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Author Topic: Are we winning the "drug war"?  (Read 3002 times)
RodeoX
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June 15, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
 #1

Since a few threads lately have gotten off track talking about drug policy i thought I would start a thread for discussing just this topic.
So, are we winning, is it worth fighting, is it even moral to have such a war?

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June 15, 2012, 03:55:33 PM
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It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

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June 15, 2012, 03:57:12 PM
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depends what side of 'we' you are on?

Drugs are winning the drug war.

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June 15, 2012, 03:59:45 PM
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It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

+1


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June 15, 2012, 04:12:51 PM
 #5

It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

+1
++1
That's my opinion also. It just seems like the effort is way more destructive to society than drugs ever could be. There is also the total hypocrisy of allowing the drugs lawmakers enjoy while clamping down on what they don't understand. If we really cared to help people we would surely make alcohol and tobacco illegal.

Or we could recognize that we have two drug problems. 1=The medical problem of addiction and abuse. 2=The criminality associated with drug use. We do almost nothing to help drug addicts. We simply arrest them as a punishment for their medical condition. As for the criminality, most of that comes from it's illegal status. People would not be killing each other over drugs if they were legal.

What a waste of needed resources. And who stands to gain? The big drug cartels for one. If we legalized marijuana, for example, the bottom would drop out from the Zetas and the other groups destroying Mexico. They benefit greatly from it's illegal status and their ability to game those laws.

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June 15, 2012, 04:42:13 PM
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It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

+1


+1

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June 15, 2012, 04:49:21 PM
 #7

The drug gangs and cartels are clearly winning...

"The more effective prohibition is at raising costs, the greater are drug industry revenues. So, more effective prohibition means that drug sellers have more money to buy guns, pay bribes, fund the dealers, and even research and develop new technologies in drug delivery (like crack cocaine). It’s hard to beat an enemy that gets stronger the more you strike against him or her."
  - http://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2012/04/19/lets-be-blunt-its-time-to-end-the-drug-war/


As well as Governments and other official agencies that use it as an excuse to bring forward all kinds of draconian measures to use against citizens they don't like.  

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June 21, 2012, 12:05:55 AM
 #8

There are lots of theories about policy. They all have a problem though: their premises don't always lead directly to their conclusions. A simple example is economic policies: Karl Marx sounded sincere, but he glossed over the lack of incentive that straight-up socialism provides. (Let's not hijack this thread here; that was only an example and I would rather find another one than debate economics.)

My take on it is that it is best to look at real-world history. Using the above example, we'd look at the U.S.S.R's stunning rise to an indestructible, fair, proletariat-oriented superpower abusive autocracy which killed more people than the Holocaust and led to its eventual collapse.

So now lets look at Prohibition. (With a capital 'P', relating to the amendment to the United States constitution.) Doesn't it sound nice on paper? No more drunken people, no alcohol poisoning, no fetal alcohol syndrome, no drunken fights, clearer decision-making from the general populace, etc. What did Prohibition actually bring? A sharp increase in organized crime, bootleggers, a loss in taxes gained from the legal sale of alcohol, and people drinking denatured alcohol. It was that last point which caused the death of over 100,000 people. Before, people could drink alcohol which was guaranteed to be safe in moderation. (Sort of...) Afterwards, they had no idea.

This applies to drugs as well. Some drugs are inherently dangerous and can kill you in one go. Ironically, 1/3 of people who try inhalants for the first time die, but I can buy inhalants legally with cash at the nearest corner-store shop. Marijuana is heavily debated, but it seems to me that cigarettes are just as dangerous, if not more carcinogenic and filled with stuff. By stuff I mean arsenic. And nicotine. When marijuana is ingested (not smoked), you get no tar, no arsenic, and only a psychological (not a physical) addiction. Chocolate is psychologically addictive.

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2. People consuming safe (in the sense that legal tobacco is "safe" -- it's not just parsley and arsenic mixed together by some shady guy with a beard on his foot) marijuana
3. People not going to gangs for their joints
4. Medicinal use without a grey area
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- It's not just about marijuana, but marijuana makes a good starting point.
- Like I said, look at history. Learn from it. Huh Profit!
- Marijuana wouldn't be a "gateway drug" if it were legal; cigarettes aren't one.
- I am pro-freedom. A guy in another thread said even suicide should be one's own choice. I wonder where the line between morally right (painful terminal illness?) and morally wrong (I need attention, and my girl left me, and I'm 12?) euthanasia is, but that's also offtopic. Marijuana is far from suicide, and I think it and other things should be one's own choice.
- Education is key.

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June 21, 2012, 12:18:16 AM
 #9

The drug gangs and cartels are clearly winning...
True - just don't forget that some of the cartels wear blue costumes and collect pensions.
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June 21, 2012, 06:05:55 AM
 #10

Drug gangs and cartels are propped up, maintained, and removed as needed by People Intelligence Agencies. It is a tool to usurp control from 'We the people'.

There are a few countries who have taken their troops out of the drug war, Peru for one. Drug use statistics remain unchanged, but violent crimes as a result of drug use have dropped sharply. Basically, they have proven that the drug war perpetuates violence.


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June 21, 2012, 08:19:06 AM
 #11

It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

I disagree with this philosophy. Drugs should be legal, not because it's a waste of money, time, and energy, but because every individual should have sovereign rights on her or his body.
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June 21, 2012, 09:43:07 AM
 #12

Basically, they have proven that the drug war perpetuates violence.

Honestly, this should be self-evident.

Or, as Nick Cage would say,

A war, perpetuating violence?

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June 21, 2012, 11:24:41 AM
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A lot more money through taxable sales would be made if we stopped this war on drugs and sold them with monitoring like alcohol and tobacco
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June 21, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
 #14

It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

I disagree with this philosophy. Drugs should be legal, not because it's a waste of money, time, and energy, but because every individual should have sovereign rights on her or his body.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

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June 21, 2012, 11:40:45 AM
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A lot more money through taxable sales would be made if we stopped this war on drugs and sold them with monitoring like alcohol and tobacco
poor silkroad/dealers/cartels

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June 21, 2012, 06:10:27 PM
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most violence is directly cause by enforcing prohibition... Cops beating a dude down for having a bag of weed or growing a few plants......



Where would all these enforcement jobs go?



Alcohol companies are one of the biggest supporters for the war on drugs....
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June 21, 2012, 06:52:43 PM
 #17

It's a waste of money, time, and energy better spent elsewhere.

Could not say it any better myself.
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June 21, 2012, 09:08:04 PM
 #18

The government should protect me from other people, not myself. In my view drug use is a victimless "crime".

Some countries have more progressive drug policies, namely the Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

and Portugal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
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June 21, 2012, 09:16:11 PM
 #19

Just imagine how violent things would get if caffeine was prohibited. The caffeine wars would make the current drug wars look like a picnic.

But yes, the "war on drugs" is really a "war on society".
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June 21, 2012, 11:13:20 PM
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... But yes, the "war on drugs" is really a "war on society".
yes. War is a social behavior between people, not between people and an inanimate substance. War also implies there should be guns and violence and cool helicopters. Blood should be spilled and rights should be suspended.
Why? I thought the problem was "Jim" is addicted to coke? He's ruining his life and the lives of people around him because he has a medical condition. Why not spend a lot less and offer free help getting off drugs? I don't think most people like Jim want to be junkies. If Jim instead chooses to steal to get drug money then lock him up for stealing, if he gets crazy and punches a toll booth attendant; book him for assault. But not for being a drug addict. This is what we do now for people addicted to the drug called alcohol.
The drug war is has been a disastrously expensive misadventure in dollars and the lives of American citizens. Surely we can do better than this.



 

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