Let me try to clarify:

We take 10% of the house edge of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission.

Exactly. This one is correct.

If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we give 20% of that 10% to the person who referred him.

No... So sorry, this is where I made the typo that confuse you

We give all of the commission to the referrer up to 0.1% of wagered amount (it should be 0.1% instead of 0.01%).

This means the referrer will get all the commission for bet with 1% H.E. and less. More than that, the commission will be shared with the site op.

The copy feature works for me. The button just doesn't change colour when I hover over it. Most buttons do.

Got this fixed! Btw, if you noticed those button is made from Flash element

[Criterion]

It's hard to follow you exactly.

Can I take a guess at what you're saying, and you correct me?

My guess:

We take 10% of the house edge of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission. If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we give 20% of that 10% to the person who referred him.

In other words, your commission that you charge investors is 10% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered, rather than 10% of actual profit, and the referral fees you pay at 2% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered - so if every player has been referred, the referral fees are exactly one fifth of the commission.

Is that right?


If so, referral payments aren't "up to 0.01%" as you wrote, they are "from 0.01% to 0.2%". Imagine everyone bets at the maximum house edge of 10%. Your commission is 1%, and the referral fees are 20% of that, or 0.2% of the amount wagered. So maybe I got something wrong, or maybe you did.

Ah, I just re-read my post again, and its my fault being unclear and have a typo in the site's explanation . Let me try to clarify:

We take 10% of the house edge of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission.

Exactly. This one is correct.

If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we give 20% of that 10% to the person who referred him.

No... So sorry, this is where I made the typo that confuse you

We give all of the commission to the referrer up to 0.1% of wagered amount (it should be 0.1% instead of 0.01%).

This means the referrer will get all the commission for bet with 1% H.E. and less. More than that, the commission will be shared with the site op.

The copy feature works for me. The button just doesn't change colour when I hover over it. Most buttons do.

Got this fixed! Btw, if you noticed those button is made from Flash element

Will the affiliate program affect current investors?

[dooglus]

Will the affiliate program affect current investors?

I don't see how it could. The site was apparently always taking 10% of the house edge as commission, only now they have decided to give some of it to their affiliates. What they do with their commission is up to them, and doesn't affect the investors, since the investors were going to be paying it anyway.

What I'm wondering is when is the commission charged? I haven't noticed it going out of my investment each time someone bets, but maybe it does.

[dooglus]

We give all of the commission to the referrer up to 0.1% of wagered amount (it should be 0.1% instead of 0.01%).

So I'll update my guess:

We take 10% of (house_edge) of every bet directly from the bankroll as commission.

If the bet was made by a player who was referred, we take 10% of min(1%, house_edge) of the bet amount out of our commission and give it to the person who referred him.

In other words, your commission that you charge investors is 10% of (house edge)% of the amount wagered, rather than 10% of actual profit, and the referral fees you pay are the same as the commission for bets with a house edge of 1% or less, and less than the commission for bets with a higher house edge - so if every player has been referred and nobody ever plays with a house edge over 1%, the referral fees are exactly the same as the commission.

Is it right now?


Some examples:

house edge: 0.5%
commission: 0.05%
affiliate: 0.05%

house edge: 1%
commission: 0.1%
affiliate: 0.1%

house edge: 1.5%
commission: 0.15%
affiliate: 0.1%

house edge: 2%
commission: 0.2%
affiliate: 0.1%

house edge: 10%
commission: 1%
affiliate: 0.1%


My concern is that almost every bet is going to have a house edge of 1% or less, and most big players are going to make sure they have been referred by themselves or by a friend. So how does the house cover expenses when it is giving all its commission away to affiliates?

Edit: I notice profit and investment are both up this morning. Profit is positive for the first time in a while, and investment is over 25 BTC. Nice work.

[dooglus]

What I'm wondering is when is the commission charged? I haven't noticed it going out of my investment each time someone bets, but maybe it does.

I just played about with this to see how it works. I made notes about what happened, and bolded the 4 things that seemed weird or wrong:

I referred myself, deposited 0.0099 on the new account ("Player-470"), and played a little.

At first I divested fully on my main account so I could see the effect of just the referral payments. I noticed that bets of 1k satoshis earned me nothing. 0.5% of 1k is 5 satoshis, and 10% of that is 0.5 satoshis. I made 10 separate bets of 1k satoshis on the referred account and earned nothing at all for them on the main account. I guess payments are rounded, rather than having the sub-satoshi payments build up.

I made 4 bets of 2k satoshis and 3 bets of 4k satoshis. The main account earned a total of 10 satoshis for those bets, as expected. (4*2k + 3*4k = 20k; 0.5% of 20k is 100; 10% of 100 is 10). One thing that struck me as odd is that the affiliate payments were added to the main accounts 'invested' figure, not its balance. Even though the invested figure was zero and the balance wasn't. I would expect the affiliate payments to go into the balance, not the bankroll.

Then I invested on the main account. I worked out how much I needed to invest to become exactly 10% of the site's bankroll, and invested that amount, to make the calculations easier. I was invested 2.47165911 BTC and the site bankroll was 24.71659104 BTC. I was "10.00000002% of the total site investment".

The referred account bet 2k satoshis and lost; 0.5% of 2k is 10 satoshis; the commission and affiliate payment should both be 1 satoshi, and the 10% investor should get 200 satoshis.

On the main account I see my investment change twice:

2.47165911 -> 2.47166110 -> 2.47166111

The first change adds 199 satoshis, the 2nd adds 1 satoshi. It seems the commission was taken off first, and the affiliate payment was added later.

Then the referred account bet 10k satoshis and lost again; commission and affiliate payments should be 5 satoshis, and 10% investor should get 1k satoshis.

This time I only see my investment change once:

2.47166111 -> 2.47167116

It has added on 1005 satoshis. That's 10% of the new site profit, and the affiliate payment. It looks like no commission was charged. That's probably a bug?

The referred account made one final bet of 20k satoshis and won 20k satoshis. Commission and affiliate payment should be 10 satoshis, the investor should lost 2k satoshis.

My investment changes once again:

2.47167116 -> 2.47165125

I have lost 1991 satoshis. I'm not sure why - I should have lost 2000. Maybe since I'm a fraction over 10% of the bankroll, the loss cost me 2001 satoshis, then the affiliate payment of 10 was added, and the commission was forgotten again? That would make 1991 total.

[dooglus]

The 'target' payout thing isn't working properly still.

I set it to 2x, then bet 0.01, hit 'w' to double on loss, and had to go up to 0.08 or 0.16 before I won. The payout multiplier changed a little from 2x as I did so, because the house edge was going up. Then when I hit 'e' a couple of times to get back to the initial 0.01 bet, the payout multiplier didn't go back to 2x.

It's like the 2x payout target is remembered for a while, but if I get too far from the 0.5% edge it gets lost.

[J3VVL]

Not sure what happened here!

https://i.imgur.com/Ym4c036.png

martingaling i see... you said that was a losing strategy! lmfao

[BrunesBTC45]

Cool site.

I am planning to deposit 10 BTC here. Please be good.

[J3VVL]

What I'm wondering is when is the commission charged? I haven't noticed it going out of my investment each time someone bets, but maybe it does.

I just played about with this to see how it works. I made notes about what happened, and bolded the 4 things that seemed weird or wrong:

I referred myself, deposited 0.0099 on the new account ("Player-470"), and played a little.

At first I divested fully on my main account so I could see the effect of just the referral payments. I noticed that bets of 1k satoshis earned me nothing. 0.5% of 1k is 5 satoshis, and 10% of that is 0.5 satoshis. I made 10 separate bets of 1k satoshis on the referred account and earned nothing at all for them on the main account. I guess payments are rounded, rather than having the sub-satoshi payments build up.

I made 4 bets of 2k satoshis and 3 bets of 4k satoshis. The main account earned a total of 10 satoshis for those bets, as expected. (4*2k + 3*4k = 20k; 0.5% of 20k is 100; 10% of 100 is 10). One thing that struck me as odd is that the affiliate payments were added to the main accounts 'invested' figure, not its balance. Even though the invested figure was zero and the balance wasn't. I would expect the affiliate payments to go into the balance, not the bankroll.

Then I invested on the main account. I worked out how much I needed to invest to become exactly 10% of the site's bankroll, and invested that amount, to make the calculations easier. I was invested 2.47165911 BTC and the site bankroll was 24.71659104 BTC. I was "10.00000002% of the total site investment".

The referred account bet 2k satoshis and lost; 0.5% of 2k is 10 satoshis; the commission and affiliate payment should both be 1 satoshi, and the 10% investor should get 200 satoshis.

On the main account I see my investment change twice:

2.47165911 -> 2.47166110 -> 2.47166111

The first change adds 199 satoshis, the 2nd adds 1 satoshi. It seems the commission was taken off first, and the affiliate payment was added later.

Then the referred account bet 10k satoshis and lost again; commission and affiliate payments should be 5 satoshis, and 10% investor should get 1k satoshis.

This time I only see my investment change once:

2.47166111 -> 2.47167116

It has added on 1005 satoshis. That's 10% of the new site profit, and the affiliate payment. It looks like no commission was charged. That's probably a bug?

The referred account made one final bet of 20k satoshis and won 20k satoshis. Commission and affiliate payment should be 10 satoshis, the investor should lost 2k satoshis.

My investment changes once again:

2.47167116 -> 2.47165125

I have lost 1991 satoshis. I'm not sure why - I should have lost 2000. Maybe since I'm a fraction over 10% of the bankroll, the loss cost me 2001 satoshis, then the affiliate payment of 10 was added, and the commission was forgotten again? That would make 1991 total.

damb you must REALLY care ... obvious shill is obvious Lol

[dooglus]

martingaling i see... you said that was a losing strategy! lmfao

It is. So are all other dice strategies. I don't expect to win, I expect to lose eventually.

damb you must REALLY care ... obvious shill is obvious Lol

Tautologies are tautological. What are you trying to say?

If you're suggesting that I created and am running a dice site with a bankroll of 26 BTC, you're very wrong.