would someone give a loan?

[leen93]

Or it could be a cheap way of getting leverage for a month on a hoped for increase in the Bitcoin price, at a cost of $10.
Ignore the collateral for the minute, that's just security to be returned by the escrow on repayment of $1000 plus 1% i.e. $1010.
Say, for the sake of easy calculation, Bitcoin at the time of the loan is trading at $333.3, he gets 3 BTC = $1000.
IF the price goes up to say $505 during the month, then he pays back $1010, now only 2BTC, making a profit on the loan (as well as the collateral).   

that's exactly what i mean
i didn't mean to ask for a loan too, just if it would be reasonable someone would do that?
but it is not for buying bitcoin
but indeed, i would pay back 1010$ in bitcoin
if bitcoin is 10100$ in a month i would pay back 0.1 bitcoin, if it's worth 101$ i would give back 10 btc per btc lended. I'll immediately transfer those btc back to fiat so even when the price would go down like hell I'll still be able to pay back. It's just lending out fiat with an intrest rate of 1% a month (of 12.68% a year).
I could also do it with lower amounts maybe but the problem is how to use the collateral then. Is there a way to be 100% sure I'll get my sended btc back when i pay back the loan?
I'm really new in all of this and don't know how everything works

So you don't want to sell your bitcoin for USD and buy bitcoin back later, because you don't want the risk of bitcoin price going up in the next month, right?

What about selling ~2.7 btc for $1000 and buy it back later, and entering a leveraged long position at the same time to hedge the risk?

That would maybe cost me more and give me risk by putting my btc on an exchange

Regarding the cost, I don't think 1% monthly rate is good enough as the lender would have a loss (in terms of bitcoin) as long as bitcoin price goes up just 1% in the next month. I have no idea what is the "fair" rate should be though.

Regarding to risk, you are absolutely right.

yes but if he buys bitcoin with his fiat and sells them when he get them back he will have a profit in USD for sure. Not everyone is so bullish on bitcoin...

[tmfp]

If you actually need $1000 for a month for a specific fiat purpose, why not just ask to borrow $1000 in fiat using your bitcoin as collateral, and pay back $1000 plus agreed interest?
At current prices, your security is c.150% of the loan, only becoming an issue for the lender if Bitcoin drops below $250. I don't think you will get 1% per month but I don't see why a lender wouldn't take that loan on in principle.

Is there a way to be 100% sure I'll get my sended btc back when i pay back the loan?

That's what an escrow is for, you either trust them or you don't.

I'm really new in all of this and don't know how everything works

Looking at your post history, you aren't that new.
Forgive me for being cynical, but I think you are hoping to speculate on a rise in the BTC price and want to get cheap leverage by trying to set up a sort of P2P bet disguised as a loan arrangement.
Not that there's anything scammy about that, a bearish lender might be happy to do it, but would want more than $10, otherwise they could just sell their own coin on an exchange, buy it back in a month and save all the hassle.

Not everyone is so bullish on bitcoin...

No, but I think you are    Good luck.

lol, just buy NOW, don't wait any second anymore before we go up again

[leen93]

If you actually need $1000 for a month for a specific fiat purpose, why not just ask to borrow $1000 in fiat using your bitcoin as collateral, and pay back $1000 plus agreed interest?
At current prices, your security is c.150% of the loan, only becoming an issue for the lender if Bitcoin drops below $250. I don't think you will get 1% per month but I don't see why a lender wouldn't take that loan on in principle.

Is there a way to be 100% sure I'll get my sended btc back when i pay back the loan?

That's what an escrow is for, you either trust them or you don't.

I'm really new in all of this and don't know how everything works

Looking at your post history, you aren't that new.
Forgive me for being cynical, but I think you are hoping to speculate on a rise in the BTC price and just trying to get cheap leverage by trying to set up a sort of P2P bet disguised as a loan arrangement.
Not that there's anything scammy about that, a bearish lender might be happy to do it, but would want more than $10, otherwise they could just sell their own coin on an exchange and buy it back in a month.

Not everyone is so bullish on bitcoin...

No, but I think you are    Good luck.

lol, just buy NOW, don't wait any second anymore before we go up again

I guess ppl bearish in bitcoin don't have any bitcoins anymore so they can't sell them :p and yes, I think btc will go up, but don't need the money to buy it but for something else. But don't want to sell my btc but giving them as collateral is no problem

[tmfp]

yes, I think btc will go up, but don't need the money to buy it but for something else. But don't want to sell my btc but giving them as collateral is no problem

So, at the risk of repeating myself, just borrow and repay in $ not BTC.

[michaeladair]

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month (1%) if i could give a collateral of 4 btc to an escrow during that month?

Idk about everyone else but 1% sounds like a horrible deal for a whole month....

[leen93]

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month (1%) if i could give a collateral of 4 btc to an escrow during that month?

Idk about everyone else but 1% sounds like a horrible deal for a whole month....

ok but transferring btc is free, wire transfers or other payment methods not... And 12.6% without risk is horrible?

[michaeladair]

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month (1%) if i could give a collateral of 4 btc to an escrow during that month?

Idk about everyone else but 1% sounds like a horrible deal for a whole month....

ok but transferring btc is free, wire transfers or other payment methods not... And 12.6% without risk is horrible?

I guess it's not that bad, but I just see the 1% as $10... You can make a lot more than that by doing smaller loans to a few people.

[leen93]

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month (1%) if i could give a collateral of 4 btc to an escrow during that month?

Idk about everyone else but 1% sounds like a horrible deal for a whole month....

ok but transferring btc is free, wire transfers or other payment methods not... And 12.6% without risk is horrible?

I guess it's not that bad, but I just see the 1% as $10... You can make a lot more than that by doing smaller loans to a few people.

I can also borrow more but above 5k I'll have problems providing collateral

[leen93]

would someone give me a loan of 1000$ in bitcoin for 1 month (1%) if i could give a collateral of 4 btc to an escrow during that month?

Idk about everyone else but 1% sounds like a horrible deal for a whole month....

ok but transferring btc is free, wire transfers or other payment methods not... And 12.6% without risk is horrible?

I guess it's not that bad, but I just see the 1% as $10... You can make a lot more than that by doing smaller loans to a few people.

if you are rich enough you can do both

[notlist3d]

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan. 

[AnonBitCoiner]

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan. 

That was my first post I didn't hyperlink it though. I think the OP was asking hypothetically, not actually though

[tmfp]

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan. 

That was my first post I didn't hyperlink it though. I think the OP was asking hypothetically, not actually though

He did follow the link and asked marcotheminer rather than start his own thread, and got turned down
"Interest is much too low and it isn't worth it"

I know someone who might entertain the idea of lending to him, but not with the exposure to the Bitcoin price that comes with doing it the way he wants to, and at a lot more than 1% per month. And with an immediate termination and liquidation of collateral BTC should the price drop below 105% security, especially now he's talking about up to a year's term loan...

[AnonBitCoiner]

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan. 

That was my first post I didn't hyperlink it though. I think the OP was asking hypothetically, not actually though

He did follow the link and asked marcotheminer rather than start his own thread, and got turned down
"Interest is much too low and it isn't worth it"

I know someone who might entertain the idea of lending to him, but not with the exposure to the Bitcoin price that comes with doing it the way he wants to, and at a lot more than 1% per month. And with an immediate termination and liquidation of collateral BTC should the price drop below 105% security, especially now he's talking about up to a year's term loan...

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

[tmfp]

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

Not trying to tell you your business, but you do understand that's it not so much a loan, more you selling him BTC at today's price and then buying it back at whatever rate prevails at the end of the month, and getting $10 for that risk?

[AnonBitCoiner]

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

Not trying to tell you your business, but you do understand that's it not so much a loan, more you selling him BTC at today's price and then buying it back at whatever rate prevails at the end of the month, and getting $10 for that risk?

I wouldn't be buying it back though; he's essentially asking for $1000 USD, and he'll pay me back at the end. Maybe I'm too tired and I'm misunderstanding the question though.

[tmfp]

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

Not trying to tell you your business, but you do understand that's it not so much a loan, more you selling him BTC at today's price and then buying it back at whatever rate prevails at the end of the month, and getting $10 for that risk?

I wouldn't be buying it back though; he's essentially asking for $1000 USD, and he'll pay me back at the end. Maybe I'm too tired and I'm misunderstanding the question though.

Ok, read this when you've had a sleep 

Let's say you do the deal as originally specified.
He wants $1000, paid in Bitcoin. At $375, that's 2.6666 BTC you send him. In exchange, you get an IOU for $1010 and the escrow holds the collateral until the end of the loan term, then releases it back to him on receipt of the agreed $1010.
You take the $1010, but wait, the rate has gone up to $400 in the meantime.
The $1010 now only buys you 2.525 BTC to replace the 2.6666 that you originally gave him, so you lose 0.1416 BTC on the deal. (Of course, if  Bitcoin/USD goes down, you make a commensurate profit.)
Without a loan clause authorizing the escrow to deduct any change in the exchange rate from the collateral, it's not a loan, it's a private bet between the two of you on the future price of Bitcoin.

[leen93]

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

Not trying to tell you your business, but you do understand that's it not so much a loan, more you selling him BTC at today's price and then buying it back at whatever rate prevails at the end of the month, and getting $10 for that risk?

I wouldn't be buying it back though; he's essentially asking for $1000 USD, and he'll pay me back at the end. Maybe I'm too tired and I'm misunderstanding the question though.

Ok, read this when you've had a sleep  

Let's say you do the deal as originally specified.
He wants $1000, paid in Bitcoin. At $375, that's 2.6666 BTC you send him. In exchange, you get an IOU for $1010 and the escrow holds the collateral until the end of the loan term, then releases it back to him on receipt of the agreed $1010.
You take the $1010, but wait, the rate has gone up to $400 in the meantime.
The $1010 now only buys you 2.525 BTC to replace the 2.6666 that you originally gave him, so you lose 0.1416 BTC on the deal. (Of course, if  Bitcoin/USD goes down, you make a commensurate profit.)
Without a loan clause authorizing the escrow to deduct any change in the exchange rate, it's not a loan, it's a private bet between the two of you on the future price of Bitcoin.

Yes, you don't have to see it that way. See it like you use your dollars from your bank account. You buy btc with them (you can also pay me in other ways, but most of them are more expensive), lend them out and sell them again when you get them back. Then you have an intrest rate of 12% instead of the 1 (I even think I don't get that here) % on your bank account.
I'm really honest and really willing to pay back. I understand that in the long term if bitcoin crashes the collateral would not be enough (and technically I could run away) but I'm willing to adjust the amount I have in collateral. Make it lower when bitcoin price goes up, make it higher when bitcoin price drops and keeping the collateral at 120% all the time. (monthly, weekly, or even daily if you prefer but probably escrows will not agree with this). You don't have to do this but 12.68% a year without any risk instead of a 1% on your bank (maybe even with a bigger risk), don't say this is a bad investment, maybe you don't do it because you are bullish on bitcoin but for some people this could be interesting (for people who don't care about the bitcoin price and just want a good safe investment with their dollars), but till now I didn't find anyone yet.


I am lending US dollars, no bitcoins, you don't have to forget that. If you don't have dollars and don't want to sell anything for dollars this is indeed not a good investment.

[leen93]

I'm suprised no  one has posted yet.  For loans post over in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0 (loan forum) to get more attention.   You also need to know if short or long term.

I agree you sound like a good person to loan. But I think your 1 percent will not happen on here but guess we will see.   BTC loans just are not a low cost fiat loan.  

That was my first post I didn't hyperlink it though. I think the OP was asking hypothetically, not actually though

He did follow the link and asked marcotheminer rather than start his own thread, and got turned down
"Interest is much too low and it isn't worth it"

I know someone who might entertain the idea of lending to him, but not with the exposure to the Bitcoin price that comes with doing it the way he wants to, and at a lot more than 1% per month. And with an immediate termination and liquidation of collateral BTC should the price drop below 105% security, especially now he's talking about up to a year's term loan...

Interesting, so it was a serious question; I might be willing to make a loan, if he were to put up 4 BTC as collateral.

Interesting
But we need a really trustworthy escrow. I definetely don't trust you to just give 4 BTC and probably the opposite counts too  
and it doesnt have to be about 1000$, other amounts are possible too but it sounds a good amount to me to start with.

Can someone recommend us an escrow? (I never used an escrow before too)

I'm also thinking about opening a real virtual bank. Where people can deposit and withdraw their $ all the time (maybe against a small fee of 0.1%) and get 1% a month and I having all my bitcoins at an escrow who confirms every day the bitcoins he has in collateral are worth more than the deposits. But maybe this is to difficult and just a few people lending me 1000$ would be easier than 100 people lending me a bit.

[DannyHamilton]

Can someone recommend us an escrow? (I never used an escrow before too)

I'm generally comfortable using any of the top 8 escrow providers on this list:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0

[Gianluca95]

Try to ask it in the Lending Section. But, if you've 4 btc that you can give to an escrow, why do you want 1 btc in lending? So strange this situation. I consider that the best way is to use escrow for this type of lending.