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Author Topic: Announcement - ASIC mining processor by Butterfly Labs  (Read 219868 times)
Syke
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February 20, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
 #161

That kind of implies the chips that were on the pictured boards were early ASICs that were damaged by heat. Other statements made seem to indicate that there's never been an actual hashing prototype of the chip though.

Has BFL ever had an ASIC (in any package) that actually communicated and hashed? If the QFN chips soldered onto the SC rev 1 board weren't ASICs, what were they?

That just makes no sense. You don't just do a run of 8 chips. And even if you are crazy enough to produce just 8 chips, if you burn them all out, then there's no point in running thermal simulations. You already proved they can't handle the heat.

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Dalkore
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February 20, 2013, 04:54:14 PM
 #162

But they need the pre-order funds to continue......I'll support if someone knows what they're doing.

You realize this is the BFL thread and not the Avalon one, right?

Korbman, you seem to be new around here with that statement.   I'll leave it at June 2012.   Just because you backed the BFL horse doesn't give anyone a blank-check to bash competitors with snide comments on any whem.  Don't you represent an investment fund?

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February 20, 2013, 05:05:40 PM
 #163

That kind of implies the chips that were on the pictured boards were early ASICs that were damaged by heat. Other statements made seem to indicate that there's never been an actual hashing prototype of the chip though.

Has BFL ever had an ASIC (in any package) that actually communicated and hashed? If the QFN chips soldered onto the SC rev 1 board weren't ASICs, what were they?

That just makes no sense. You don't just do a run of 8 chips. And even if you are crazy enough to produce just 8 chips, if you burn them all out, then there's no point in running thermal simulations. You already proved they can't handle the heat.
I never said they did a run of 8 chips, if they did get a wafer (or multiple wafers) completed thy would have hundreds of chips. They did have 9 chips mounted onto PCBs though, and I was wondering what those chips were as the update in question makes it seem like the bubbled chip was an ASIC that suffered a heat death.
They also dropped from 100 wafers in the production run to 75 wafers, which would be consistent with bringing 25 wafers to the point where they couldn't recover/convert them to FCBGA. Who knows what actually happened though.
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February 20, 2013, 05:14:11 PM
 #164

But they need the pre-order funds to continue......I'll support if someone knows what they're doing.

You realize this is the BFL thread and not the Avalon one, right?

Yes I do realize.
A few months ago, its was all about BFL. Investments goes to however knows what they're doing.

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February 20, 2013, 05:32:09 PM
 #165

Pretty cute that every post of mine here gets deleted.  Sick censorship.  Gmaxwell, I presume.

I suppose it's bitcointalk policy not to speak ill of BFL, a company with $10M in btc community monies that haven't shipped an ASIC yet.

Plenty of mine get deleted as well - none of them were on topic. I assume the same goes for yours.

I have the opposite problem. Somebody's been adding posts to my profile. I've always been a believer in BFL and now these pics by Kano prove it. Now, I have to go and manually delete all the posts in my account that were of a negative nature toward them.

Seriously, if BFL/Josh would have provided such types of picks on a regular basis and were more opened as the process continued, I believe a lot of the naysaying and trolling would never have occurred. The added bonus would have been that no money would have had to be doled out to bring a person from the other side, and down under, the globe to take pictures that Jody, or anybody else, could have. For the life of me, I don't see the thinking there.

The above is not a diss.

From 98.6% to 100%, BFL is not a scam. Maybe idiots, but not a scam.

Peace, Josh.

~Bruno K~
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February 20, 2013, 05:50:57 PM
 #166

Just because you backed the BFL horse doesn't give anyone a blank-check to bash competitors with snide comments on any whem.

HA! You must be new here based on that statement Wink

And besides, not one ASIC company knows what they're doing...doesn't matter if it's BFL, Avalon, bASIC (clearly), or ASICMiner. They're all making it up as they go along since there's no set of rules as to how these devices should look or run, or how you should treat your customers either.

I only backed BFL because they were (and still are, in my opinion) the most logical investment.

Slow down and take a deep breath, Dalkore.


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February 20, 2013, 06:36:51 PM
 #167

Just because you backed the BFL horse doesn't give anyone a blank-check to bash competitors with snide comments on any whem.

HA! You must be new here based on that statement Wink

And besides, not one ASIC company knows what they're doing...doesn't matter if it's BFL, Avalon, bASIC (clearly), or ASICMiner. They're all making it up as they go along since there's no set of rules as to how these devices should look or run, or how you should treat your customers either.



It is true, that kind of behavior is common on here.   These are all startup firms and they are all have their own growing pains.  This constant bashing is getting old, lets just see what happens and then talk about it.   Pick one or the other or none, and just accept that you took a risk and something could go wrong or it could go smoothly.  They all have pros and cons and some more pronounced than others.   


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February 20, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
 #168


I also cant believe you still  think you are  days away from mass shipping when you havent had a single prototype chip to test yet. How do you plan in a few days to do functional tests, do proper chip characterization, test the chip, package and underfill for thermal and mechanical stress, verify BGA alignment, check impact of voltage fluctuation and what not? And Im just talking about the chip here, not even the rest of the PCB. This typically takes weeks, and more often than not is an iterative process as you rarely get everything right on the first try.


These are all valid concerns, but I hope they deliver quality products after thorough testing, even that could mean weeks of delay.  I'd rather have more tested and stable product than sending it back for replacement after 1 week

Of course the difficulty is rising each day, but quality is still of higher priority, maybe they could consider uppgrade customers with faster transport method

Every time I see josh post angry reply, I know there will be another delay Cheesy

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February 21, 2013, 12:25:50 AM
 #169

Pics from Kano's trip: http://198.245.60.111/Pix/

I guess I just don't understand this show at all.  Seems very much like CES to me, bring nothing, show nothing new, try and dress it up as nice as you can, but no substance of any sort.  Why didn't the ppl working at the Kansas City BFL shop just take those pictures months ago?

Cliffs:

-- many more fan-boxes
-- many power supplies
-- many devices that could theoretically be used in production of ASIC miners
-- a sweet airplane flight!

...but

-- no ASIC chips
-- no devices hashing at high speeds
-- no picture of chips, bumped or not
-- deafening silence on bumping facility  

 I would have thought the latest delay tactic would have been employed by now, but now even the delays have delays.  I am betting no ASICs by 3/20 in my betting thread ATM for anyone that is still confident BFL will ship and wants to bet.

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Clearfly
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February 21, 2013, 12:44:42 AM
 #170

Whilst BFL provide zero proof other than something that looks like somewhere where they made/make their FPGA products my BTC stays in my wallet.

Avalon have faired no better, they spent all Batch#1 money on making a few prototypes and now have Batch#2 funds to work with to fulfill outstanding orders.

Both have run roughshod over their consumer base with unrealistic timescales, poor communications/white lies and are playing high risk business strategies.

They are both running too close to the wire for me to invest yet, so whilst BTC is on the up anyone with any sense should keep their wallets firmly closed unless you can afford to loose out, only then are the potential gains worth anything.
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February 21, 2013, 12:49:34 AM
 #171

Whilst BFL provide zero proof other than something that looks like somewhere where they made/make their FPGA products my BTC stays in my wallet.

Avalon have faired no better, they spent all Batch#1 money on making a few prototypes and now have Batch#2 funds to work with to fulfill outstanding orders.

Both have run roughshod over their consumer base with unrealistic timescales, poor communications/white lies and are playing high risk business strategies.

They are both running too close to the wire for me to invest yet, so whilst BTC is on the up anyone with any sense should keep their wallets firmly closed unless you can afford to loose out, only then are the potential gains worth anything.
I was told in PM that they didn't have any problems with manufacturing.

Only with clearing customs because the CNY was on top of them.
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February 21, 2013, 12:54:47 AM
 #172

I think any vendor who actually gets ASICs into the hands of end users deserves recognition for pulling off a complex technical project.  Unfortunately, the various delays have combined in a manner which will make the units received by the average customer far less valuable which is going to leave a sour taste for many - especially when the market corrects.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 21, 2013, 12:55:22 AM
 #173

I was told in PM that they didn't have any problems with manufacturing.

Only with clearing customs because the CNY was on top of them.

And clearly you believe everything you're told..  Roll Eyes

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February 21, 2013, 12:55:36 AM
 #174

Whilst BFL provide zero proof other than something that looks like somewhere where they made/make their FPGA products my BTC stays in my wallet.

Avalon have faired no better, they spent all Batch#1 money on making a few prototypes and now have Batch#2 funds to work with to fulfill outstanding orders.

Both have run roughshod over their consumer base with unrealistic timescales, poor communications/white lies and are playing high risk business strategies.

They are both running too close to the wire for me to invest yet, so whilst BTC is on the up anyone with any sense should keep their wallets firmly closed unless you can afford to loose out, only then are the potential gains worth anything.
I was told in PM that they didn't have any problems with manufacturing.

Only with clearing customs because the CNY was on top of them.

Why don't they say that in public? Like i say 'POOR COMMUNICATIONS/WHITE LIES'.
I know of no business that secretly sends info out to their fanbois only.
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February 21, 2013, 12:58:23 AM
 #175

Whilst BFL provide zero proof other than something that looks like somewhere where they made/make their FPGA products my BTC stays in my wallet.

Avalon have faired no better, they spent all Batch#1 money on making a few prototypes and now have Batch#2 funds to work with to fulfill outstanding orders.

Both have run roughshod over their consumer base with unrealistic timescales, poor communications/white lies and are playing high risk business strategies.

They are both running too close to the wire for me to invest yet, so whilst BTC is on the up anyone with any sense should keep their wallets firmly closed unless you can afford to loose out, only then are the potential gains worth anything.
I was told in PM that they didn't have any problems with manufacturing.

Only with clearing customs because the CNY was on top of them.

Why don't they say that in public? Like i say 'POOR COMMUNICATIONS/WHITE LIES'.
I know of no business that secretly sends info out to their fanbois only.
It isn't a secret and I believe they have said that before.

The only problem is everyone prefers the other theory that they had manufacturing problems. I can say I was guilty of thinking that as well at some point.
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February 21, 2013, 01:09:12 AM
 #176

Whilst BFL provide zero proof other than something that looks like somewhere where they made/make their FPGA products my BTC stays in my wallet.

Avalon have faired no better, they spent all Batch#1 money on making a few prototypes and now have Batch#2 funds to work with to fulfill outstanding orders.

Both have run roughshod over their consumer base with unrealistic timescales, poor communications/white lies and are playing high risk business strategies.

They are both running too close to the wire for me to invest yet, so whilst BTC is on the up anyone with any sense should keep their wallets firmly closed unless you can afford to loose out, only then are the potential gains worth anything.
I was told in PM that they didn't have any problems with manufacturing.

Only with clearing customs because the CNY was on top of them.

Why don't they say that in public? Like i say 'POOR COMMUNICATIONS/WHITE LIES'.
I know of no business that secretly sends info out to their fanbois only.
It isn't a secret and I believe they have said that before.

The only problem is everyone prefers the other theory that they had manufacturing problems. I can say I was guilty of thinking that as well at some point.

Face it CNY is a convenient excuse. 297 units still not delivered.
The simple fact they are acting so suspiciously should raise eyebrows in anyone with an ounce of common sense.

Note. I have chosen to believe they have some integrity but little business sense and haven't run off with your money. Time will tell.
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February 21, 2013, 01:09:39 AM
 #177


Why don't they say that in public? Like i say 'POOR COMMUNICATIONS/WHITE LIES'.
I know of no business that secretly sends info out to their fanbois only.

Actually, there was a public post made saying that 53 units had been shipped and that if they didn't make it out of China prior to 2 February then they wouldn't arrive at their destination until after CNY.  That post implied that they wouldn't ship any more units until they knew everything had gone OK with those units (they said they'd used a different route, but didn't elaborate).

If they've been assembling the units themselves, there's no reason why assembly couldn't have continued throughout the holiday period.  Two Chinese vendors I use are resuming shipping today - the question is whether Avalon will ship any units they've assembled during the holiday period ASAP or whether they'll wait until they know the batch of 53 already shipped have been delivered without problems (because you really don't want to use that method with larger quantities until you know there are no problems with it).

Avalon have never regarded themselves as accountable to anyone other than their customers and have tended to communicate with them directly rather than through the forums.  It's a different business model than BFL's and you can't really compare the two.  A company of 22 people which has a dedicated customer service team (as BFL claims to have) should definitely be able to provide something better than "probably by June" in response to customer questions about when they'll receive their order - and should be capable of answering 500 emails if that's what it takes to keep customers informed (what do their customer service team at BFL actually do all day if they don't have time to respond to emails).

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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February 21, 2013, 01:20:51 AM
 #178

Pics from Kano's trip: http://198.245.60.111/Pix/

well at least we know they can sell cases

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February 21, 2013, 01:24:59 AM
 #179

Pics from Kano's trip: http://198.245.60.111/Pix/

well at least we know they can sell cases

Excuse me, but the technical term is "Boxes of Fans".
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February 21, 2013, 01:48:45 AM
 #180

So what happens when they can't ship out any actually products that actually work?

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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